Risk of Death from Logical Reef Zoos.

[Shaolin]

I ordered some zoo frags from logical reef and soon after i realized some funky looking slugs and i foudn out they match the ones in this thread http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=12388

 

they have some reddish firey flaires and they craw on my zoos and cause them to close.

 

 

well that thread contained this link http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...hlight=zoanthid which shows that this guy got his zoos from logical reef so i guess many of the zoos from logical reef had this thing hitchiking on it.

 

now im afraid to put my hand in the tank without protection. at least with zoos i know exactly where they are and wont disturb them when i put my hands in the tank bare to do maintenance

(which currently includes pulling out hair algae im battline).

 

now with this highly toxic nudi i can no longer put my hand in the tank bare to pull out my hair algae because any of those nudis can be hiding in the bushes and if i accidentally squeeze one i can die.

 

 

so i guess i have to buy protective gloves tomorrow. anyone know where and what type of gloves i should buy? should i get latex gloves or some other type of glove? please help. im seriously scared of my tank now. before i handled my live rock and corals bare handed knowing the risks but now i have to avoid pin head sized killers that can be anywhere on the rocks.

[adinsxq]

if these nudi's were so abundant and a serious threat, the quantity of zoanthid that passes through mr. logical's hands in the process of frag/bag/tag would have surely KILLED HIM BY NOW. (and many times over at that)

 

 

 

note to all you goofballs:

scared of your coral? send them to me.

 

 

edit: uh... and about that RC thread. why the heck would you squish a NUDI (in a nano especially... with your finger moreover). ok... and why would you just *wipe* your hand with a *towel* off after squashing an organism that you know has ingested some of your zoos? itchy eye? itchy lip? booger?

 

 

sea spiders?

http://www-personal.monash.edu.au/~fgodevic/seaspider/

 

 

 

sapiens

[~_~]

Just buy any good pair of gloves that you like.

 

I use those aquagloves, but there so damn thick I only use them for moving rock,

so I use these Nitrile gloves I got from usplastics.com for everything else.

 

 

Maybe now people will quarantine there corals more often

[Acoustic]

adinsxq -

 

Make no mistake. If you get in touch with that toxin you will regret it. Shaolin is on the right track here with PPE. It is becoming common knowledge now that this danger exists. I feel that you shouldn't make light of this matter because someone will get hurt.

 

Shaolin -

 

Buy a pair of tweezers and pluck those little guys out. Use PPE until you are sure they are all gone. Reef tanks have been and always will be "unsafe" for many reasons. But it is no means anything to get excited about. Just remember that it's nature and you always have to be careful.

[reefphreak]

It's called respect. You have to respect nature.

[Joe_fro]

Hey shoalin I was that first thread that you posted and I too got my first zoanthids from logical. That is where my first nudi came from. This is in no way a flame towards bryan at the logicalreef. I just use those little locking tweaser things to pluck them out. I never come in contact with the nudis bare-handed. If I were you start plucking them out now so that they don't multiply. I didnt think they were harmful and now i have a lot. i plucked out 6 last night and two this morning. look at the tank under actinics and you can see them glow. you might even see some that are really tiny like the size of a pin-head. hope this helps.

[Crakeur]

well, if the little slugs eat toxic zoanthus, I would imagine they have one hell of a large build up of the toxins in their system. So, if the slugs in your own tank are eating zoos that don't have those toxins, my guess is that the slugs are nowhere near as dangerous as the one in that guys tank. However, it is yet another reason to handle everything in your tank with extreme care and caution.

 

Slugs are one of my favorite tank critters. Unfortunately, they are so damned difficult to keep (and now deadly - yay another reason to avoid them). The lettuce nudi's I have kept (with some success) turn greener as they ingest more algae. Way cool and not quite as hard to keep or dangerous.

 

As for the title of this thread, I think it is a bit unfair to state it that way. For starters, The Logical Reef is not knowingly passing these things along. Second, it is possible that the slugs hitchhiked from another rock and multiplied. I have ordered from TLR many, many times and have never seen one of the slugs, nor have I had zoos die off in a pattern that would make me think something was eating them. Is it possible the slugs came from him? Sure. However, if he had the slugs in his tanks, I'm sure he would have noticed them and, knowing Bryan as I do, I would think he would do whatever it takes to rid himself of the pests. I also think he would hesitate to send out rocks that had zoos and pest slugs on them. At the very least, I would think he would pluck any harmful hitchhikers before packaging the frags and shipping them out.

[Shaolin]

what is PPE?

 

 

i not flaming logical reef im just giving a heads up to everyone who may have ordered from them because so far the three people who have these toxic nudis including myself have purchased zoos from logical reef. and being that these nudis are zoo eaters, it can only be assumed that bryan's propogation tank is a heaven for these things to breed and multiply.

[reefphreak]

Personal Protection Equipment

[Masoch]

Just curious, is all ...

 

Can you scare out the little bastards with a FW dip? If so, it might be good practice to dip new zoo frags in FW before acclimatizing them. It'll add more stress to the shipping process, but probably less stress than introducing a predator.

 

Just a thought.

[tow-up]

i bet the 3 of you also have live rock in your tank. thus they could have came on your rock. i too have ordered many zoos and other corals from bryan with none of these nudis

[LiQuiD]

Trojan Maaaaan. I hear they have a new easy fit ribbed zoo glove for ultra invertibrate pleasure. So pick yourself up a box and squish away.

 

How many of you would squish a nudi against the glass of your tank? "Hey, I didn't like my shrimp anymore so I smooshed it between 2 rocks, huhuhuh snort huhuhuh."

 

Lesson 1: Don't kill creatures while in your tank by squishing them against the glass so their guts can pollute your water, toxic or not.

 

Lesson 2: Don't kill palytoxin ingesting nudis while in your tank by squishing them against the glass so their guts can pollute your water and possibly kill you.

 

If I told you a friend of mine squished his foot against the gas pedal in his car to see how fast he could go while intoxicated and hit a wall and almost died, would you be worried about driving your cars anymore. I understand that there is a difference between common sence and blind unkowing reef keeping.

 

Sorry, had to throw one more in here. "I got really ####ed at my clown, so I took a swing at it with my heater while cleaning my tank. When the heater glass broke, I had this wierd tingeling feeling and when I woke up in the hospital, they said I was almost electrocuted to death. Everyone out there be carefull, when you try to hit and squish your fish with your heater, try not to break the glass, it could kill you."

 

Please, I hope no one take offense to this. I am glad that the person in DC is OK and am glad that more people have again become aware of the deadly palytoxins in our tanks. It is just the whole "squish it against my glass" thing was funny to me.

 

Relax and reef on.

[treszoks]

I have them too. I ordered my zoos from the logical reef as well but I have no idea if they hitch-hiked on them or on something else. I tried freshwater dips but it doesn't seem to work that well. I usually just pluck them out with tweezers.

[Shaolin]

Originally posted by tow-up

i bet the 3 of you also have live rock in your tank.  thus they could have came on your rock. i too have ordered many zoos and other corals from bryan with none of these nudis

 

 

ok.. well four people who claim they have this nudi also say they purchased zoos from logical reef.

 

these nudis have been observed eating and hanging aruond zoos.

 

i am not sure about the other 3 people, but i noticed these nudis about 2 weeks after i had my logical reef zoos introduced into my tank which was the last corals added.

 

it doesnt take a genius to give an educated guess on where these nudis originated from..

 

 

 

no offense to bryan.. just giving him a heads up

[Crakeur]

I'm with liquid here. This is as ridiculous as the guy who's dog almost died because it licked his zoos or the well known reef specialist who rubbed his eyes or put his hand in his mouth after handling zoos.

 

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

As for blaming Bryan, well, if they did come from him, he seems to not have a problem with them eating his stock and he has yet to drop dead from his handling them. Bryan, please tell me you're still among the living.

 

Handle with care people, plain and simple.

 

For those that are now fearful of zoos or Bryan's zoos in particular, all I can say is more zoos for me!

[Satchmo]

Regardless of the source, you take the chance of introducing pest hitchhikers anytime you add something to your tank. It's the nature of the beast. You could avoid this by setting up an empty tank full of saltwater. Could make for a provocative display.

[Crakeur]

minimalist tank. very interesting concept although the onset of algae would ruin the display.

[kennerd]

How Yoko Ono.......

[caja]

I was thinking the same thing Satchmo. How hard would that be to quarantine for a couple of days till the little buggers show themselves. Bucket, PH and thermometer if needed. Cool set-up!

[adinsxq]

yeah. EVERYONE STOP BUYING ZOOS (or just return them to the store X))! thems nudis are cute little boogers though.

 

crak, no water no algae; all problems solved.

[MrGuyPerson]

Originally posted by Shaolin

ok.. well four people who claim they have this nudi also say they purchased zoos from logical reef.

 

these nudis have been observed eating and hanging aruond zoos.

 

i am not sure about the other 3 people, but i noticed these nudis about 2 weeks after i had my logical reef zoos introduced into my tank which was the last corals added.

 

it doesnt take a genius to give an educated guess on where these nudis originated from..

 

 

 

no offense to bryan.. just giving him a heads up

 

Given the amount of time it took to show themselves, they could very well have come in on your original rock or any you added before and finally discovered your zoos, thinking them a great snack. Your zoos being in the open (I hope) thus bring out the nudis into the open to be more easily seen.

 

Just a possibility.

[Orange Crush]

Originally posted by adinsxq

crak, no water no algae; all problems solved.

dust.

[Nevermind]

Take the zoo rock out of the water, let them close up, dip in RO/DI water (remember to equalize the water temp) for a few minutes. You'll kill off pods and everything else on the rock but the zoos will be fine. Actually, use the dead pods as an indication of when to take the zoos back out (when all the pods are dead).

 

These things might eat your zoos but damn they look nice under actinic light, bright glowing orange and red. I still find one or two once in a while but as long as they don't become and infestation everything should be fine. Its when your zoos are all closed up with little holes eaten out of them then you should worry about.

 

Chris

[FlyGTI]

I've got to weigh in for a minute here.

 

I can't really agree with the statement "This is not an an anti Logical Reef thread." Bull######.

 

It is most definitely an anti Logical Reef thread. And not only that, it's without cause. Yes, three people have confirmed that they have bought zooanthid polyps from Bryan. Three people seem to think that the slugs came as tank terrorists directly from Bryan.

 

So now Bryan is apparently a terrorist trying to sabotage his customers' tanks?

 

Uh...earth to the Wu-Tang clan...

 

I think it's utterly ridiculous to bring him in on this, especially in a public nature. I don't even know Bryan, never bought from him (yet), but it seems to me that sabotaging him, even if you don't "mean to", will probably have an effect on his business. Why couldn't this have been taken off line? There are plenty of threads here and on the rest of the internet expressing that we need to be careful when handling zooanthids, for risk of accidentally absorbing a little of the palytoxin. Why does Bryan's business have to be brought into it?

 

People, this is the risk we take when keeping a box of the ocean. There's some ###### in the ocean that's got enough firepower to knock the hell out of you without thinking twice about it. Be freaking careful!

 

And to assume that Bryan was the source of the slugs in question is utterly ludicrous. You ordered slug take out food when you ordered from Bryan! He merely filled the order when you punched it in. Don't blame him. There are so many different places that you could have gotten them from, and they could have easily been making do with whatever food was on the liverock in your system, and then you threw in a whole bunch of zooanthid pizzas! Why the hell wouldn't they go nuts?

 

If there was some way to prove that you did get your zookilling hijackers from Bryan, that doesn't mean squat, in my book. I mean, let's say you order about 50 lbs. of live rock, and you get a mantis shrimp on one of the rocks. Do you go out to the internet and ***** out the live rock retailer? Uh...no. They won't listen, and I hope that for his sake, Bryan doesn't either. That's a risk that we all take when we keep a reef.

 

All right. Sorry if this came off wrong. I'm done.

 

No, I'm not sorry. This was a dumb thread to start. This has been hashed over again and again, and there was utterly no need to bring in a vendor and bash him for it.

[Crakeur]

well said Fly. Bryan knows about the thread, as I emailed him a link, and I'm sure he will respond, when he has the time. However, as you said, the slugs could have come from anywhere and, even if they did come from his stock, it is the buyer's responsibility to check the rock for any hitchhikers. If you bought a frag and an aiptasia was visible, would you pluck it off and throw a hissy fit on these boards? Doubt it. Sure, the risk of illness makes this worse but it is still a hitchhiker that should be removed if you can spot it. If you don't see any when you plop the frag into your tank, well, that's the risk you take. this leads us back to the empty tank.