New 20L Mixed Reef Build

[tdukes]

Nice pics on the new additions. The granulosa is sweet.

[jnarowe]

great selection of corals.

 

As far as "burn-in" goes, what I am talking about is running the lamps for a while before you actually install them in the tank. This way the color is more stable and the corals don't have added stress. For the type of lighting you are using, it is not nearly as important as for MH lamps, but I still think it's worth doing.

 

If you don't already know, halimeda will soak up Ca and spread like a weed. I don't know of any animal that eats it, and when it dies, it essentially becomes part of the coral sand. I had quite a bit in my display for a long time, but the corals are competing with it for Ca, and there seems to be much less now. You may see a burst of growth and even a shift in your water parameters if it does grow a lot.

 

Watch that sponge carefully.

 

 

In the picture above you can see a similarly colored sponge that came in on a ricordia rock. I thought it was really cool, but the ricordia didn't fare well. I pulled the rock and put it in QT, only to watch the ricordia melt away. I studied this rock every day and found quie a few hitch-hikers, but the most interesting one was too elusive to know what it was. It lived inside the sponge and when it sensed my presence (perhaps by light/shadow changes), it would retract or scoot back inside. I never saw it out of the sponge, even on flashlight runs.

 

What I also found was some kind of viscous material that came out from under the sponge, and was literally carrying away the ricordia, one bump at a time. They weren't melting, they were being carried off by this sort of slime...anyway, the entire rock melted down in QT and several people suggested that it was a boring sponge. When the rock was down to about 50% of its original weight/size, I round-filed it.

 

Be careful about the Aqua-Medic doser. I had one doing my top-off and it failed regularly enough that I got a LiterMeter III. The issue is that the Aqua-Medic has only two rollers (at least mine did) so in certain positions it would allow a syphon. Even though I had it mounted near the ceiling above the RO/DI holding tank, because the line was running into my sealed kalk stirrer, it allowed the syphon. I had a couple of near disasters with this unit, spiking my alk to the detriment of some corals.

 

That granulosa is sweet. I hope you didn't pay too much for it as that is the latest marketing scam of the hobby: "Deep Water Corals"...what a bunch of crap!

[aparker]

The granulosa was not too steep - it's a maricultured specimen, so not from any kind of deep water itself (at least not recently).

 

Today I noticed this new macroalgae (pretty sure it is) growing amongst my blue zoas. Going to pluck it out before it gets outta hand.

 

Here is my latest find, a nice pink Echinophyllia aspera. According to the dealer it arrived in his shop boring brown and got pinker over the 2-3 weeks he had it. It has continued to do so for the last 5 days with me. Borneman notes that for whatever reason the genus in general tends to look nicer in captivity than they do in the wild. Anyway, here it is:

[jnarowe]

I don't know, that macro looks kind of cool. Maybe you can get it to grow in the fuge? If it has any food value, that would be nice. Zoas look sooooo nice!

[aparker]

Finally got around to rearranging things and doing a wc today. Also plucked the macro out of my blue zoas. Here is a current FTS. I reinforced the roof of the cave on the left with some strategically placed globs of epoxy putty. It is now very stable, but I need to reorient the Echinopora somewhat. Also need to prop/move the birdsnest.

 

At this point I need to figure out some nice LPS for the upper far left where it is still bare (Acan lord if I can find a nice one for a reasonable price? Or a cool favid), something nice and BLUE in the right center top, and some red blastos somewhere, just because I want them. I think that is going to be about all this thing can take.

 

Anyone know why my zoanthids might be less happy than everyone else in here? The green colony especially seems to spend a lot of time with 60+% of the polyps closed (not always the same ones):

 

I can't see any evidence of either of the zoanthid diseases people talk about (pox or fungus), and nothing is growing amongst them. I am puzzled. All suggestions welcome....

[jnarowe]

I would pull them and examine them very closely for zoa eating nudis. The nudis are fairly easy to spot, and the egg masses would be on the polyp shaft looking like tiny swirls. If you find even one nudi, PM/email me and I will give you instructions on how to eradicate them.

[aparker]

I would pull them and examine them very closely for zoa eating nudis. The nudis are fairly easy to spot, and the egg masses would be on the polyp shaft looking like tiny swirls. If you find even one nudi, PM/email me and I will give you instructions on how to eradicate them.

 

Damn. As of today the zoa pox is impossible to mistake. White spots, all polyps closed - unbelievable how fast it came on. I am attempting the cure documented on zoaid.com - with a slight change. The writer there recommends a dip in 1 capsule/cup of Furan 2 dissolved in RO water, for 15-30 min, followed by a saltwater rinse. Repeated every day for three days. Others posting here and on reefcentral.com have advocated using saltwater for the Furan dip. I could not find Furan-2, but did find Furazone Green, which has the same amount of methylene blue and furazolidone as the Furan-2, but 2x the amount of nitrofurazone. So I am splitting the difference and dipping in 3 capsules to 4 cups saltwater. I will do a 20 min dip today, tomorrow, and Thursday, then wait a week to assess if they need a second round. I have to rush this because I am leaving town this weekend and the damn things will be dead by Monday anyway at the rate they are going. I am doing this as much in the spirit of experimentation as in any hope of a real solution. Whatever the pathogen is, it's in the tank, so there's no reason to believe that it can't reinfect them. Bottom line is that I may just have to give up on zoanthids for this tank. I do wonder how the pathogen got in. Maybe on the latest colony of zoas, although it looked healthy and came from a healthy dealer tank. maybe on that ^$&*^%(*% colony of GSP that JNAROWE hectored me into getting rid of. I'll never know for sure. Damn zoa pox.

[divecj5]

Sorry to hear that you have confirmed it to be zoa pox...although between you, Jonathan, and all the others that have gone through it, I'm sure you will beat it like a champ and will be back in shape in no time.

 

Keep us updated on the progress, etc.

[aparker]

Keep us updated on the progress, etc.

 

Well, they survived the first dip. I'll see how they look when I get home this evening and then dip 'em again.

[jnarowe]

got a picture? How do you know it's the "pox"?

[aparker]

got a picture? How do you know it's the "pox"?

 

No, I did not take a pic of the nadir of their condition. I was too focused on trying to do something prior to leaving town. They had white spots under the outer surface of the tissue in numerous places (it's not really "skin" in a histological sense, so I won't call it that) and had some white areas that covered a portion of the edge of some oral disks, in conjunction with the tentacles in those areas being fully retracted (this is on the blue colony; the green was completely closed up and spotty in places). Close inspection revealed no nudibranchs and no egg swirls (the pix one can view on the net make it pretty clear what these should look like). So best guess at this point is some pathogen producing a pox-like phenotype. Who knows how many different bugs there are that end up getting called "zoa pox"? Perhaps if "ornamental polyp aquaculture" becomes a big enough economic force some aspiring grad student will get some grant $$$ to look into it?

[jnarowe]

interesting. I have never seen that before. Sounds similar to Ich "white spot" from your description. I hope you get it taken care of!

[aparker]

I was wrong! Tonight on re-inspection I did find a nudibranch (on the blue polyps). I also discovered several egg masses buried down at the base of some polyps. All were removed. I took the other colony out and looked it over closely but could not find any more of the bastards (or eggs). No reason to believe they cannot be hiding elsewhere in the tank, though.

 

AND there are still odd white spots (not eggs) on some of the polyps.

 

I wish I had space to set up a QT tank. I would remove the polyps from the main tank and let whatever nudibranchs are still in there starve (I'm assuming these like most others have a very narrow food specificity).

 

I guess I'll see what's up on Monday when I get back.

[jnarowe]

did you fresh water dip them? I would do that once per day and inspect/remove any nudis and eggs. What I do is set up a FW dip in a pitcher with identical temp. and some Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure. You could also try other remedies, but what I found is that worked the best. Flatworm Exit seemed to have no effect on them.

 

Then I dip for 10 - 15 minutes, swish them around, and inspect both the dip and the polyps. QT would be nice, as I have four colonies in QT right now, but the nudis like to stay close to their food source and egg laying grounds, so you may be able to eradicate them. Unfortunately, if they have laid eggs in the tank, you may be out of luck.

[aparker]

did you fresh water dip them? I would do that once per day and inspect/remove any nudis and eggs. What I do is set up a FW dip in a pitcher with identical temp. and some Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure. You could also try other remedies, but what I found is that worked the best. Flatworm Exit seemed to have no effect on them.

 

Then I dip for 10 - 15 minutes, swish them around, and inspect both the dip and the polyps. QT would be nice, as I have four colonies in QT right now, but the nudis like to stay close to their food source and egg laying grounds, so you may be able to eradicate them. Unfortunately, if they have laid eggs in the tank, you may be out of luck.

 

How many times would you repeat the FW dip? On sequential days, or every other...

 

How much of this will the polyps tolerate?

[jnarowe]

Zoanthids and palys are extremely hardy and in fact tough to kill. They will tolerate quite a bit of abuse. I mean they are alive and yet hostinng a parasitic nudi that is eating them right?

 

What happens is when you take them out of the tank, they will close up, and then you can inspect them easily. Then dip them and swish them.

 

I would recommend at least every other day, but since you don't have a QT, perhaps daily would be better. Don't let people tell you it can't or shouldn't be done. And I would do it until you are very certain there are no more nudis or eggs. CERTAIN! It's either that or lose them and quite possibly, never be able to keep them again.

 

I have a buddy with a 90g and he lost a bunch to fish predation. When he removed the offending fish one colony was left, but then one day he noticed that colony was having problems too, and that's when he saw the nudis. They are on a rock that cannot be removed, so it is over for him and polyps. He is very experienced with these nudis from the past and is the one who caught them on my last purchase. Had I put them in the tank, I would have lost them and all the colonies already in the tank. The HORROR....

[aparker]

Zoanthids and palys are extremely hardy and in fact tough to kill. They will tolerate quite a bit of abuse. I mean they are alive and yet hostinng a parasitic nudi that is eating them right?

 

What happens is when you take them out of the tank, they will close up, and then you can inspect them easily. Then dip them and swish them.

 

I would recommend at least every other day, but since you don't have a QT, perhaps daily would be better. Don't let people tell you it can't or shouldn't be done. And I would do it until you are very certain there are no more nudis or eggs. CERTAIN! It's either that or lose them and quite possibly, never be able to keep them again.

 

I have a buddy with a 90g and he lost a bunch to fish predation. When he removed the offending fish one colony was left, but then one day he noticed that colony was having problems too, and that's when he saw the nudis. They are on a rock that cannot be removed, so it is over for him and polyps. He is very experienced with these nudis from the past and is the one who caught them on my last purchase. Had I put them in the tank, I would have lost them and all the colonies already in the tank. The HORROR....

 

So how long can the nudibranchs survive without food? By way of analogy, people get Berghesia nudibranchs to kill Aiptasia, and as soon as all the anemones are gone from the tank, the nudibranchs die - they can't eat anything else. Most nudibranchs are like this - obligate feeders on a very narrow range of foods. So if one got rid of all polyps in the tank, how long would one have to wait until all the polyp nudis were dead of starvation? Has anyone experimented with this?

[aparker]

did you fresh water dip them? I would do that once per day and inspect/remove any nudis and eggs. What I do is set up a FW dip in a pitcher with identical temp. and some Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure. You could also try other remedies, but what I found is that worked the best. Flatworm Exit seemed to have no effect on them.

 

Then I dip for 10 - 15 minutes, swish them around, and inspect both the dip and the polyps. QT would be nice, as I have four colonies in QT right now, but the nudis like to stay close to their food source and egg laying grounds, so you may be able to eradicate them. Unfortunately, if they have laid eggs in the tank, you may be out of luck.

 

OK, so I ordered the Tropic Marin stuff, but figuring there's no reason to wait, and that the osmotic shock from going into RO water is probably most of what kills the nudibranchs, I decided to start the dip regmen tonight.

 

I tossed the three rocks with polyps on them into temp-matched RO. No pH match, no additives. If we're going to whack these things, we'll give 'em a hard whack, I figure. I left them in for 15 minutes with occasional vigorous swishing, but within 2 minutes two adult nudibranchs appeared out of one of the colonies, already at least 90% dead. I also found and picked off several more egg masses, some on polyps, some on the rocks. Of course, every arthropod on the rocks died instantly too, but I have lots of amphipods to spare, so that's OK. There may have been a couple more small nudibranchs dead in the bottom of the dip container, but amongst all the general fluff and detritus I couldn't tell for sure without a microscope.

 

I will keep doing this daily until I find no more nudibranchs or eggs, them we'll see if the situation is fixed.

 

As an aside, do you have any experience with these guys attacking Palythoa? I'm pretty sure all mine are Zooanthus spp. and have read somewhere that true Palys are fairly resistant owing to the palytoxin they produce. Also, what about the generic "yellow polyps" that have been around forever - are they close enough to be food for these guys or no?

 

Thanks again for all the help.

[jnarowe]

I don't know what their particular effect is on various palys etc. but considering that the zoas are fairly toxic, I would assume that may not matter.

 

Sounds like you are on the right path. I would make sure that they have opened up for a while before the next dip. I know it's a PITA, but really this is the only way to eradicate them. GL!

[aparker]

I don't know what their particular effect is on various palys etc. but considering that the zoas are fairly toxic, I would assume that may not matter.

 

Sounds like you are on the right path. I would make sure that they have opened up for a while before the next dip. I know it's a PITA, but really this is the only way to eradicate them. GL!

 

I checked them around noon today and they were opened up partially - no worse looking than yesterday. I will do the FW nuke again tonight. No quarter for these SOBs.

[jnarowe]

That's the spirit Alex!

[divecj5]

Keep up the nuking...sounds like you are on the right track.

 

Like you said, keep the pain coming to those little SOBs

[aparker]

So good news - the blue Zoa colony really did look happier today. I did another 15 min RO dip and this time found no new nudibranchs and no eggs on any of the colonies. We'll see how it progresses from here.

 

Quick update on parameters. My Ca/alk situation is now finally stable at 9 dKH and 400 mg/L. The tank is consuming 15 ml/day of B-ionic (15 each part) to stay at this level. Going to get the dosing pump set up soon, hopefully this weekend if I have time. Still no measurable NO3 or PO4.

[jnarowe]

Sounds really good. Don't forget to post pics dude! And if you can get some macro shots of the nudis that might help others on Nano-Reef ID them too.

[divecj5]

Congrats on the good news about not finding any more new nudis on the blue zoa colony.

 

Would love to see some pics of the tank when you get the chance.