New Bright Yellow Cukes!!!

[OscarBeast]

I just picked up a couple of Colochirus robustus. These are very small bright yellow cukes of mild toxicity.

 

They are mostly filter feeding species that does well in the home aquarium and only grow to about 4 inches and reproduce often when healthy.

 

I picked up two of them and put them in my 10 gallon. One will get to move to my new 37-gallon and the other will be given/traded away in the near future (Tulsa/OKC area).

 

 

[jdsabin1]

Where did you learn these were 'mild' in toxicity? Everything I've read said when these go dead, your whole nano goes with it.

 

*shrug*

[OscarBeast]

This species or cukes in general or sea apples? Which have you read about or are you making a generalization?

 

Just about everything is toxic to some degree. Do you have any "zoos"? Like any creature the level of toxicity varies with each species. However it doesn't really matter for most of the common cukes unless something tries to eat them and they expell thier "guts" or get sucked into a powerhead.

 

The effect they have when they die is the same as an anemone death in your tank. A large hunk of rotting flesh that none of your detrivores will touch will play hell on your tank.

 

Anything relativly large that dies can pollute your tank and wipe it out. This includes fish, xenia, anemones, clams, large snails, even some macros going sexual can wipe a nano out. Anyway the point is that there are a lot of things that can wipe out your tank if something goes wrong. If you are not willing to take this risk, don't play with the nano-reefers.

 

Most of the information I got about cucumbers is from reading reefcentral and the information in the new book "Reef Invertebrates" by Anthony Calfo and Robert Fenner.

[Mnesarchus]

Those are very beautiful animals, I plan to keep one in my 2.5, let me know how it works out.

[jdsabin1]

It's not a secret that cucumbers are more toxic than other things people put in their nanos and it has a heck of a lot more to do with cucumbers than a 'hunk of rotting flesh' as you put it.

 

Many species of cucumbers have specialized tubules that can be expelled from their undersides as a form of defense, either by trapping the predator or in some cases being toxic to the predator. The last line of defense is to expel all of its internal organs, escape, and then regenerate the organs. Unfortunately, if either of these events occurs in the aquarium, it is toxic enough to kill everything in the tank.

 

Again, when I asked about these exact cukes at my lfs, the guy said they were indeed toxic enough to do a nasty job on everything else in the tank if they die. Comparing the yellow cuke to zoos is just not the same. You also talked about anenomes and that's another problem child in the world of nanos. Keeping cucumbers in a nano-reef is simply one of those that is on the 'higher risk' categories plain and simple. I ask again, where did you read about these specific cukes regarding their 'mild' toxicity? I've always thought they were neat too which is why I ask.

 

Hopefully they will live long, happy lives in your tank.

 

Good luck.

[OscarBeast]

Well, like I said they are tiny now but they do get up to 4" and are obligate zooplankton feeders. I wouldn't put one in my 2.5-gallon as it is not large enough to produce enough viable zooplankton without heavy supplemental feeding.

[tinyreef]

you'd probably have to incorporate a drip-feed method of plankton even with the 10g. i had a pink cuke in my 72g for a couple of years but it finally couldn't compete (i.e. I couldn't effectively feed it X) ) with an outbreak of vermetid snails (which i still have).

 

keep a careful eye on the body mass (girth) of the cuke. also it's ability to heal is another critical factor. my cuke was able to heal from an occasional nip from the fishes and regenerate its feeder branches (whatever they're called). toward the last 6 mos. of its life i noticed an impaired ability to do this. i finally put it down instead of waiting for it to die. :*(

 

very kewl animals though. always got a "10" on the gross out factor!

[OscarBeast]

Most of the information I got about cucumbers is from reading reefcentral and the information in the new book "Reef Invertebrates" by Anthony Calfo and Robert Fenner.

 

Already stated this... But if you want an exact quote, "Other less toxic and arguable hardier Cucumarid species do presently exist in the aquarium trade. The Yellow (Colochirus robustus) and the Pink and Yellow (Pentacta ancepts if smooth, or Colochirus if spiny) sea cucumbers are commonly imported and fare reasonable well to very well in captivity." (Reef Invertebrates, Calfo & Fenner, p. 309-310)

 

They do go on into detail about the toxins etc. It is a very good section and they go on to debunk the idea that all cucumbers are highly toxic and wipe out tanks. Yes, there are very toxic "Holothuroids" but this is not one of the more toxic species. And by reading this book and understanding how the toxins in these actually do work, you would find that the Holothruin (cucumber toxin) is not deadly except to the fish and some invertebrates in the tank. This is because it kills by hemolyzing red blood corpuscles (p.312). Of couse this doesn't mean that if one were to kill your fish that the death of your fish wouldn't cause a chain reaction that could wipe out a small tank.

 

It's not a secret that cucumbers are more toxic than other things people put in their nanos and it has a heck of a lot more to do with cucumbers than a 'hunk of rotting flesh' as you put it.

I disagree. "Holutherians can indeed wipe out a tank of fishes and perhaps some invertebrates under some circustances. This is not because it is toxic, however, or exuded some mysterious poison, rather because of the burden than any rotting corpse does to a relatively small volume of aquarium water." (Reef Intvertebrates Calfo & Fenner p.311)

 

And, "Aside from these Pseudocolochirus and like species, most sea cucumbers are less toxic than many popular fishes, corals or other invertebrates." (Reef Intvertebrates Calfo & Fenner p.310)

 

And like I said, they are getting moved soon. One gets given away, the other goes into a 37-gallon which I intend to install a large sump under (but may not), which is not quite a nano.

 

BTW... I love this book. I would have never even thought about buying these guys without reading this first.

 

Yea, tiny, they aren't staying in my 10-gallon. One gets to be traded or given away, the other gets to play in my 37-gallon soon.

[jdsabin1]

Well I guess it boils down to which black and white you want to believe then doesn't it?

 

Personally I normally choose to believe reef keepers who have walked the talk. According to many people who speak from personal experience, the cuke died and so did several other things in their tank. Who cares if it's 'just' fish anyway, it's all hard earned money down the drain no matter how you look at it.

 

Hopefully these are less toxic or whatever and they do fine.

 

*shrug*

[AbSoluTc]

and the other will be given/traded away in the near future

 

 

Oscar:

 

If your up for trading, let me know. I would be intrested in one of these guys. Getting stuff that looks cool down here, is near impossible.

 

Thanks,

Kris

[OscarBeast]

Sure, you can do a search on RC about cukes and find that one person will say a cuke wiped out their tank and another will say that they have had cukes die and nothing happens at all...

 

Problem is that something else that wipes out the entire tank will also kill your cukes; however people are quick to blame the cuke. How do you know that instead of the cuke died and so did several other things, that several other things died and so did the cuke? Obviously if they knew the cuke died and it was the first thing to die, they why wouldn't they remove it before it contaminated the tank? The same things that kill your other animals will probably kill your cukes as well.

 

So to be honest I have no doubt in my mind that people have had total tank crashes that have had cukes. People have total tank crashes without them as well. Did a transient cuke jump in their tank and kill everything and jump back out? I doubt that the common aquarist has the equipment to test for the levels of holothurians in their tank. On top of that, the toxin has been proven to be only toxic to fish and the occasional invert. The toxin itself can't wipe out your corals. It would be fairly fallacious to blame something without knowing, but that is what tends to happen with many aquarists.

 

Even if someone wanted to keep a cuke that was highly toxic, if placed in a tank where it wouldn't get chopped up by the powerheads or a fish would try to eat it, there shouldn't be a problem. I care about my fish, however both this tank and my future tank will not have animals that will eat the cuke nor will there be any open powerheads and should not present any issues at all. I have taken into consideration the animals in my tank and have provided the appropriate environment for them.

 

Well I guess it boils down to which black and white you want to believe then doesn't it?

It sure does. People can be reef'tards or they can learn to research and find factual information about the animals they keep. Some people choose to be reef'tards and ignore the research available to them and always will.

 

The factual information is out there, but I can’t make you believe it if you simply choose not to. If you think they are “bad”, don’t keep them and you won’t have to worry about it.

[OscarBeast]

AbSoluTc, the first one I will be trading off will be locally. If the other in my 37 does well and splits for me, I will keep you in mind.

[jdsabin1]

Originally posted by OscarBeast

blahblahblahblah

 

The factual information is out there, but I can’t make you believe it if you simply choose not to.  If you think they are “bad”, don’t keep them and you won’t have to worry about it.

 

That's my whole point. I have no intention of keeping them.

 

You may want to stop being so defensive when someone questions one of your posts though.

 

Feel free to write another 1,000 word rebuttal if you'd like. I'm done with this.

[OscarBeast]

You may want to stop being so defensive when someone questions one of your posts though.

Why whould I not defend my post when someone questions it?

[jdsabin1]

Defending a post is one thing, throwing names and jabs around is another.

 

Heaven forbid anyone questions your vast amount of expertise in this hobby.

 

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

As a sidenote, if you need to continue this, please PM me. Others don't need to waste their time wading through this.

[AbSoluTc]

Originally posted by OscarBeast

AbSoluTc, the first one I will be trading off will be locally.  If the other in my 37 does well and splits for me, I will keep you in mind.

 

Thank You

[OscarBeast]

Originally posted by jdsabin1

Defending a post is one thing, throwing names and jabs around is another.  

 

Heaven forbid anyone questions your vast amount of expertise in this hobby.  

 

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

As a sidenote, if you need to continue this, please PM me. Others don't need to waste their time wading through this.

 

There wouldn't be much point in trying to PM someone useful information when they simply choose not to listen. The information here would hardly be a waste for someone to wade through, except for maybe you.

[OscarBeast]

NP Ab.

[jdsabin1]

I didn't choose NOT to listen actually. With that said, simply because you're quoting from a book you have doesn't mean we all have to take that as gospel. Do you believe everything you read?

 

You enjoy your bright yellow cukes. Next time you post I'll know to just reply 'Ooooh!' or 'Aaaahh!' and move on. 8)

[AbSoluTc]

Now, now children!

[OscarBeast]

Research the toxin for yourself (try Google) or go on RC like I said. The information is out there on the web as well.

 

Of course I don't believe everything I read. Books are not the only thing I have read, but the ones from good authors are usually a valuable collection of information. Evaluating information given in books and the credibility of the author(s) is something one has to do for themselves. An obscene amount of resources were used in creating the book that I quoted and they (Calfo & Fenner) are well known and respected authors.

 

Perhaps you have information to discredit them or this information and that it was the reasoning behind your disregard or doubt of this information?

 

Perhaps information like this (opinions) is more of your style: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=209875

 

Or maybe the guy at the LFS is more of where you like to get your information you think of as "gospel"?

 

Anyway, weren't you done? LOL

[deacon hemp]

I like those oscar,my lfs had them a while back and i did everything in my power not to buy one cause i was scared,but i might have to try one now!

[jdsabin1]

Nah I can keep going as long as you can. My reply was designed as nothing more than common courtesy as others normally don't care to engage themselves in watching a ####ing contest on a public forum.

 

Since you insist on carrying on publicly however......

 

Let me bottomline it for you since you seem to have problems with the 'K.I.S.S.' concept.

 

-------------------

Good luck with your sea cucumbers. I hope they don't create problems for you. Others don't want to take the chance simply because you did.

-------------------

 

Later!

[OscarBeast]

You know, the title of my thread wasn't EVERYONE RUN OUT AND BUY THESE, nor was that the point. I was showing off some eye candy and a little information about them.

 

I simply provided you with the information you asked for, but were not satisfied with and continued to argue with without anything to actually back your argument. You have not been able to provide relevant credible information nor have you been able to address any points made, but please continue to make ignorant posts if you wish as this has what has created your "####ing" match. However I am sure someone like you will be satisfied to post just because “I can keep going as long as you can”.

 

If you will like to actually discuss cukes like an intelligent individual, let me know.

[jdsabin1]

Originally posted by jdsabin1

Many species of cucumbers have specialized tubules that can be expelled from their undersides as a form of defense, either by trapping the predator or in some cases being toxic to the predator. The last line of defense is to expel all of its internal organs, escape, and then regenerate the organs. Unfortunately, if either of these events occurs in the aquarium, it is toxic enough to kill everything in the tank.  

 

This was not intelligent enough for you? You were on your defensive horse the minute I asked about their so called 'mild toxicity'. Sort of like a 'how dare you challenge me!' attitude.

 

I say with fervor -> Whatever pal.