Nano Sized Calcium Reactor?

[dtfleming]

thats why im gonna use it along with 2-part.

[TheUnfocusedOne]

so kalkwasser is used to raise the pH of a tank?

so does that mean if i wanted a safe system i could need both a Ca reactor and a Kalkwasser despenser?

guess whose gonna start buying lotto tickets like its his job?

[adamskit]

Mines setup so that my CA reactor cannot drop the tank PH below 8.07. The Kalk Reactor then kicks in at 8.07 and drives the PH up to no higher than 8.10. My Aquacontroller shuts down the CA reactor at night when PH levels drop naturally and the Kalk reactor kicks in to keep the PH at no lower than the 8.07 setpoint. I used to dose 2 part but I have a ton of SPS and it was getting super expensive.

[djpaul81]

so kalkwasser is used to raise the pH of a tank?

so does that mean if i wanted a safe system i could need both a Ca reactor and a Kalkwasser despenser?

guess whose gonna start buying lotto tickets like its his job?

 

I am in the same boat as well. I have a 40G with a clam and few sps. I have to dose 2 part twice a week. I dont have all the money in the world for a Ca reactor. I was going to try and dose kalk in my top off water and see how that goes. What to do what to do.

[filefish949]

im interested too

anything to make reefing as easy and matenience free as possible

 

 

well, i use an ACJr. and a Tom aqualift ofr Ca/Alk on my 7.5 gallon nano and my sps frags encrust in the 7-14 days they are in it for QT

 

ACJr. is about $250 Tom aqualift will run about $12 and a 1 year supply of MRS. wages pickeling lime is under $3.00 at walmart. i also added a float switch to make sure the tank does not overflow in case of prolonged ph or probe falure. that was ~ $35 so $300 and you are good to go, just mix up a gallon or 22 of kalkwasser every week or so

[TheUnfocusedOne]

well, i use an ACJr. and a Tom aqualift ofr Ca/Alk on my 7.5 gallon nano and my sps frags encrust in the 7-14 days they are in it for QT

 

ACJr. is about $250 Tom aqualift will run about $12 and a 1 year supply of MRS. wages pickeling lime is under $3.00 at walmart. i also added a float switch to make sure the tank does not overflow in case of prolonged ph or probe falure. that was ~ $35 so $300 and you are good to go, just mix up a gallon or 22 of kalkwasser every week or so

 

sounds like youve got things down

only one question

how does it work?

[filefish949]

so kalkwasser is used to raise the pH of a tank?

so does that mean if i wanted a safe system i could need both a Ca reactor and a Kalkwasser despenser?

guess whose gonna start buying lotto tickets like its his job?

 

you have a12 gallon aquapod.. there is no way you need it. but with a controller, and a dosing pump you can maintain stable pH in your tank and supliment your Ca/Alk

 

take a look at this graph on emy old 5 gallon SPS tank, ignore the spikes, tey are extranious, doe to being sampled in a 2 gallon sump

 

[imisky]

a Kalk "sturer" can be used to supply an SPS tank with its demand of Ca, Mg, and Alk, but it is not the safest way. its almost like an opposite of a Ca reactor in terms of the effluents pH (kalk at 12, and Ca reactor at 6.5). i have seen some SPS tanks run mainly on Kalk reactors, but those tanks in the long run usually start lacking trace elements and one of the main ones is strontium as kalk lacks in strontium compared to Ca,Mg, and Alk. As stated in a SPS heavy tank you'll need alot of evaporation to have the kalk reactor work effectively, but with high evap and large amounts of kalk dosing into your tank, you will most likely see an increase in pH (not the best idea for a nano/pico).

 

For a proper setup of Ca Reactor i wouldnt go without a pH controller, IMO you dont need 2 controllers(thats a waste of $$) 1 is already good enough to control the pH of the effluent coming out of the Ca Reactor (CR). I personally have yet to hear my pH controller shut off the CO2 tank so...so far thats pretty useless of $120 lol...but im sure it'll come in handy some day. When determining the effluent flow of your CR, its good to set it just when its about to become a constant stream but is breaking. This was told to me when i first setup my CR and has worked great for me. The flow rate of course is kept in check along with the bubbles per second coming out of my CR in which i keep at 1bps ( sometimes under) this way i keep my PH in my CR in the range of 6.6~6.8 i find that rowalith C+ melts best in that pH anything under and it'll become mush..and start clogging things up.

 

I run the effluent into a "cup" where my ph controller sits, and the cup is placed in the middle of my CPR aquafuge where i have chaeto. the great thing about it is the macro algae uses alot of the CO2 from the effluent..at least i think they do. i have measured the pH at the drain of my aquafuge and its somewhere from 7.5~7.8 before it hits my display tank again.

 

ACJr. is about $250 Tom aqualift will run about $12 and a 1 year supply of MRS. wages pickeling lime is under $3.00 at walmart. i also added a float switch to make sure the tank does not overflow in case of prolonged ph or probe falure. that was ~ $35 so $300 and you are good to go, just mix up a gallon or 22 of kalkwasser every week or so

 

not to make this into a debate or anything but with $300 invested, a Ca reactor + Co2 setup isnt all that far away from it.

[TheUnfocusedOne]

you have a12 gallon aquapod.. there is no way you need it. but with a controller, and a dosing pump you can maintain stable pH in your tank and supliment your Ca/Alk

 

take a look at this graph on emy old 5 gallon SPS tank, ignore the spikes, tey are extranious, doe to being sampled in a 2 gallon sump

 

 

 

i beg to differ about your statement that i wont need it

if i place large amounts of sps in my ap12 they will quickly deplete the limit Ca Mg and other elements in my water, much faster then they would in a larger tank

it seems more imperative to have some sort of controll in a tank of this size as a day with out dosing could cause the tank to completely crash

i hightly doubt regular water changes will accomplish the require replenishing of various elements

[filefish949]

i beg to differ about your statement that i wont need it

if i place large amounts of sps in my ap12 they will quickly deplete the limit Ca Mg and other elements in my water, much faster then they would in a larger tank

it seems more imperative to have some sort of controll in a tank of this size as a day with out dosing could cause the tank to completely crash

i hightly doubt regular water changes will accomplish the require replenishing of various elements

 

you missed what i am saying. the generly accepted break even point for a CA reactor is 100 gallon high demand tank. in such a case with a weekley demand of .5 meq/l the demand is 10 grams on carbonate, in which case an average reactor is running about 50% with a 12 gallon tank the demand is 1.2 grams, it would be hard to get that little out of the reactor. it is sort of like using a 2500HD to pull a jetski.

 

with kalkwasser, that same amount can be maintained with 500 ML in a 12 gallon tank. only with 1/2 the cost. do not forget media refills and Co2 reffills. not to mention the footprint of the reactor. add on top of that the complexity of a Ca reactor system and how quickley it could blow the peramiters on a 12 gallon tank to kingdom come. these things work best on systems with 40 gallon sumps. to be safe you would need to buy an ACJr. at least or better yet an ACIII to safegaurd your system. with an ACJr. all you add is a $12 aqualifter and a float switch and you are there. if you decide that the kalk is not enough with regular WC, then those parts are valuable components of your pending CA reactor and you have not wasted a penny, but I am quite certin you will do just fine with controlled limewater dosing

[TheUnfocusedOne]

you missed what i am saying. the generly accepted break even point for a CA reactor is 100 gallon high demand tank. in such a case with a weekley demand of .5 meq/l the demand is 10 grams on carbonate, in which case an average reactor is running about 50% with a 12 gallon tank the demand is 1.2 grams, it would be hard to get that little out of the reactor. it is sort of like using a 2500HD to pull a jetski.

 

with kalkwasser, that same amount can be maintained with 500 ML in a 12 gallon tank. only with 1/2 the cost. do not forget media refills and Co2 reffills. not to mention the footprint of the reactor. add on top of that the complexity of a Ca reactor system and how quickley it could blow the peramiters on a 12 gallon tank to kingdom come. these things work best on systems with 40 gallon sumps. to be safe you would need to buy an ACJr. at least or better yet an ACIII to safegaurd your system. with an ACJr. all you add is a $12 aqualifter and a float switch and you are there. if you decide that the kalk is not enough with regular WC, then those parts are valuable components of your pending CA reactor and you have not wasted a penny, but I am quite certin you will do just fine with controlled limewater dosing

 

noted, thanks for the advice file

[filefish949]

you hit the nail on the head almost all the way around

 

a Kalk "sturer" can be used to supply an SPS tank with its demand of Ca, Mg, and Alk, but it is not the safest way.

limewater has no Mg in it, and if you try to add mag flake or epsoms, it would percipitate imediatly due to th high pH

 

its almost like an opposite of a Ca reactor in terms of the effluents pH (kalk at 12, and Ca reactor at 6.5). i have seen some SPS tanks run mainly on Kalk reactors, but those tanks in the long run usually start lacking trace elements and one of the main ones is strontium as kalk lacks in strontium compared to Ca,Mg, and Alk. As stated in a SPS heavy tank you'll need alot of evaporation to have the kalk reactor work effectively, but with high evap and large amounts of kalk dosing into your tank, you will most likely see an increase in pH (not the best idea for a nano/pico).

 

For a proper setup of Ca Reactor i wouldnt go without a pH controller, IMO you dont need 2 controllers(thats a waste of $$) 1 is already good enough to control the pH of the effluent coming out of the Ca Reactor (CR). I personally have yet to hear my pH controller shut off the CO2 tank so...so far thats pretty useless of $120 lol...

now, this isn't me, it is from Danial knop, the guy that invented the ca reactor and Randy-holms-farly, julian sprung and a hoste of others are on the same page on this one.

 

if you are going to only have 1 ph probe, it needs to monitor the ph of the tank. a large pH dip is far more dangerous than any transitory shortage of alkilinity or calcium, the reccomended and tryed and treu methood is to buy a high quality Co2 regulator, and adjust for effluant kh.. a cheep $100 regulator will not give you consistant enough presure to maintain a constant buble rate, that is why people staretd using an effluant probe as a bandaid for a cheep regulater and or neidel valve.

but im sure it'll come in handy some day. When determining the effluent flow of your CR, its good to set it just when its about to become a constant stream but is breaking. This was told to me when i first setup my CR and has worked great for me. The flow rate of course is kept in check along with the bubbles per second coming out of my CR in which i keep at 1bps ( sometimes under) this way i keep my PH in my CR in the range of 6.6~6.8 i find that rowalith C+ melts best in that pH anything under and it'll become mush..and start clogging things up.

 

I run the effluent into a "cup" where my ph controller sits, and the cup is placed in the middle of my CPR aquafuge where i have chaeto. the great thing about it is the macro algae uses alot of the CO2 from the effluent..at least i think they do. i have measured the pH at the drain of my aquafuge and its somewhere from 7.5~7.8 before it hits my display tank again.

 

 

 

not to make this into a debate or anything but with $300 invested, a Ca reactor + Co2 setup isnt all that far away from it.

 

i am not sure howmuch less you are going to get a pinpoint regulator, but for $250 an ACJr. will controll your heater, lights, wave-timer, 0.01 pH accuracy, 0.01 temp accuracy, controll a coolig fan, shut off your lights if the tank gets to hot, and on and on and on

[imisky]

you hit the nail on the head almost all the way around

 

 

limewater has no Mg in it, and if you try to add mag flake or epsoms, it would percipitate imediatly due to th high pH

 

 

now, this isn't me, it is from Danial knop, the guy that invented the ca reactor and Randy-holms-farly, julian sprung and a hoste of others are on the same page on this one.

 

if you are going to only have 1 ph probe, it needs to monitor the ph of the tank. a large pH dip is far more dangerous than any transitory shortage of alkilinity or calcium, the reccomended and tryed and treu methood is to buy a high quality Co2 regulator, and adjust for effluant kh.. a cheep $100 regulator will not give you consistant enough presure to maintain a constant buble rate, that is why people staretd using an effluant probe as a bandaid for a cheep regulater and or neidel valve.

 

 

i am not sure howmuch less you are going to get a pinpoint regulator, but for $250 an ACJr. will controll your heater, lights, wave-timer, 0.01 pH accuracy, 0.01 temp accuracy, controll a coolig fan, shut off your lights if the tank gets to hot, and on and on and on

 

now when you say kalk has no Mg in it your wrong, as CaO that we can get our hands on arent 100% pure. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/chem.htm

now im not saying that 1% is going to make the worlds difference in Mg levels in your tank cause its not. and most likely stated by you its going to ppt out within a couple of seconds. So the part where im saying it'll maintain your Ca,Mg and Alk should really just be Ca and Alk, my bad.

 

Now let me ask you, how many people actually follow the 2 ph controller method...given people with nanos ( 40g setups) i have met, talked, and spoke to many and they have never suggested me to go with 2 ph controllers as most people i would imagine only use 1. and most of those people run there effluent at the range which i run them at without a problem. I can see where your comments come from when you state that the pH probe should run in the tank if you only have 1 and im not going to argue that you are wrong when you say that cause your not. The things i say are coming from personal experience and experience of other reefers i have chatted with about this exact topic when i was setting up my CR, and frankly they dont have a strong "science" backup as most personal experiences dont.

 

now i know what the true method of how to setup a CR is, and many follow it and many also only go by pH levels of the effluent both seem to work and if it didnt there would be alot of SPS tanks crashing by the second. ( not trying to sound arrogant )

 

and if you say that $300 isnt far from a working CR setup then i must be an exception cause my setup only costed roughly 300 and is working well for me. what i was getting at was that someone can get a working CR setup without spending over $500 and yet have it work for them. whether its using methods that dont stay true to the original/prefered/true method. But if it works for other reefers why cant it work for others.

[filefish949]

ok, but I am not sure how you got a cr setup including a ph controler for $300, if you are i am getting ripped off

 

the inside joke about MG depleation is that the biggest source of depleation is deficient salt mix, and that is very true. i can not say as to the impuritys in calciumhydroxide will cover biological usage as i do not know but I doubt it. I will say for sure that it will not be enough to repair a salt mix with 950ppm MG. you and i both understand this, but you know how internet myths get started, any significant amount of MG in a 11.5 pH solution is going to percipitate in short order and fall to the bottom, that is true of most all metals. this is why many "old school" greats in the hobby continue to just add calcium hydroxide to tap water and just make sure not to get any of the crust from the top or slurry from the botom in the tank, if youu are carefull about that, I am assured that tap water isquite safe ( I use RO/DI just to be safe) people will start thinking that some how kalkwaser will "purple-up" MG problems.and it won't this is a big deal, MG is one of the most pervesive problems the intermediat SPS keeper faces, and it is overlooked way to often

[imisky]

the amount of Mg in kalk is definitely not enough to keep up with the demand of any tank as its only 1% of the actual lime. but to bring this tread back on topic ( i think me and filefish949 took it abit off trail ).

 

i think the end decision depends on how much work TheUnfocusedOne wants to put into his tank. IMO a CR reactor is only really usefull when it comes to bigger tanks. with smaller nanos it really becomes risky to run. a slow kalk drip might even be more then enough if your systems demands are not very high.

[filefish949]

the amount of Mg in kalk is definitely not enough to keep up with the demand of any tank as its only 1% of the actual lime. but to bring this tread back on topic ( i think me and filefish949 took it abit off trail ).

 

i think the end decision depends on how much work TheUnfocusedOne wants to put into his tank. IMO a CR reactor is only really usefull when it comes to bigger tanks. with smaller nanos it really becomes risky to run. a slow kalk drip might even be more then enough if your systems demands are not very high.

 

wow, for being in 100% agreement, we sure argue a lot LOL, I love nano-reef

[imisky]

haha i never disagreed with the things you said just different points of view and i respect the things you said

[muaz]

wow great find!

 

 

alright someone please explain to me exactly how a ca reactor works then i can know exactly what i need to get

are you saying im going to need an external CO2 tank?

we have a sump with live rocks.So do we really need a cal reactor in our system.wat exactly a cal reactor can do....

[imisky]

a calcium reactor put in short replenishes the elements which are used up by corals when they grow. so inside the reactor you have a calcium based media and some people put in magnesium and with CO2 it lowers the pH in the reactor, lowers the water to an acidic level and melts the Ca/Mg and it goes back into your tank.

 

Ca reactors are not something every tank needs just those tanks with high demand on Ca,Mg, Alk

[Matty1124]

this seems really complex... i think ill do some more reading, and stick with the two part for now... thanks for all the info in here.. good reading

[TheUnfocusedOne]

this seems really complex... i think ill do some more reading, and stick with the two part for now... thanks for all the info in here.. good reading

 

agreed

i dont tihnk a calc reactor is the right way to go nemore

dosent seem to be cost effective

kalsewater sounds likea good idea

someone should figure out a way to does these elements cheaply for a nano!

 

i thnk im gonna send an email to the guy who won totm over on that reefcentral magazine a few months ago

the 8g sps tank with the 20g fuge

he had a reactor on his, said it was cheaper n easier then 2 part

maybe austrailians have thought og something we havent?

[Gwoardnog]

omeone should figure out a way to does these elements cheaply for a nano

peristaltic pump + bucket

 

1 tablespoon of pickling lime per gallon in the bucket. Stir. Do not disturb the crust that forms on the surface after it forms.

 

2 peristaltic pumps for your two part. Hook them up to gallon jugs. Actually you could probable tube them both into the same peristaltic pump.

[TheUnfocusedOne]

peristaltic pump + bucket

 

1 tablespoon of pickling lime per gallon in the bucket. Stir. Do not disturb the crust that forms on the surface after it forms.

 

2 peristaltic pumps for your two part. Hook them up to gallon jugs. Actually you could probable tube them both into the same peristaltic pump.

 

how do you regulate though?

[Gwoardnog]

they're really slow pumps. I've got mine set on 10 ml per hour on my 15g ( + - some in summer, or if the fan's on). Takes about a week to get right on target (I'm using one of those refurbished medical pumps). I've got a dual tubing set I can use for very low flow to get the 5 ml per day B-ionic stuff if I needed.

 

I had a setup on my 29g +10g sump that used a Maxijet 600 to pump it up 4 feet.. which was regulated by a float switch. There was apparently enough flow and a small enough amount to prevent snowing, and it didn't end up being too much of a jump.

 

You could use a non-adjustable peristaltic pump (if you needed really low addition rates) tied to a float switch(s) of course.

[jasonf08]

Nano Reactor

 

I own this reactor and have to say it is perfect for my 29 gallon BC SPS Tank.