Mandrian Police! you might want to read this....

[Simbo18]

LOL, your maroon clown sounds a lot like my sebae clown. He's not a very good host for his 12" carpet anemone. I feed my anemone almost every other night a piece of shrimp (depends on when he poops as to when I feed him) and the stupid clown will snatch the shrimp while darting behind the rocks. The thing that really bugs me is that two seconds after I see him dart back there with a whole piece of eat able shrimp he comes back out and says FEED ME!!!!! Sometimes I'll even yell at him and my parents think someone's in my room.... =) lol. Oh well, that's what happens when you buy cyanide caught fish.

LOL, how do I support my habbit?? Well first, I don't take my girl friend anywhere special. Who cares if she dumps me.... LOL Second, I work any jobs that my parents' friends might offer me. Like my biggest job is helping my mom's best friend move. So far I've gotten $100 off of that, bought my the PC dual 36 watt kit in my room right now..... =) And I work a winter job on a tree farm. I also DIY EVERYTHING, except the aquariums which I will attempt one day. I also don't make the pumps....... : Wish I could those things are quite expensive. And there's also those tight times that I work "my corner" on the street..... LOL my girlfriend hates that I have to whoe to support reefing. But that's about it, besides my dad buying me PVC pipe and small stuff like that.

 

Luke

[Simbo18]

I would photoshop it if I knew how... right now I'm too busy designing my tank setup and learing how to program to make a wave maker....

 

Luke

Programing is a pain in the Ace.

[Billdemart]

Originally posted by jflysmooth

my god.  someone kill this man before he kills innocent fish.

 

Kill this man? That makes sense. :

[Simbo18]

Billdemart, are you trying to say I'm not a MAN...... =) LOL. I bet I'm bigger than you.....

 

Luke

[maroonclown]

Simbo18,

I also yell at my clown. It is almost like yellimg at a 3 year old, so both of them never listen!

[maroonclown]

hey, Billdemart, back off of Simbo18. Anyway, who cares if a $10 mandarin is killed? My friend Sarah reminded me of that. Plus, she gave me the advice of failure=lesson=learning=success. So if you kill 3 mandarins before you figure out the best way to keep them, you learn something. Then again, I'm taking advice from someone that doesn't keep any aquariums ( but she did get better grades than me, so I'd listen to her).

[Simbo18]

But I don't WANT to kill anything even for some more knowledge. I want to do it sucessfully..... the first time. I think I might have a back up plan for this whole system. If I see that the mandrains don't get along or are starving I will put them in my 75 gal.

 

At the moment I have a mantis in the 75 gal. but my girl friend ablsolutely loves it. She's also affraid of it at the same time. LOL, last night I gave her a ss316 rod to stick infront of the mantis. There are tons of dents in it now becuase of how long she would hold it infront of the mantis. Anyway, I just have to talk her parents and her into takeing it.....

 

Once the mantis is out of there I will put tons of live rock in and have the tank settle down. I'm not sure how much live rock will fit but I will over order and give some of it away to friends. TBS live rock is the best so I think I'll order that. That way I'll have a back up tank for the mandrians.

 

Would this be more suitable for the people who disagree??

 

Luke

[Panic]

Hmmm, that's the same kind of attitude the Russians had when they tried to figure out how to deploy troops from a plane without parachutes... they killed hundreds of men sending them off the back ramp of a low flying aircraft experimenting with different size wingsuits, snow-skis, drogues etc. when it has been long known that a human can't even handle a slow-speed impact.

 

I'm thankful for the experienced people on the forum who give good advice because they stop us from making the same mistakes.

 

Going against the advice of experienced reefers is silly unless you have a very unique solution which you have researched well and have discussed with said experienced people.

[Panic]

sorry Simbo, I was refering to maroonclown's "so what?" comment, I was still typing when you posted.

 

Glad you have a backup plan, but how'd you know if they're starving?

[Simbo18]

I've seen the mandrians in the fish store. They look horrible. Their stomachs are sucked all the way in except for this "bone" or "cartilage" thing that bends in a arch, verticly. It keeps the stomach from pressing up against the body. It's the same with a lawnmower blenny if you've ever seen a lawnmower that isn't getting enough to eat.

 

I don't know if that explination helps at all.... but I tried. X)

[Billdemart]

Originally posted by Simbo18

Billdemart, are you trying to say I'm not a MAN...... =)  LOL.  I bet I'm bigger than you.....    

 

Luke

 

Sorry the emphasis was perhaps lost in the bits and bytes. I was disagreeing with what the guy said. He said you should be killed for putting some fish in a non-optimal setting.

 

I was being facetious. Sarcastic. I thought it was ridiculous to say something like that guy did.

 

Anyway I seriously doubt you are bigger than me, although I'm not sure what that matters?

[Billdemart]

Originally posted by maroonclown

hey, Billdemart, back off of Simbo18.  Anyway, who cares if a $10 mandarin is killed?  My friend Sarah reminded me of that.  Plus, she gave me the advice of failure=lesson=learning=success.  So if you kill 3 mandarins before you figure out the best way to keep them, you learn something.  Then again, I'm taking advice from someone that doesn't keep any aquariums ( but she did get better grades than me, so I'd listen to her).

 

Maroon clown I wasn't bagging Simbo. Pay attention please.

[Simbo18]

LOL, sorry about the miscommunication billdemart. We both thought you were talking bad about me and he was just watching out for me. Don't take it personally. We youngins have to watch out for each other.... And disregard the "I bet I'm bigger than you" remark. It was somthing stupid I said..... don't really know why I did it but I was trying to defend myself?? LOL I didn't know how to respond. I'm sure you could call it a immature remark. So, is everyone cool??

 

Luke

[Simbo18]

So, dose everyone disagree or agree with my backup plan??

 

luke

[maroonclown]

Your back-up plan is good. I would just be afraid of "losing" a fish as small as a dragonet in a 75. And I have to clear up the comment of killing a few fish to "learn". What I ment was some fish don't do well ( again, I'll use the moorish idols as an example), and you might need to go through several of them before one survives.

[Simbo18]

I understand what your saying maroon clown but mandrians aren't as delicate as a moorish idol. If my pod culture would take off (sitting idol now):*( I would have a better chance of sucess the first time around with the mandrians. I think I might move my pod culture in to a 10 gal. like on this site. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb...03/breeder2.htm I don't quite know the whole cycle length of copepod breeding but who knows a few weeks from now I might see more pods. I now have them in a 2 litter bottle.

 

But mandrians aren't all that much of a hit or miss creature. They have a OK shipping rate. The only thing hit or miss about them is if they will take frozen or even flake food.

 

LOL, I know what you mean about loseing a mandrian in such a large tank. I would obiously have to take every rock out to get it (or them) back..... a price I'm willing to pay for such an amazing fish.

 

Luke

[supernip]

A mandarin can be kept in a small tank. However, it is a HUGE PITA. So I recommend you not getting one, but if you HAVE to, I'll kinda try to help you out, experience allowing of course.

 

First, here's my experience. I don't keep mandarins, but I do keep fingered dragonets. They're dragonets as well and are just as hard to keep. My set up includes a 40gal main tank w/ a 10 sump. I have about 100 lb of rock altogether and a fair amount of macro. When I first got my fishes, I bought a pair because I couldn't afford the trio. Now, I have a ton of pod piles and my sump has a fair amount of pods. However, my pod population has been wiped out with a few hundred baby pods here and there. And that's a very small amount of pods. However, I do feed live brine about 5x a day. I made sure to get fishes that took brine. They also take frozen brine but not as much. I acclimated them by at first letting them eat pods, then adding live/frozen brine to the mix and gradually increased my dosage of frozen. My fishes are rather plump but I am still worried about them. Their tummies are semiflat-plump to plump and fluctuate between the two. I have noticed that you must feed them small portions numerous times a day; this schedule is much more effective than feeding large portions. I also have a variety of food including mysis, live brine, frozen brine, formula one and bioplankton that I feed. The livebrine I have to get every other day to ensure freshness. It can get quite costly. I use a dropper or turkey baster and shoot the food down towards the dragonet so he sees it. Although they will occasionally swim into the water surface to get the food, they much rather remain on the rocks. Overtime, I slowly put the baster closer to the fish as it learned to trust me. I also soak a portion of the food food in selcon before feeding. My fishes have been with me a little over 3 months and there isnt one day I'm not worried about their health. Although I spend an average of an hour a day just feeding them and CLOSELY monitoring them, I have decided to get more rock and a pod culture pack to boost my levels. I will also look into culturing live mysis as well.

 

Now, my advice to you. Don't buy a pair of mandarins. If you must have a mandarin, one will be fine. Since you want a total of 30 gals, I suggest you get a 20L and section off about 1/4 of it, as a designated pod hangout. Put in a lot of rock and a PH behind it facing the main area so pods will fly into the main area. Also, you might want the additional 10gal sump to go above the sump, this way you can get more pod transfer into the tank. Add in selcon-soaked nori for the pods and have a lot of liverock for the pod. I recommend you getting at least 2lb/gal. Follow my feeding instructions and you should have a lot less problem. These fishes are for the hobbyist who has a lot of time, dedication and to a certain extent-money. They're also for the more advanced aquarist and one with patience. I myself still have ALOT to learn. I wish you luck in keeping your fishes but do hope you decide to change your mind. If you still desire a dragonet, please consider a red scooter blenny instead. They are still hard to keep but a little easier than mandarins. If you have anymore questions or anyone has Sh*t to say to me, I welcome it.

 

Here's so you all don't think I'm bulling. This is a picture of my fingered (trojan) Dragonet.

[Simbo18]

Well, I don't want 2lbs. of rock per gal, that's why I have two fuges. There will still be more live rock with all three tanks than the one 20 gal. I have all of that figured. I just need my pod culture to take off. I also need to get my backup tank in order.

 

LOL, I guess it's about time I tell everyone why I want TWO mandrians. If it's not obvious enough. I want them to breed. I don't care if the eggs hatch but just to have them breed would be cool enough. Now, it would be awesome to have the babbies except for the fact of "who am I going to give them to"? I know some people would like to buy captive raised mandrians but I just don't know if I'm capable of takeing orders...... ??? LOL Anyway, that's why I want two mandrians.

 

Now, I also want to set up such a small tank not to risk the lives of the prescious animals but to prove all of you wrong. Now, I might not suceed but I am takeing every precausion. LOL, I hate to think of what I might be spending on this tank (just in the set up). I'm guessing around $1000. Man, that's a lot of money..... for two mandrians..... LOL. But it's what I want to do.

 

Luke

Thanx everyone for putting up with my ignorance.

[maroonclown]

Simbo18,

If your mandarins breed and the babies make it, I'll buy some from you. I think, I'll join you in proving these guys wrong, and I'll get another one when I get my new tank for my birthday. Supernip, you are just about the only person other than Simbo18 and myself that are "openminded enough" enough to do this. No offense to anyone, but, we live in an openminded society, so why can't we be openminded about refkeeping? Simbo18, you live in South Carolina, right? Do you have accsess to the ocean? If you do, just get pretty far (about a mile or two) out to sea, then troll a plankton net, and use the plankton to feed them. I would buy an unused 55 gallon drum for storage. I read about this in John Tullock's The Natural Reef Aquarium. It might be worth it. Let me know if it works.

[Simbo18]

I already have phytoplankotn "nanochloropsis". I also have rotifers going too so I have the two major plankton. And yes, I live 10 mins. away from the washout (my surfing spot). But I don't have boat or net that's like 53 microns..... so I can't trolly for plankton. I probably would if I had that.

 

I'm right there with you on the openminded society, maroon clown. At one time (befor I started reefing, 6 months ago) there was the imposibility of keeping sps, am I right?? No one thought to try it except a few "crazy people" if you like to look at us like that. Humans are programed to excel and that's what I plan to do. Sure, there is going to be "more" work involved to keep these two mandrians alive. I know that. But if I have the time why not put it to use makeing something thought impossible, POSSIBLE?? I am going to do this so why not put your criticism aside and help me through this. Exmple, if you see a article about mandrians let me know. I know the majoraty of you don't agree with me but can't you see that I want only what's best for these fish?? I'm trying my hardest to make this possible for future refrences.....

 

Luke

[Simbo18]

Ok, just thought up another question. I'm going to have one 175 watt MH supplimented with two 36 watt PC's (actinics). So, the first day that I add the mandrians should I just run the actinics and move up to the MH?? I know that a lot of fish can be sensitive when it comes to lighting. So, what do you think??

 

Luke

[supernip]

 

Maroon- Thanks

 

Simbo: Let's clear some crap up shall we?

 

First off, it's not fair that you are assuming everyone is rather close-minded (same for you maroon) because we all nano-reef.

 

Secondly, an acropora has way less requirements than a mandarin.

 

thirdly, Get realistic won't you? Shunning the advice of more experience people reflects on your own closemindedness. How old are you? 16? How are you gonna care for such a fish during school? Finals, studying, social life, work, where are you gonna find time for the fish? And to breed them? I can't help but wanna curse at you. The fishes are hard enough to keep as it is and here you think you can breed them? There are probably marine biologist and breeders elsewhere who have tons of funding and can barely keep this fish alive. So how are you gonna surpass all of them and revolutionize this hobby?

 

fourth, Read my post over and use some of my advice. You didn't even read it correctly and figred I wanted you to pile tons of roc into your main tank. If you really wanted to breed the mandarins, the aesthetic value of the tank is of no object

 

fifth, We are not being close minded jackasses who forbid you to get a mandarin. We are simply stating the facts. All we want to do is protect the earth a lil by warning people of the hardships of mandarin husbandry. There are a ton of people like you out there who think they are the exception to the rule and end up killing a buttload of fish before they realize they can't commit. It is people like you that fuel the importers and are depleting the ocean of these beauties.

 

Finally, try one first and if it works out for 6th months, go ahead and get the second. If you succeed, we applaud you. If not, I think you owe us an apology or at least admit fault. And, no I doubt you need to acclimate them to your halides. they'll probably hide in a cave when first introduced to your tank and eventually come out.

 

[Simbo18]

When did I every use the phrase "closed minded jackasses"??

 

First off, you are not close minded because you nano-reef?? I don't see how those two relate in any way.

 

Second, the acropora's are completely different, I agree. But at one time they were hard to keep just like the mandrian is today.

 

Third, I have not shuned any advice that is not worth trying. Like now, I am going to use your advice to keep just one mandrian until I see that I might have enough pods for two. If I don't see the possibility then I won't try two.

 

Fourth, you did say to add rock, did you not. "Put in a lot of rock and a PH behind it facing the main area so pods will fly into the main area." "I recommend you getting at least 2lb/gal."

 

Now, these are your words, right, and are you trying to tell me that they are not saying to add rock??

 

Fifth, just think about the possibility of this working. If I were to actually get these fish to breed there would be more people attempting (also suceeding) to breed these fish. Just like the clowns today. There really isn't too much of a import for clowns anymore. Don't you people understand how much I want to suceed.

 

LOL, don't worry about me acepting defeat. I will be glade to, well not glade but not too proud to. You don't need to applaud me. Just take a baby mandrian off my hands.... =) I just hope this works.

 

Do you think that the powerhead behind that devider will really help?? I mean how many times do you see pods "swimming". Maybe every once and a while at night. I was thinking that I would just blast the front of the glass (fuge's glass) with a turkey baister every day or so. that way there would be pods in the water column and they would head to the main tank.

 

Let me just defend myself real quick like........

 

Finals- only happen at the last week of school (I don't even need to study at home due to the reviews we have a week befor).

 

Studying- who needs it at my school. We do enough of it in class that there really isn't anything left to go over at home. Except a few memorization things we have during a school year. Those only take like 20 min. of my day.

 

Social life- That's why we have friends with cars that come over..... LOL

 

Work- I wish I could get a job:*(

 

School- I leave very early and get back home at 2:30. I have the rest of the day to work with the fish. Except for the 20 min. I take to do any homework that I might get (not usually) and about 1 hour of chores. I also rarely have projects which don't take long at all due to the work I do at school on them.

 

Luke

[lakshwadeep]

I have heard of something called a "pod pile." It consists of piling some rocks and sticking some bits of shrimp between them. This fgives a great habitat for pods to eat & reproduce quickly, giving foods for the mandarins. I am currently making a steady population of pods for the mandarin that I will get in about 6 months at the most using two "pod piles."

[Simbo18]

I've seen what mandrains can do to a pod population and pod piles just wont cut it. But thanx for the info.

 

Luke