New 20L Mixed Reef Build

[ReadyReefer]

omg, that was the longest post i have ever read. good info though

[aparker]

OK, so 5 gal of water mixed up from my bag of SeaChem reef salt at 1.026 SG tests at 375 mg/L Ca and 7 dKH. Clearly less than it ought to be. Score one for Mr Rowe, salt skeptic. I am going to experiment to see what I need to add to get it to 420 mg/L and 9 dKH.

[aparker]

OK, so 5 gal of water mixed up from my bag of SeaChem reef salt at 1.026 SG tests at 375 mg/L Ca and 7 dKH. Clearly less than it ought to be. Score one for Mr Rowe, salt skeptic. I am going to experiment to see what I need to add to get it to 420 mg/L and 9 dKH.

 

So I overshot bigtime on the first attempt at this and just precipitated a $h!tload of CaCO3 in my mixing container.

 

Live and learn.

 

I am now mixing a fresh 5 gal of salt mix and will re-experiment carefully to see what it takes to normalize it at ideal reef chemistry.

 

Also ran the main tank water chemistry, which is making me happy. i have been putting in about 2:1 part A vs part B of 2-part additive trying to correct my Ca:alk imbalance. Operationally this means 15 ml of part A per day (obviously missed when I'm out of town, which makes me want to buy a dosing pump) and just enough part B to keep the pH up. I have been waiting for it to get to around 8.0, and hitting the tank with 5ml, which will take it up to about 8.12 (I love having a pH probe). So currently:

 

NO3: zero

PO4: zero

 

SG: 1.026

Alk: 7.5 dKH

Ca:380 mg/L

 

So Ca and alk are at the low end of "reef ideal", but importantly they are now BOTH at the low end, rather than Ca low and alk high. So I should be able to start a more balanced supplementation regimen now.

 

The major nutrients are still zero, which just means that stuff is growing fast enough to keep them all tied up in living tissue. J Rowe's comments about my fuge are getting me worried about buildup of organic matter that could decay if something went awry, however. I am now contemplating a redesign (Fuge 2.0). I am going to discuss this further in a new thread about things I'd do differently with this tank if I did it over.

[msn711]

You could use the reef chemistry calculator to get a better handle on targeting specific calc/alk params...takes the guess work out of it. http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html

[aparker]

You could use the reef chemistry calculator to get a better handle on targeting specific calc/alk params...takes the guess work out of it. http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html

 

That is cool. Thanks.

[msn711]

No problem. It's such a great tool; it needs to be passed around. Now if I could just invest in some dosing pumps...

[jnarowe]

strange that I am getting notifications about every new thread but not the one I am subscribed too!

 

ReadyReefer: Sorry about that really....I just get going sometimes.

 

msn711: I swear I posted that link but I don't see it anywhere in my post, good going. it's a great way to utilize non-traditional chemicals as well. I use Driveway Heat (same as Kent Turbo Ca), baking soda, and epsom salts.

 

Alex: Pay close attention to true water volume when you use the calculator. You got better results with the Seachem Reef Salt than I, IIRC, I got 6.0 dKh, and nowhwere's near on the Ca. Like I stated before, each batch is different and you got a better one than I did.

 

The issue with nutrients and tests is this: You can test zero for PO4 in the water column until the sand and rock have been saturated. Then the numbers will start to creep up, but at that point, water changes will only affect the nutrient levels very mildly as you have essentially run out of room to absorb them. That's when you see the beginnings of a crash. I know with your scientific backround you have a much better grasp of these issues on a molecular level, so my comments can only be taken as personal observations.

 

Also, there's really only one phosphate test that is considered accurate at all and that is the Deltec/Merk one. Other than using a spectrometer, that's about the best you can get, and the typical Seachem, Salifert, etc. tests for PO4 are not used by advanced reefers. I use Salifert and Seachem for other tests, just not that one and the reason is that I grow SPS which are particularly sensitive to PO4.

 

Glad to see your science coming out...Greg doesn't let it when it comes to his tank!

[aparker]

Also, there's really only one phosphate test that is considered accurate at all and that is the Deltec/Merk one.

 

Glad to see your science coming out...Greg doesn't let it when it comes to his tank!

 

 

Where do you get the Deltec test kit?

 

I can't help being a science geek - it just comes naturally....

[aparker]

OK, time for some before & after. I got my first batch of SPS on July 12, so about 3.5 weeks ago. Today I took some updated photos to show growth patterns etc in the beasts.

 

Here's the S. hystrix for starters. It has not gotten hugely larger, but if you note in the before all of the branch tips were blunted - broken off in shipping probably from the mariculture facility somewhere in the South Pacific to DFS. Now they are sharp - the points have regrown and they are starting to get longer.

 

Next the Echinophora. This one is harder to see - but look at the edges of its "skirt" - it has added 2-3mm of new growth which is much paler than the older tissue, as the "leading edge" of many of these things seems to be. It has also healed over a nasty gouge in the topside (not visible in before photo) that actually had algae growing on it when it arrived. The coralites all over the surface have grown upward into slightly higher bumps, too.

 

Here is the red M. capricornis. A slower grower for sure but starting to spread over the edges of it's frag mount. It will be nice when it covers the ugly thing up completely...

 

The growth champion, however, is the green M. digitata. These shots aren't from the same angle, but the delta in size should be pretty obvious. How many months till this one needs fragging to keep it in check?

 

I've seen less growth in the salmon digitata, but it was parked in too low a light level for quite a while. Now that it is front and center in the tank it is starting to perk up. The Acropora I got is growing too, but it is hard to get a focused picture of it in the midground of the tank - my camera doesn't want to auto-focus on it. I will try again for a good pic later. The cool thing about this one is that it has "nominated" two new axial corallites - two formerly brown polyps on the side of one branch have swelled and turned the light blue color of the growing tip - new branches to be.

 

Finally, here is an interesting little hitcher I got with my most recent acquisitions. Some kind of sea hare I think. It is eating algae, so it is my friend no matter what it is....

[divecj5]

Great before and after pics....always nice to take some progression shots to see where things have been and where they are now.

 

Looks like everything is doing great in the tank and you're getting some nice growth. It looks like the birdsnest had better polyp extension when you first got it though...unless you took this picture when the lights weren't on or after they just turned on.

 

The growth on the M. Digitata is awesome.

[aparker]

Great before and after pics....always nice to take some progression shots to see where things have been and where they are now.

 

Looks like everything is doing great in the tank and you're getting some nice growth. It looks like the birdsnest had better polyp extension when you first got it though...unless you took this picture when the lights weren't on or after they just turned on.

 

The growth on the M. Digitata is awesome.

 

The birdsnest seems mostly to extend its polyps at night these days, which I think is pretty common for such things.

[aparker]

My Ricordea yuma was looking increasingly unhappy, getting smaller every day. I moved it back completely under the overhanging ledge with the other corallimorphs so that it only gets diffused/reflected light - it is completely hidden from direct view of the lamps. It's much happier now. I had been under the impression that these guys liked more light than other mushrooms, but apparently there's more light and then there's MORE LIGHT, with my T5s in 11" of water counting as the latter.

 

I am now wondering if the zooanthids I have may also be a bit more strongly illuminated than they would ideally want. This seems unlikely since you see them in plenty of MH-lit tanks, but who knows? I would be happier if they showed more evidence of growth - they mostly seem static in size, as opposed to their SPS neighbors, which are all growing happily. May also be too much water movement for them. I guess having set up a tank with the needs of SPS corals foremost in mind, I should not be surprised when that's what grows well in it.

 

This of course makes me think about whether I should set up a small all-in-one at work with less flow and PC lights, and put my polyps/mushrooms there, and maybe a clownfish....this hobby is an evil disease....

 

Speaking of SPS, though, the water parameters they care about most are getting close to where I want them - now 400 mg/L Ca and 8 dKH. I'm going to go with 5ml of each B-Ionic component 2x/day and see how that does at maintaining levels. Of course, the tank's Ca demand is about to bump up again, as new arrivals will be here tomorrow.

 

I will be getting a mix of Trochus, Margarita, and Nassarius snails to finally replace the Turbos.

 

Also some nice new SPS frags and one LPS. Pix once they're in the water....

[Mr Miagi]

Finally, here is an interesting little hitcher I got with my most recent acquisitions. Some kind of sea hare I think. It is eating algae, so it is my friend no matter what it is....

 

This little fella is known as a Stomatellid, largely unrecognised in the hobby, despite their ability to eat algae. They can also reproduce significantly, making them a good Invert to trade! Great tank, now you've just given me more food for thought on what circulation system I want to use!

[msn711]

This little fella is known as a Stomatellid, largely unrecognised in the hobby, despite their ability to eat algae. They can also reproduce significantly, making them a good Invert to trade! Great tank, now you've just given me more food for thought on what circulation system I want to use!

 

Do they also appear in black? I found a black one in my tank that seemed to be eating away at whatever it could find on the rocks.

[jnarowe]

Sorry about the late response. I am still not getting notifications about this thread.

 

The Deltec/Merck test is available from Custom Aquatic. This is the least expensive place I know to get it and they currently have it in stock, as well as refills.

 

You are showing loss of color while getting good growth. So what does that mean? Typically that means something is out-of-whack, whether it be light or possibly an inhibitor like PO4. Tough to say but that definitely should be looked at closely. Could be a color spectrum change in your lamps. T5 lamps typically run hot and have shorter lives than halides, so I would read up on yours and see if that might be the issue. What spectrum are you using? And it's for 11" of water?

 

Stomatellae are great hitch-hikers! Trying to catch one is nearly impossible though as they will seperate from their shells easily and they are very quick to evade. They are also broadcast spawners so you may see a cloudy puff in the tank regardless of whether there are even any more in there. That should provide the corals with a little food, but I would run carbon if it doesn't dissipate quickly.

 

Great pics BTW!

[Mr Miagi]

Do they also appear in black? I found a black one in my tank that seemed to be eating away at whatever it could find on the rocks.

 

Yep, they can come in many colours. Mine bred well until a predatory worm started consuming them. Im hopeful they will come back. To see them out and about you really need to come out at night, thats when mine are most active.

[aparker]

You are showing loss of color while getting good growth. So what does that mean? Typically that means something is out-of-whack, whether it be light or possibly an inhibitor like PO4. Tough to say but that definitely should be looked at closely. Could be a color spectrum change in your lamps.

 

I don't think the spectrum of the lamps would have changed markedly over a 4 week period, esp since they are well within their projected lifespan (about 3 months old). I think another potential explanation is that the corals are changing color to adapt to the lighting in my tank versus what they were exposed to before I got them. The 'before' photos I posted were taken just a few days after receiving the corals, so reflect their response to whatever light source they were held under at the retailer (most likely MH).

 

 

T5 lamps typically run hot and have shorter lives than halides, so I would read up on yours and see if that might be the issue. What spectrum are you using? And it's for 11" of water?

 

 

I am using a mix of daylight and actinic bulbs, which is shown on page 2 of the thread I believe. I am planning to replace them on a roughly 12 month cycle, although I will stagger swapping them out by a month or so to avoid hitting the corals with a big bump in light by replacing all 5 at once. The tank is 12' deep with about 1" of sand, so total water depth is 11".

[aparker]

So I'm cleaning out my fuge a bit whilst acclimating the new critters to my tank water, and what do I find but teeny baby Nassarius snails! So they are successfully reproducing, at least to some extent.

 

Very cool.

 

New corals look good too. Pix later.

[aparker]

whilst acclimating the new critters to my tank water

 

Also worth noting that even when salinity is well-matched (DFS stuff routinely arrives spot on 1.025) slow acclimation is important. Accumulation of metabolic wastes inevitably drops pH - this batch arrived with shipping water at 7.65, versus my tank pH at 8.15. I take a good hour to slowly ramp it up.

[aparker]

Whatta deal - every time I order from DFS I get a free baby Mithrax crab included. Now that I have two of them, maybe they'll have babies? Or kill each other.

[jnarowe]

My mythrax have taken chunks out of my fish.

 

Depending on the lamps you are using, they could have had a sunstantial color change withing the first week of use. Did you (or do you) burn them in before you put them on your tank? I think it's a good idea to do so. You can get a down and dirty DIY setup to burn one before installing it.

 

Anyway, many top-notch reefers strive for pastel color corals, and some of the best use T5 lighting, so maybe your analysis is correct?

[aparker]

My mythrax have taken chunks out of my fish.

 

Depending on the lamps you are using, they could have had a sunstantial color change withing the first week of use. Did you (or do you) burn them in before you put them on your tank? I think it's a good idea to do so. You can get a down and dirty DIY setup to burn one before installing it.

 

Anyway, many top-notch reefers strive for pastel color corals, and some of the best use T5 lighting, so maybe your analysis is correct?

 

So far the Mithrax I have are too small to take chunks out of anything but hair algae (which they do eat). In fact, as I was eating dinner yesterday, I looked over into one of the many caves in the rockwork and noticed the Swissguard Basslet evicting the crab from it. He just kept charging the crab and doing the gill-flaring thing (just like a cichlid) until the crab had enough and went away. Fish apparently wanted the cave to itself. The Randall's goby is similarly dominant over the Swissguard - he has his cave, and he gets to be the only fish in there, or else.

 

Burn in? Do explain.

 

I'm not at the level of sophistication to be shooting for a specific coral color palette at this point! I am happy to be getting on top of maintaining appropriate water chemistry and having the darn things grow (remember that I've been a marine aquarist for a grand total of 3 months now).

 

The more I think about it, though, the more I feel that the color change is probably due to lighting change. Most of the bright pigments these things express are protective in purpose - to absorb or reflect UV. They were probably getting more UV flux where they were under MH lighting than they get from my T5s (even though the do get plenty of short blue wavelengths). It is interesting to note that some like the Montis and the Echinophora show greater evidence of rapid growth now than when I received them, suggesting that they may be receiving less UV but more PAR in my setup than in their former lives. Nevertheless, the UV/color connection does argue for one clear advantage to MH lighting. I might still do that on a future, larger tank - the current tank and its setting just make fluorescents much more practical for now.

[aparker]

Here's a quick rundown of new inhabitants. Getting close to a full house here, given that I need to leave room for these things to grow for at least the next year - the minimum timeframe before I want to deal with moving (req'd for bigger tank) or fragging stuff to keep it in check.

 

Acanthastrea hillae - A little worse for wear but a can't pass up deal at <$40. I think it will bounce back nicely.

 

Acropora granulosa - Wait 'till you see the placement scheme I've got for this one. Notice how all its polyps are growing out to one side already? it's ready to table out, with the right spot to grow in...

 

Green Montipora capricornis frag - a neighbor for the pink one.

 

Purple Porites - from TCN.

 

Finally, another can't pass up deal at a local shop, Aqua Addicts in Salem NH. Superman Montipora for $40. Not the brightest blue example, but again hopefully it will grow out well.

 

He had a really nice pink Echinophyllia that I may have to go back tomorrow and buy, esp since I am now reading Borneman on how easy they are to keep happy....

 

A few pix of old things:

 

Here's a shot of the staghorn Acropora that I could not focus on last week. It is at least 50% bigger than one month ago.

 

A cool yellow sponge and little Halimeda growing out from the rock my Echinopora is on:

 

I'll be after some FTS once all these guys are acclimated and put into their final spots.

[divecj5]

Awesome corals bud....are you buying them all local or are you still getting some from Drs. F&S?

 

Nice pics and great growth thus far.

[aparker]

Awesome corals bud....are you buying them all local or are you still getting some from Drs. F&S?

 

Nice pics and great growth thus far.

 

Thanks!

 

Some are DFS - they have not done me wrong yet, and are real easy to work with. Others are local, although here in Boston we don't have anywhere near the kind of LFS goodies that the So Cal contingent has. There are only three places within driving distance of where I live (<2 hrs) that have what I would consider to be livestock in acceptable or better condition, at least that I have seen, and only one (Aqua Addicts in Salem NH) that has good prices as well.

 

Speaking of good prices, I just got a killer eBay deal on an Aqua Medic dual dosing pump - $125, which is half what you see them for some places. I will set this up to dose 2-part. At this point I have to add it daily to keep Ca/alk/pH where I want it, and I have week-long trips coming up in Sept and Nov (Vancouver and London, lucky me), so there needs to be some sort of automation solution before then.

 

Oh, and I did go back and buy the pink Echinophyllia - it's super-nice. Pix later...