Neanderthalman's 40 Breeder

[neanderthalman]

Well.....sorry to disappoint.

 

My camera is AWOL. Turns out I left it behind at a Halloween party. Fortunately, a friend at work has it and should bring it in tomorrow.

 

Further bad news. After spending a few bucks and time building mounting brackets for the closed loop pump, as well as all the different materials for vibration dampening, it's still got a clearly audible hum. So much for careful planning.

 

Of course, why does it need to be elevated off the floor anyhow? Why mount it to the stand at all? It's not like it's a mobile cart, it's a 600lb box of water. So, I'm thinking I'm just going to let the pump sit on the floor and let the carpet/concrete deaden the sound. No hum. Anyone see me making a big mistake not mounting the pump to the stand? I figure I'll add single loops of extra hose to accommodate any movement, bumping by pets, etc.

 

Will post pics once my camera gets back to me.

[JustReef]

I always figured that people mounted it to the stand to minimize the head pressure on the pump. I doubt 3 feet in a straight line is going to kill your output. I think I'm going to do the same thing.

[neanderthalman]

Yeah, I know, I took my sweet ass time putting up pics. My bad.

 

The hard plumbing on the back of the tank is complete. The only remaining bit is down on the sump for the return plumbing. I can't do that until I get the baffles in place, because once it's on, I won't be able to get the sump out of the stand.

 

Speaking of baffles, I still haven't managed to get any blue acrylic yet. I haven't exactly tried very hard these past two weeks. Been busy. I did happen to find some 3/4" black vinyl hose while helping kenthenanoguy with his tank build last weekend, so now I only need to find some 1".

 

Regardless, here's some progress pics.

 

Plumbing on the rear.

 

 

The two 1" drains in the middle are for the herbie style overflow, and the third 1" pipe towards the right side is the closed loop intake. You can see the hose barb on the end of it. The return pipe is on the upper left corner, and the rest are all closed loop returns.

 

With the false floor in place, the bottom of the tank is now nearly flush with the wood trim

 

 

That's....really all I've got.

 

 

Edit - one additional thing - I've determined that the best place for the closed loop pump is actually on the floor. I do not know what the minimum suction head is for the pump, but it's entirely possible for a pump to create so much suction that the lowered pressure draws dissolved gases out of the water. This would create bubbles right in the pump intake, which would be ejected back into the tank. By placing the pump as far down as possible, it reduces this probability.

[xbwolfx]

looks good.

 

i would have gone with a black background to help conceal the bulkheads/strainers, but to each his own.

 

now get some water in that bad boy!

[GobyInPeace]

Your plumbing work is pretty slick! Looking forward to seeing more. Good luck!

[neanderthalman]

Thanks Goby - I've got the flexible hose installed as well now. I gave up and picked up some clear 1" hose. I'm going to wrap it in electrical tape to keep light out.

 

Still need blue acrylic. sigh.

[halberstram]

Where does the water go into the super squirt? Slick set up.

[neanderthalman]

Thanks halberstram. There's a 1" female threaded port on the side facing the glass. I have a 90 degree hose barb in it, facing straight down to the pump output. You can see the corner of it in the pic above....but not enough to ID it as a hose barb of course.

[Rocket]

Holy piping PVC man!

 

LOL without a schematic I can't tell where what goes into when. hehe

 

Nice tank though.

[neanderthalman]

Holy piping PVC man!

 

LOL without a schematic I can't tell where what goes into when. hehe

 

Nice tank though.

 

Yeah, I've been thinking about clarifying the pics....it's saturday, what the hell. I'm not doing anything....

 

 

 

 

 

OK, here goes.

 

The herbie drain pipes are in the middle highlighted in yellow. The bottom pipe will carry water to the sump, and the top pipe is just for backup.

 

The return from the sump, powered by a Pan-World 40PX, is on the left side of this image, and is highlighted in green.

 

The closed loop intake is highlighted in blue. Flexible hose will connect this to the intake of a Pan-World 200PS sitting on the floor behind the stand.

 

Flexible hose will connect to a hose barb (not visible) on the back of the OM squirt. The four outlets go to the four corners of the tank. The OM super squirt and related plumbing are all highlighted in red.

 

 

All of the valves are currently closed, but will be open during operation. They're only closed for isolation so I can remove the plumbing at the unions. The drain is throttled with an additional valve located inside the stand for easy access. I wanted a gate valve for throttling, but could not easily find one, so I used a ball valve and will have to deal with it. It's not like there's an active control system here, just a set point.

[Rocket]

sweet. Nice coloring!

 

Now for a question:

 

Power goes out, How do you not flood your house with overflow from the sump?

[$aint]

Now for a question:

 

Power goes out, How do you not flood your house with overflow from the sump?

 

Still need blue acrylic. sigh.

^ for the overflow i presume...

[Rocket]

I hope so...

 

I thought I read in his thread he is building a custom made sump. Maybe I've had a few too many beers to comprehend though. Those colors from his last photo are freaking wild. Oh and spell check for the win.

[$aint]

neanderthalman - nice choice with the super squirt... have you seen the 8-way they make? the plumbing for that would be insane.

[texass2323]

cool set up..

[neanderthalman]

Thanks everyone!

 

The blue acrylic is for a full-height overflow box in the middle. That'll prevent flooding during a power outage. I am no longer going to build a custom sump, because a 20H tank fits perfectly. I do need to pick up some clear acrylic for baffles, but I can do that anywhere that I get the blue stuff.

 

 

I saw the 8-way, and considered it..... The extra four outlets would go to bulkheads in the front corners of the bottom, and pipes up over the top to the front corners as well. Then, OM revolutions. The difference in price tag, however, drew the line for me.

[jmigchelbrink]

Edit - one additional thing - I've determined that the best place for the closed loop pump is actually on the floor. I do not know what the minimum suction head is for the pump, but it's entirely possible for a pump to create so much suction that the lowered pressure draws dissolved gases out of the water. This would create bubbles right in the pump intake, which would be ejected back into the tank. By placing the pump as far down as possible, it reduces this probability.

 

For the pump to pull water, it would have to be above the top water line. As long as it is not, the pressure before the pump will actually be higher than the tank pressure, and you do not need to worry about the water boiling. And even if the pump was above the water line, it would have to be pretty far up there.

 

The only disadvantage to putting it on the floor is the increased resistance from the walls of the pipe. There is no head loss because it is a closed loop. So as long as you minimize the number of elbow and valves, etc, placement will not matter that much.

 

So basically I'm saying I like your tank and your design, and can't wait to see some water in it!

[neanderthalman]

Yeah, you're right the sizes of pumps in the hobby are not going to cause cavitation without constricting the inlet.

 

However, you can and do get this sort of thing happening with pumps below the water level - Our station needed an, oh, eighty foot water tower to generate enough suction head for our emergency coolant injection pumps, because without it the suction head is so large it creates the type of cavitation I described. They are some badass pumps, mind you. My thoughts on the lower pump placement were based largely on this issue, though it really is irrelevant for hobby pump sizes....

 

 

 

 

 

Can't wait for water....I've toyed with the idea of keeping the drain/return lines closed and running a tap water test of just the closed loop, but it's pointless. I'd have to just drain the tank and dry it to install the overflow....then do another tap water test.

 

I should probably get around to ordering a RO/DI unit...hrm.

[annamarie421]

The plumbing to gallon ratio on this tank is insane!! Are you an engineer? It looks so clean and well thought out - nice job!!! Looking forward to seeing where you go with this one!

[neanderthalman]

Are you an engineer?

 

 

I didn't realize it was so apparent.

 

 

Thanks for the kind words!

[annamarie421]

I didn't realize it was so apparent.

Yep, it sure is!

[jmigchelbrink]

Jeebus that must be a huge pump. Do you have any pictures?

 

Yeah, you're right the sizes of pumps in the hobby are not going to cause cavitation without constricting the inlet.

 

However, you can and do get this sort of thing happening with pumps below the water level - Our station needed an, oh, eighty foot water tower to generate enough suction head for our emergency coolant injection pumps, because without it the suction head is so large it creates the type of cavitation I described. They are some badass pumps, mind you. My thoughts on the lower pump placement were based largely on this issue, though it really is irrelevant for hobby pump sizes....

 

 

 

 

 

Can't wait for water....I've toyed with the idea of keeping the drain/return lines closed and running a tap water test of just the closed loop, but it's pointless. I'd have to just drain the tank and dry it to install the overflow....then do another tap water test.

 

I should probably get around to ordering a RO/DI unit...hrm.

[neanderthalman]

Jeebus that must be a huge pump. Do you have any pictures?

 

Unfortunately no...it's a nuclear station, so they don't exactly like having a lot of pictures taken, if you get my meaning.

 

They're not our largest pumps by diameter, but they have to generate an incredible head to actually inject water into the pressurized cooling system. Our largest pumps have intakes that are eight feet in diameter. It's insane. Workers can walk around inside of them for inspections and maintenance.

[jmigchelbrink]

Wow. But yeah, that's a whole different animal than what we have to deal with, thank god.

[neanderthalman]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Water test tomorrow.