does anyone still run their bc with bioballs?

[dshnarw]

dshnarw, actually my above post does my squat considering the title of the tread is asking if anybody is stilll using the Bioballs and if it causes nitrates.. and i answered both question exactly that... Yes i do have bioballs in and NO, i have 0 nitrates.. and yes i have Purigen in chamber 1.... works very well

 

At no point did your post(s) give information on whether bioballs produce nitrates - you have only shown proof that purigen works as advertised. Do the bioballs in your tank produce nitrates? You don't know, because you've added a chemical filtration media to remove any nitrates that the bioballs may have produced.

 

 

 

Here's a quote from JT Enterprises (a manufacturer/distributor of bioballs):

Wholesale BioBalls &Bulkhead Fittings

 

This is the home of Central Florida manufacturerJT Enterprises. We are a wholesale distributor of bioballs & ABS bulkhead fittings, which are used in a diverse range of applications that transcend many industries. Bio balls are used in a wide spectrum of water filtration applications but primarily as a vehicle to facilitate the growth of beneficial bacteria so that toxic ammonia can be broken down into less harmful nitrates. Using Bioballs for biological filtration of water is extremely attractive for both freshwater & saltwater aquarium enthusiasts.

 

Bioballs Trickle Effect

 

In this application Bioballs are usually employed via a wet/dry or trickle filter. A wet/dry or trickle filter is a system in which water is allowed to pass over the Bioballs, beneficial bacteria grows & interacts with toxic ammonia to produce less harmful nitrates. The trickle effect increases dissolved oxygen levels in the aquarium and cleans or filters the water as the Bioballs combine with organic waste to dissolve it.

 

So the manufacturer of the product even says the use of bioballs is to create nitrates.

[diggman08]

ok dshnarw. . GZAA and alternative to taking out the Bioballs. you can leave em in ,add some Purigen and you should be just fine.... and i have bunch of Chaeto in CHamber 1 above the Purigen also.. dont get hyped up on everything you read on here about Bioballs are Bad... Many people have very successful and beatifull Reef tanks that run Bioballs with or without Filtration Media.... after taking all the advice from everyone...you choose what works best for you and your tank!!!!

[the gzaa]

ok dshnarw. . GZAA and alternative to taking out the Bioballs. you can leave em in ,add some Purigen and you should be just fine.... and i have bunch of Chaeto in CHamber 1 above the Purigen also.. dont get hyped up on everything you read on here about Bioballs are Bad... Many people have very successful and beatifull Reef tanks that run Bioballs with or without Filtration Media.... after taking all the advice from everyone...you choose what works best for you and your tank!!!!

im sticking with the biobollas!!!...oh yea and how much purigen do you put in the mesh bag?? 1 ml per gal?

[diggman08]

it already comes in the mesh bag as 1 unit.. i think its 100mL, treats up to 400L..or 100 gallon.. so yes if you adding to your own media bag it would be 1mL per gal.

[the gzaa]

it already comes in the mesh bag as 1 unit.. i think its 100mL, treats up to 400L..or 100 gallon.. so yes if you adding to your own media bag it would be 1mL per gal.

wait...so whats the product that you have called?

[the gzaa]

bump

[dshnarw]

ok dshnarw. . GZAA and alternative to taking out the Bioballs. you can leave em in ,add some Purigen and you should be just fine.... and i have bunch of Chaeto in CHamber 1 above the Purigen also.. dont get hyped up on everything you read on here about Bioballs are Bad... Many people have very successful and beatifull Reef tanks that run Bioballs with or without Filtration Media.... after taking all the advice from everyone...you choose what works best for you and your tank!!!!

 

I agree with this statement (except for the "add some Purigen" comment). The key is to completely understand how these filtration methods behave - bioballs are EXCELLENT at what they were designed to do. The reason most people don't use them now is because we've come to realize that they aren't necessary as filtration, and create some other issues. You happen to have combated that with a combo of chaeto and purigen, which works well. You could just as easily have skipped the bioballs and Purigen, and used chaeto and a good mechanical filtration method - floss, sponge, etc. - to produce the same results. (Personally, I like the second method better because the chaeto is a one time purchase along with a light - no need to continually waste my reefing money on chemical filtration media I dont need). Again - nothing wrong with your technique - it works for you.

 

it already comes in the mesh bag as 1 unit.. i think its 100mL, treats up to 400L..or 100 gallon.. so yes if you adding to your own media bag it would be 1mL per gal.

 

On the other side of things - I'm not sure you understand fully how Purigen works based on your "prescribed dosage" post. How do you state that in "x amount of Purigen treats x number of gallons?" What parameters must you maintain in order for this statement to be true? To answer that question, you have to know:

 

-What concentration of nitrates does your water have without the Purigen?

-What concentration of other chemicals (phosphate, silica, etc.) are in the water to reduce the Purigen's effectiveness on nitrates?

-How long will the Purigen last at 1ml/1gallon with those concentrations?

 

As an example - if the aquarium produces 20 ppm nitrates, and 0 phosphates/silica, then maybe 1ml/1gallon can last for a couple weeks. On the other hand, if nitrates are 40ppm, or phosphates/silica are high, then maybe 1ml/1gallon only lasts for a week before the Purigen lacks the capacity to remove nitrates.

 

On the bottle of some PhosGuard it says: "Use 250mL for every 300-400L*"

Reading the *: "1L removes up to 72,000mg phosphate - eg 60mg/L in 300 gallons"

[diggman08]

its says it right on the box that the purigen came in... 100ml treats 100 gallons.. and will last around 3 months.. then when its exhausted(turns brown) you can use the method described on the box, and reuse it for another 3months..

[diggman08]

the gzaa o the product is called PURIGEN, your LFS should carry it. its in a lil white/blue box.. i did not mention above but i also run Chemi-pure Elite in Chamber 3.

[dshnarw]

its says it right on the box that the purigen came in... 100ml treats 100 gallons.. and will last around 3 months.. then when its exhausted(turns brown) you can use the method described on the box, and reuse it for another 3months..

 

 

It also has an asterisk (*) in the amount that it treats. That * means "at (some concentration here) of nitrates produced". If the nitrates produced are significantly lower than their assumed concentration, it should last much longer. If they're significantly higher than the assumption (which is the norm - companies do things that make themselves sound better), then it will be exhausted much quicker. 3 months, then, means little in reality because your system may have much more nitrate concentration (likely in gzaa's case), or much less (likely in your case, since you also use chaeto).

 

gzaa - please remember this if you choose to use this product. It works - no argument there - but only for a certain amount of waste. After that, its useless. As a safeguard, you should check this much more often than once every 3 months, and I'd seriously recommend replacing or cleaning (using the prescribed method on the box/website) once a month.

 

(digg - I'm not trying to get at you personally, I hope you understand that. I just want to make sure that gzaa, you, or any other person reading this understands the way these filtration methods work. The more fully you understand the method you employ, the better equipped you are to fix any problems that occur or to create a better filtration system for your tank. In this case, thats fully understanding the bioball and Purigen products, how they're designed to be used, and what they're designed to be used for.)

[the gzaa]

how about if i put more than 14 ml in my tank(1 ml for every gallon i have a 14bc)??...would i be able to fill up the bag or would that be bad?

[dshnarw]

how about if i put more than 14 ml in my tank(1 ml for every gallon i have a 14bc)??...would i be able to fill up the bag or would that be bad?

 

 

there's no problem with that. It'll mean you could go a bit longer before cleaning it.

[the gzaa]

there's no problem with that. It'll mean you could go a bit longer before cleaning it.

good because the purigen i purchased came in a bottle and i had to buy the mesh bag seperatley...i just wanted to make sure i couldnt overdose the thing....just so u know which one im placing in my tank heres a pic

 

 

http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...ges/Purigen.jpg

[dshnarw]

good because the purigen i purchased came in a bottle and i had to buy the mesh bag seperatley...i just wanted to make sure i couldnt overdose the thing....just so u know which one im placing in my tank heres a pic

http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...ges/Purigen.jpg

 

Nope, it'll be fine. Purigen is a zeolite filter - its basically a synthetic mineral that doesn't react with the water in the tank, unless that water has ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates. Those will fit into "holes" in the mineral structure in place of other chemicals, and can't come back out (at least at low enough concentrations). Over time, all the holes fill up, and the purigen becomes useless, until you add new (or recycle the old).

[diggman08]

your not gettting at me personally at all bud , thats what this website is for

[the gzaa]

Nope, it'll be fine. Purigen is a zeolite filter - its basically a synthetic mineral that doesn't react with the water in the tank, unless that water has ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates. Those will fit into "holes" in the mineral structure in place of other chemicals, and can't come back out (at least at low enough concentrations). Over time, all the holes fill up, and the purigen becomes useless, until you add new (or recycle the old).

thank YOU!!!!! you are a savior!!!!!!! lol no but forreal if you become a marine biologist(i think i recall you saying you were?!?)...ill fund all of your diving subs and trips ...seriously

[dshnarw]

thank YOU!!!!! you are a savior!!!!!!! lol no but forreal if you become a marine biologist(i think i recall you saying you were?!?)...ill fund all of your diving subs and trips ...seriously

 

no prob!

 

nah - geologist It better accomodates my pyromaniac tendencies - I get to melt rocks would volunteer for scuba trips though

[the gzaa]

no prob!

 

nah - geologist It better accomodates my pyromaniac tendencies - I get to melt rocks would volunteer for scuba trips though

lol so you study gems and like limestone rock? im a bit confused

[dshnarw]

lol so you study gems and like limestone rock? im a bit confused

 

volcanoes and magma chambers - granites, lavas, and such. A common analysis for volcanic rocks is to heat them until they've melted (this being the fun part) and make a glass wafer, and then shoot x-rays or electron beams at the wafer and see what elements are in the rock, and their proportions. We also shoot lasers at crystals and see what happens...lots of fun stuff (some not so fun stuff too, but why ruin your concept of geology?)

 

I collect rough gemstones, minerals/rocks, fossils.

[c est ma]

If you want to get rid of nitrates, you need to... get a skimmer (although not really worth it IMO on a small tank),

 

dsh--would you please elaborate on this? Why skimmers are not worth it in small tanks, that is. Thanks!

 

--Diane

[bad ed]

Does anybody regenerate their Purigen, and if so, how many times can you regenerate it?

[StevieT]

Does anybody regenerate their Purigen, and if so, how many times can you regenerate it?

 

I have not done this and don't plan on it. Soaking anything in bleach then introducing it back into my $2000+ aquarium seems like a risk I am not willing to take. The cost of Purigen vs losing everything.......

[dshnarw]

dsh--would you please elaborate on this? Why skimmers are not worth it in small tanks, that is. Thanks!

 

--Diane

 

 

Sure -

 

In my experience, the same things can be accomplished with skimmers or with macroalgae and water changes in small tanks - that is, the reduction of nitrate into nitrogen gas with macroalgae, and the elimination of waste products through dilution/removal from the system in water changes and protein skimmers. In that way, a skimmer is certainly a great mechanical filtration device.

 

For me, though, I've never found a nano skimmer that worked efficiently with little "babysitting", and for little cost. There's a lot of adjusting/breaking in to get the skimmer working at its best, add in cleaning time for the skimmer cup, skimmer body, and the varying efficiency when the skimmer is clean vs. dirty. Comparatively, I can throw in some macro and put a light on a timer and I'm done, with essentially the same results, which is why I don't consider them worth it - too much effort for the same results.

 

Based on Table 5 of this: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/...ature/index.php you can see the difference in nutrient export for macroalgaes and skimmers. Pretty even if you consider the amount of macroalgae compared to the amount of skimmate/sludge you'd get. Unfortunately, the ridiculously small sampling has some huge errors (or lacks them altogether, in the case of the sludge).

 

So for me - it's convenience. I know that I'm not going to overfeed to the point that the macroalgae and water changes can't keep up. I know that I'm not introducing toxins (heavy metal or organic) into the tank (which a skimmer is much more efficient at than macroalgae...but still not so great). Given those, there's little reason for me to use the skimmer.

 

On the other hand - the convenience of a skimmer over the bulk needed to provide adequate macroalgae growth in larger tanks would change my mind. Anything bigger than a 50ish gallon tank (arbitrary number), I'd put a skimmer on there to cut down on sheer size of the refugium required. But at that point, the skimmer is large enough to require less daily maintenence.

[c est ma]

Thank you so much! The greater attention required by smaller skimmers was definitely the piece of the puzzle I was missing. That was a very interesting article, as well. Next I think I'll be picking your brain via pm...

 

--Diane

[Mr. Fosi]

Sorry for bumping an old thread but I have to disagree with the "small rock cannot house NO3 reducing bacteria" statements.

 

To keep the discussion from being split, I will now post in this thread: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...60&start=60