RedSea Max's microbubbles

[ted01]

Hi,

I got a RedSea Max together with my wife on Superbowl Sunday. I got the tank setup on Wednesday night with Aragonite base w/ RedSea pro Salt water @ 1.023. I moved in 35lbs of live rocks. Some are from LFS and some are from my 12G Nanocube.

 

As i read from others post, i decided not to put in ceramic (bio filter) and carbon (chem filter), also removed the white fine mechanical filter patch, cut the black form block to 1/3 and place it o top of the skimmer pump, put somegeneric white filter floss on top of the block form block. I checked the pump ring is blue ring.

 

After running fora day, i am still having microbubbles coming out from retur pump, but decided to let it break-in. I moved my bubble and frogspawn into the tank on Sat night.

I am still having microbubbles today. I need help on what options I can have now. Any suggestions please... I turn off the skimmer tonite and no more bubbles coming out. The tank cleared in 2-3 hrs by now. So i believe i can isolate the issues to the skimmer, i guess.

 

thanks, Ted.

[plankton99]

I hate my RED SEA MIN just for that. I have done everything, spent hours on the phone with pinky at red sea and even emailed back and forth with the engineer in Germany (i think) He basically said that in order to get rid of the bubbles do not use sea water, so i switched the tank to red sea pro salt, and still MBubbles... DAMN! the only think i have not tried is extending the uplift tubes on the return pumps.

 

Let's face it, their design sucks for the skimmer.

[Urchinhead]

I have an RSM and I see this all the time. This can be caused by a few things.

 

First is your skimmer isn't broken in enough. If you have had it running less than about 2-3 weeks it isn't broken in.

 

Second you have nothing in the tank to skim. Odds are if your tank is still young then you don't have anything in the water to skim out. Give it time and bioload and you will.

 

Third you have your air hose aperture set wrong. Clamp it all the way down until the valve is closed then slowly open it until you see bubbles just reaching the top of the neck of the skimmer.

 

Fourth you don't have enough flow into the 3rd chamber and your pump(s) are cavitating. Check your water level in the 3rd chamber and make sure it is high enough. If it isn't then you need to track down what is keeping the proper level from being reached and fix that. For example raise the sponge up off the pump a bit and see if that helps.

 

Bottom line give it some time to break in and check your setup. It is a very well engineered tank and it will support almost all corals and inverts including SPS and clams. Take a look at my or StevieT's threads for examples. He has SPS and I have a clam.

 

For the person who just couldn't get the darn thing to work I would be asking RSM for a new skimmer as it seems yours is flawed.

 

Personally it still happens to me when I shut the skimmer completely down for maintenance and then start it up again. I get microbubbles for about an hour then its back to normal. This will not hurt your coral by the way. Sponges are a different story but then you shouldn't have sponges in your nano tank anyway unless you really know what you are doing.

 

Hope that helps.

 

UH

[streetjudge79]

Unfortunately, no matter what you do, you won't be able to stop it. Mines running 6 months now and I've tried EVERYTHING stated here to rid the tank of microbubbles. Not one thing worked except turning the skimmer off completely. I put dense foam in the chamber next to the skimmer and it slows it down some .

The Red Sea Max was a very poor design, it's just something you will have to live with.

[Hodge]

I agree with Urchin, you should give your tank some time before trying to skim. Once you are ready for skimming, give the skimmer a couple weeks to break in, then start calling Pinky to complain that the MB producing piece of sh!t doesn't work. If you are persistent enough, they will give you another piece of sh!t to waste your time with until you get fed up and buy something else that actually works (Tunze nano 9002).

 

Unfortunately you will have to modify the hood to make it fit.

PS. You will have to endure months of smack from the lucky few(probably RSM employees) who have a properly working skimmer (liars) as to why you can't seem to get your masterpiece of modern technology to work.

[StevieT]

I have to disagree with that. You may have gotten a bad skimmer street, most that run the RSM see their microbubbles go away after a few weeks, month tops.

 

Ted- do what UH has said. The bubbles will go away over time, you just need to break in the system. After you skimmer starts working and your sponges fill up with junk the bubbles will go down.

 

Very few microbubbles, running since August 2007:

 

 

Hodge-

 

I like the looks of that. I was worred how much the Tunze would stick up but by the looks of that, it's not too bad. I may have to go that route. I could see painting the skimmer cup black would mask it a bit more. Nicely done!

[adamskit]

Unfortunately, no matter what you do, you won't be able to stop it. Mines running 6 months now and I've tried EVERYTHING stated here to rid the tank of microbubbles. Not one thing worked except turning the skimmer off completely. I put dense foam in the chamber next to the skimmer and it slows it down some .

The Red Sea Max was a very poor design, it's just something you will have to live with.

 

 

I have had my RSM running for almost a year now and the skimmer works very well. I don't use any of the media or foam blocks from the original setup. I recently did a mod to the skimmer where I added a piece of 1/2" vinyl tubing to the skimmer exhast port to force all of the bubbles upwards. This worked really well along with drilling 6 small holes in the skimmer cover. Here is a diagram that I mocked up for you with the tubing attached. Hope this helps.

 

[StevieT]

Very intresting mod Adam. How does it help with the collection? Is your cup full of semi wet skimmate? Right now i get a thick paste in my tube but that is about it. Nothing like the collection I was getting running my remora on another tank.

 

DId you seal tube where you cut the hole? i also second the drilling a hole in the skimmer. Also shoving the air tube inside the cub helps with the sucking noise:

 

[adamskit]

Very intresting mod Adam. How does it help with the collection? Is your cup full of semi wet skimmate? Right now i get a thick paste in my tube but that is about it. Nothing like the collection I was getting running my remora on another tank.

 

DId you seal tube where you cut the hole? i also second the drilling a hole in the skimmer. Also shoving the air tube inside the cub helps with the sucking noise:

 

[/quote

 

I used to get the same thick paste before I did this mod. Now I get good foam production with tea like skimmate. The best part is I can clean the skimmer without having to break it in again. I didn't have to do any cutting with this mod. You just slip the tube on the skimmer outlet and put the other end up inside the skimmer. It's that easy. My tank is loaded with SPS and everything is doing really well so I assume the skimmer is doing it's job.

[StevieT]

Great! Thank you. I have some of this tubing and will give it a try tomorrow.

 

do you have a tank thread? i would love to see pictures of your 1 year old RSM.

[adamskit]

Great! Thank you. I have some of this tubing and will give it a try tomorrow.

 

do you have a tank thread? i would love to see pictures of your 1 year old RSM.

 

I have posted in the past but don't have a thread. I need to get one going. I have been following yours though and you done a great job! I will try and post some updated photos tonight as I am at work right now. I know your active all the time on the site. Let me know if you have any other questions on the mod.

[StevieT]

haha, i live here while I am at work! It is the slow season, without N-R id have to find work

 

Whenever you get those pics or your thread going let me know.

[joesmoe517]

not to get off topic or anything but ted, why did you decide to put a frogspawn and a bubble coral in a not even week old tank that hasn't cycled yet? Also, why are you running the skimmer on a tank with no bioload and that hasnt even gone through the cycle therefore prolonging the time it would take to cycle? I know these are beside the point but something to think about if you end up having problems with the corals. Maybe the live rock was fully cured or something you didn't mention but who knows.

Haha I love how plankton fell for the "you have microbubbles because you dont use our brand salt, please spend more money on our products and your problem will be solved" bit. classic.

[Hodge]

I recently did a mod to the skimmer where I added a piece of 1/2" vinyl tubing to the skimmer exhast port to force all of the bubbles upwards

 

It looks to me you have the tube on the skimmer pump inlet and then have the other end stuffed up into the second chamber of the skimmer. If this is the case, the skimmer pump is sucking out of that chamber, not blowing the bubbles upwards, creating a recirculation effect??

[adamskit]

Nope it's on the outlet blowing bubbles upward. I know the diagram is not the best but I didn't take photos of the mod since I was only experimenting. I had the idea because it appeared to me that the standard outlet tube blows bubbles across the bottom of the skimmer and some of those same bubbles escape outside the skimmer and into the tank. If you have a RSM give it a try it works really well.

[Urchinhead]

I caught that as well Joe but I was hoping that it was a case of the tank already being cycled or him using live rock/sand from a mature tank or something...

 

Streetjudge-

 

Sorry mate I definitely don't work for RSM! And my skimmer does work after a fashion. I get bubbles every time I shut it down and start it up again but after a few hours it goes away. And those who's skimmers don't work are the exception rather than the norm and should see about a replacement. RSM does have very good customer service (personal experience here) and should take care of you.

 

I think you will find that it is actually a well designed product from a German Engineering standpoint. What i mean by that is that it follows the classic Germanic philosophy of engineering which is everything fits nicely and neatly into its assigned space in a way that is damn near impossible for someone other than a gnome with double joints in all of his/her fingers held aloft and maneuvered about by a power center from the NBA to work on without barking their knuckles and engaging in several minutes of swearing.*

 

Seriously though as far as AIO's go it is a very well engineered and designed product that does allot right of of the box for someone like me who doesn't have the time or energy to run a more complex setup.

 

Is it all top of the line walk the dog, make coffee, give you a happy ending massage gear...? No. But $700 for a tank, dual 55w PC VHO lighting (yes I know they say T5 but it really isn't) with reflector, skimmer, powerheads, stand, etc is a pretty damn good deal when you think about it. In essence when you look at the features and capabilities, like being able to have SPS corals and Crocea clams with stock lighting etc, you really are getting the BMW of AIO's for Toyota Camery prices.

 

UH

 

Edit: Sorry. Forgot the *...

 

I found my son gleefully tossing his base ball the other day while chanting in the exact same tone and cadence God Damn It! I used when I was having to remove and clean the powerheads in my RSM. Sigh. That's my boy!

[mandelbloom]

Sweet mod, if anyone lese trys this let me know how it works out!!

[ted01]

Hi to all

First off, thanks for all the replies. Here is what i have done this morning.

a) turn off 1 return pump

extend the inlet of a running return pump

c) turn on the skimmer again

 

When i play with turning both return pump on, i can see water level in return pump compartment drop. It stay at the middle of the pump height. But turning 1 off and let 1 running, water level got back up to just below the black to cover at the top of the pump. Is that normal? According to Redseamax.com site, their document (pdf file) for debugging microbubble mention that water level should be just below the pump height. Is that true?

 

Well, the reason why i transfer the bubble and frogspawn to the new tank after running water for 24 hrs is because i have transfered old rock from my running nanocube 12G to the new tank and get 30 lbs of extra live rock the my LFS use in its display tank for more than a year. I am 20min away from them. I also transfered old salt water from the Nanocube to the new tank and mix with some new salt water. By doing so, my logic is that, the tank will be at least ahead of a new tank's cycle time except i don't have enogh bioload to cycle. So, i drop them in from the nanocube to keep a small bioload to get the tank going. Also, since moved all my rocks from the nanocube, i try to lower the cube's bioload at the same time.

 

I would agree that turning the skimmer on is a little bit early. But after running thru Friday and the weekend, i would expect the MB to slow down a little, at least. Also, my understanding is that it will take a few days to break in for the skimmer not a few weeks.

 

By the way,

a) how low is the water level at the sump? i try to adjust the air valve from totally off to totally open and bubbles/water level never get to the neck of the collection cup in the skimmer. Any idea?

Can someone define how much MB is normal? Or should be none? I stand 4.5 feet away from the tank, and won't see any. But when i get to 1-2 feet, i definitely see thm, not cloudy over my tank but enough to notice.

c) what is the size of the plastic hose that was use in the skimmer pump to point it upward? will a 6-8 inches length enough.

d) how to drill hole on the collection cup's cover and not craking it

 

After all, i still believe i pick the right choice (biocube 29G or RSM) in Superbowl Sunday w/ my wife. We have go thru bit of searching in internet and know this is going to be an issue but we thought if we do all the steps/mod that were told and we can escape from this MB at the beginning . At least, she like the overall look and design of the RSM

 

 

thanks.

[Urchinhead]

Looks like you found the problem mate. You are not getting enough water into chamber 3 and are getting pump cavitation. If you have any filter media in that chamber remove it and also remove the black sponge and any other filter media you have in chamber 1. Then turn both pumps on and see if the water drop occurs again. If it doesn't start adding stuff back in until it does and you will have found the problem.

 

UH

[StevieT]

the cup will not crack if you drill into it. Just use a normal drill bit and it will cut right through.

[Hodge]

Nope it's on the outlet blowing bubbles upward

 

If it's on the outlet it is attached to the top port of the skimmer pump then?? not on the inlet (bottom port) like you have shown??

 

And you have the hose stuffed up on the right hand side of the skimmer body(looking from the front of the tank) not the left side as shown in your sketch??

 

 

Urchinhead,

 

It's not a pump cavitation issue but rather the siphon effect of the circulation pumps on the open bottomed skimmer. Anyone having the Micro bubble issue can remove the electrical control panel and look into the back while everthing is running and see bubbles getting pulled from the skimmer bottom. If you turn one pump off, it only lowers the flow/siphon effect and less bubbles get pulled from the skimmer.

 

I do agree tho, overall the RSM is a good all in one.

[adamskit]

Hi Hodge. It's exactly as I have it in the diagram. The top port is actually the skimmer intake. The bottom port is the skimmer exhaust that has the venturi valve. You want to connect it to the bottom port with a piece of 1/2" tubing and route it up through the center of the skimmer pointing upwards.

[plankton99]

The real problem with the RSM is that the intake flow rate is very close the the output flow of the two return pumps. so when any filter material that slows the intake thus equalizes the return and creates bubbles. for example: when my narsus (sp?) snail crawls over the intake grate (even a small part of it) i get bubbles everywhere (like a jacuzzi) so the sensitivty ratio between intake and outout is too close. Another example, when i run one pump at a time, i get minimal microbubbles, so when i get completely frustrated with the micro bubbles i turn on my reefkeeper 2 to cycle A/B with one return on A and one on B so that both are not on at the same time.

 

RSM looks good but has some design flaws. I have had mine since June 2007 and so completely frustrated with it that i am selling it and getting a cadlights 39 pro system with undertank sump/refugium. DAMN Red Sea Max and their arrogant german engineering.

[stan-o]

I agree with Urchin, you should give your tank some time before trying to skim. Once you are ready for skimming, give the skimmer a couple weeks to break in, then start calling Pinky to complain that the MB producing piece of sh!t doesn't work. If you are persistent enough, they will give you another piece of sh!t to waste your time with until you get fed up and buy something else that actually works (Tunze nano 9002).

 

Unfortunately you will have to modify the hood to make it fit.

PS. You will have to endure months of smack from the lucky few(probably RSM employees) who have a properly working skimmer (liars) as to why you can't seem to get your masterpiece of modern technology to work.

 

 

I didn't have to modify my lid like this, the 9002 fit right in, you just have to raise the gate a little to drop the water in the rear a bit and lower the tunze with the supplied mount.

My RSM Reefers mod page

 

Stan-O

[Hodge]

It's exactly as I have it in the diagram. The top port is actually the skimmer intake. The bottom port is the skimmer exhaust that has the venturi valve. You want to connect it to the bottom port with a piece of 1/2" tubing and route it up through the center of the skimmer pointing upwards.

 

You are confused. The port on the bottom of the pump is the inlet and it sucks...guaranteed. Whatever this is doing (good or bad) is not what you think.