Set Up Questions - Undergravel Filters?

[southpaw23]

Thanx for the quick reply Kyle....i've been reading up alot on the lighting forum and have been getting some idea on the whole deal about lighting...sorta slowly putting things together.

 

But this is what i've come up with.....going to settle for two 36W PC (10k and Actinic Blue) And for your info....my tanks a 15g. Should the wattage and color temp be sufficient for most corals? I read somewhere that the general rule is to have about 5 watts to a gallon.....

 

Now all i've gotta do is firstly...find those freakin bulbs and secondly, find a way to install it into the built in hood....gotta figure out where i'm going to get the balast and perhaps the reflectors.

 

One last silly question for the day (it's night for me rite now) what's the difference between a VHO, PC and Compact Flourescent lights? i can't seem to find an explanation on this? anyone?......should i just post this in the lighting forum...or is someone out there kind enough to explain?

 

g'nite all.....

[offsprg01]

justphish.com has a good selection of bulbs for cheep. i heard nothing but good comments on him, in this forum. i plan on ordering my clean up crew from him later this week, or the first part of next week. as my tank is nearly cycled! whoo hooo! fastest cycle in the west. (i got live rock from the lfs placed it in a couple of 5 gal buckets and had them fill it with water from their lr tank, which i used to fill my tank with so as to try and avoid stressing the little critters in the lr. only had a mini cycle. i guess from the transportation.)

[duckhuntboy]

2 36watt PC's (or power compact fluorescents...same thing) will be great for your 15 gallon. The "5 watt per gallon" rule isn't really true. It depends on how deep your tank is compared with how much lighting you have, but your lighting will be sufficient. Your lighting will be great for soft corals and such. You'll be able to keep many many things, like mushrooms, zoos, capnella, ricordia, xenia, etc....

 

You won't be able to keep LPS most likely, and clams and things like that. VHO (very high output) I don't know much about, because I've never used them. I'm not sure, but it is either a standard fluorescent bulb, or the next step up, right below power compacts.

 

Sorry for knowing nothing about Malaysia, but do you get a pretty good deal on corals, being in the middle of the pacific and all?

 

One more thing: Are you good with woodworking? If so, you should build yourself a hood and a little base, and scrap that sucker you have on there. In my opinion (IMO), if you want to keep your hood, I think you should take all that filter crap out of the casing, have nothing but the shell, install your lights, a powerhead, and a cheap HOB filter (for occasional media, etc), and that's all you need. That filtration in your hood right now will probably work out fine, but I'd scrap it if I were you. It would cost you about 15 bucks to get a HOB filter and a powerhead combined. You'd get more controlled water current as well, and your lights would fit much easier. If you're set on keeping your filtration though, thats cool, but you'll still need a powerhead or two. Other than that, use your live rock as your primary filtration.

 

Let me know what you decide, and the PC's are a good choice. I gotta go tend to my "sick tank" now. I had a coral die in shipment, and I tried to revive him, but he messed up my tank with chemicals.....

[southpaw23]

Thanx again Kyle...will probably go with the 36w PC's then....but i'll probably try to incorporate it into the current hood as opposed to building another one....just to keep the setup neat and stuff...

besides....i'm not a big DIY'er....and woodwork's not my forte. On the side....how many watts would i require to keep clams and LPS?

 

Will also wanna keep the filter on the hood....would removing the filter floss and just having perhaps carbon in the casing help with the water clarity any? As for the flow....like i've mentioned earlier..i'll be replacing the current crappy pump with a PH that'll give me about 120gph....would that be sufficient flow for my tank size? so all in all, i was only thinkin of using one PH that'll work as a pump for my filter top as well as provide current (they actually have those in the my LFS) Should i look into getting a separate PH to provide more flow...and if so....how much gph?...

 

Don't know about the good deals on corals but if i'm not mistaken, my guy at the LFS told me that the cost anywhere between 20-50 ringgit (which works out to about 5-13 USD on ur side with the exchange rate at 3.8)

 

Surprisingly tho i can't seem to find my LFS that specialize in reef or saltwater tanks and fishes....and no worries bout the lack of info on Malaysia...will fill you in along the way...

 

oh and charlie.....thanx for the info on the website but looks like that won't work from me unless those guys deliver half way across the globe and still manage to keep the critters alive good job on the tank cycle tho.....wonder if my LFS would spare me about 15 gallons of tank water....and even if they did....how the heck am i gonna get it home....

 

Hope ur tank get's better Kyle.....

[duckhuntboy]

I usually run my filter with no floss or carbon, just use it to break up the surface water. If things get really bad (like if I am aquascaping or something) I'll throw in some floss to get it out, but the life on your Live rock will work as a great filter. It's a bit slower than floss, but does a better job. Carbon shouldn't hurt your tank, although there's people who have different ideas about carbon (search, and read up). I have a 120 G/h powerhead on my 7 gallon, and it's just right for me. What I'd do is get yourself two 100's, and shoot them from opposite sides. This works great to get rid of dead spots in the water column. Sounds like a pretty good price for corals. If you're having troubles finding a guy that sells corals, chances are he has a monopoly on the business, and don't listen to him without asking around the forums first. You could have a great, experienced LFS, but in my case, as well as many others, they are behind on technology, and don't know what they're talking about sometimes.

 

Clams are a totally different story, and lighting is not the only concern. You could (it has been done many times) keep a clam under that lighting, but they really thrive under MH's. The other, and bigger problem you'd run into, is calcium. Clams love their calcium. They also like to eat. I probably wouldn't do it until you've had a couple years of experience under your belt. LPS need good lighting also, and prefer metal halides. I don't know much else about them, just that my tank wont treat them like they should be treated.

 

The tank's getting better now, I think. I just did my 3rd water change, and that's helping...

 

Anyways, let me know about any more Q's.

[Keng Yew, Leong]

Hey Im from Malaysia too.Glad to see another nano-reefer.The filter you shown is just an overhead trickle filter,not a sump.Those things are really popular here and in South East Asia but not in other countries.You do not need an undergravel filter,a powerhead and a HOB would be enough.Your hood has little flexibility,for my nano,I made a DIY hood to fit in PC's and CPU fans.(they are around RM 100,you need it to cool your nano).It's hard to get a good brand of PC's here,most of them are made in China.There are some good PC's made by Phillips for reef's but they are only available at a shop in Ampang/Cheras...(hhehehe I bet people from other countries wont know what I'm talking about:happy: ).As for your VHO's they are available but expensive and not practical for a nano.

 

There are a few reef shops in Malaysia.Shame on you for not scouting about.Forget about clams and SPS here(they are RM 90 and RM 120-180 respectively).There is a specialized reef shop in Subang.The prices for corals are mostly RM35.Dont get cheated by them into buying an anemone(they love to push these to beginners saying that they are easy to keep and doesnt require much lighting).I have some frags too,maybe you can get some corals from me.For my 4 gallon nano ,I spent about RM 500-600 so be prepared to spend a lot for your tank.Its hard to reef in Malaysia on a shoestring budget of a student like me.

 

Feel free to PM me for advice on how to nano-reef in Malaysia.

BTW where do you stay Selangor,Perak,Pahang???

[southpaw23]

wait a minute! there's a reef shop in Subang??? Where at??? I live there and went scouting round the area and came up with nothing...and yes i did go look...where's it at? besides...i only started to take interest in this less that a month ago

 

anyways...it's good to know that there's someone in the area who know's my situation....but i can't thank Kyle enough for the input he's provided thus far....appreciate it bud....

 

so i'm still a stubborn one...will see what i can do with the hood i've got and see if i can incorporate the PC's in there....whatcha think?...am i fighting a losing battle or is it still doable? and about the trikle filter....i can't keep em? at where my tank's setup, i don't have space for a HOB filter...besides....don't think it's absolutely necesarry now is it? seeing that most of the filtration would be taken care of by the LR and LS. I figured the trikle filter would just help like Kyle said in breaking the surface water. one PH will act as a pump for the trickle filter and for the current and i'll add another on the other side of the tank just for the current...how's that sound?

 

lastly...would love to get some frags from you and eventually trade frags when i've settled into this properly. Private message me ur contact no...and maybe we can get in touch....

 

ps. can't end without one of my silly questions, what exactly is a frag...i have gotten some idea after reading many post (ie. a piece of a coral...to be as vague as i can) but how do you actually frag a coral?

[duckhuntboy]

Hey Kenny. I may have said your trickle filter will break the surface water (if you can get it to work) but chances are, you wont be able to fit your lights under the hood WITH a reflector AND your trickle filter. You'll probably have to downgrade your lights, or lose the filter, now that I think of it. Sorry about being unclear on that.

[southpaw23]

hey kyle....would it be inconceivable to just built in say a 75-100 watt bulb (50/50)....i'm sure i can get at least one PC in my hood.

my only worry is the heat that it'll be generating....probably need a cooler fan or sumthin....whatcha think? Keng Yew...ur input is welcome as well....along with any other's who's got a better idea...like i said...a little stubborn....

[offsprg01]

for cooling fans i used a blue led cpu fan. (it's what i had left over from building my computer.) i just wired it up to an old cell phone charger. you don't have top worry about getting the wires crossed as cpu fans are dc, and most chargers are dc. if you cross the wires the fan just runs backwards. all you need to be carefull of is making sure the charger you use is 12 volt or smaller. if it's smaller the fan will just run slower. the charger i used is 8.6 volt i think? and it cools my hood great.

[duckhuntboy]

Hey kenny. You're probably right. I'm sure you could fit a bulb up there. Just make sure you get the good enough lighting. I wouldn't skimp on lighting because you want to save the filter. If you're planning corals at all, you'll realize soon enough that lighting is the most important factor, IME. If you can fit a huge PC bulb up in the hood, definately go for it, and save the filter.

 

Also, offsprg is right about the cooling fan. It's not a big deal at all to drill a hole, screw in a fan, and drill some exit holes for the air to flow through. Your hood might even have adequate "exits" for the air. Just drill yourself a hole that will fit the fan, and mount it to the back. Buy a DC adapter, cut off the end, and wire it yourself, like offsprg said.

[offsprg01]

it looks like your hood is plastic right? if it is then you can't cut the holes need for the fan with a razor knife (score it pretty deep then just break it. it will break in a nice smooth line right along the scoring). if you don't own a drill you can make air flow holes with a pair of siscziors (think i spelled that right) all you have to do is press hard agians the hood with the point of them and twist them back and fourth. it only took about 30 sec. to "drill" each hole this way. thats what i did when retro fitted my 5.5 hood, becuase i left my tools at home in my car and all i had was my painting supplies so i improvised. also if you need to remove any plastic ribs from inside you hood when you possibly have to gut all or part of it the easiest way to do so is to take a pair of pliers and just tear them out. usually the tear right along the seams where the join to the hood, or with other spines. yuo can also use the scoring method if you only want to take out part of a spine. hope that helps

[onthefly]

When I had my reverse-flow UGF, it worked great and I could see the water flow up from the substrate in all areas of the tank. So the idea worked, but I did have considerably lower NO3 and PO4 levels once I switched over to a plenum and DSB

[southpaw23]

Thanx Kyle..i know i'm being silly with the whole hood deal...and it would probably be better to just get rid of it entirely....maybe even convert it to a hood but i was just sorta hoping to keep the setup as it is with moderate changes to the lighting hood...like i said previously...whether it's doable or not is another thing.

 

Do they even sell 75-100 watt PC's? what about metal halides? think i can fit one of those in there...my only worry is that it's a little too close to the water surface....don't MH need to be place a couple of inches above the tank?

 

As far as "exits" are concerned...they are built in to the hood of the lighting....will try and get a picture of that a little later today. Wait a minute....if you take a look at the second picture i posted with the view on the filter....at the bottom of the pic, you can see the air exits for the lighting....see it?

 

But i'm still thinking that i'll need a cooling fan to help out with the circulation in there.....and thanx for the info on setting one up Charlie...i'll let u know how it goes when i finally get around to disassembling it.....oh and should i be pushing air in our pulling air out?...i'm think pulling?....

[offsprg01]

mine pulls air out. if you run metal halide you could change the color temp a little by pushing or pulling cooler air over the bulb. so rember you want to cool the hood, not the bulb. i have no experience with mh accept in the electrical bussiness (it's what i do when i'm off of school for the summer) i use a cooling fan becuase i have a very big pc in a very small hood and it's a 48 watt bulb so it get really hot. the fan keeps if cool as ice though. i found out the cooling mh thing from a post on this site. it had a really good likn to a site that explained it in great depth. apparently mh bulbs are dsigened to run with out circulation of cool air around them. if you cool the bulb by circulating cold air over it the the halides condense on the glass and it changes the kelvon of the bulb as well as premature blackening of the bulb. turning the nipple down has a simmilar effect. do a search on the form and you should be able to pull up the thread.

[Keng Yew, Leong]

It's easier to buy a cooling fan rather than to DIY here.A dual fan that can clip on the aquarium sides cost around RM100 and a single large fan will cost around RM80.The large fan is harder to install because of its structure.

Your tank is only 18 inches I dont think it's a good idea to fit a huge PC in there.They dont sell retrofit kits here,if you plan on getting readymade ones,and 18 incher will come with a 18 watt PC.You can get an electronic ballast to light up NO bulbs.They dont produce much heat.Why not use 3 ,18 watt NO bulbs there.The Arcadia tubes seem to be really good to me,dont use Azoo they are dim.Metal halides are expensive here, a 150 watt Japan made bulb cost RM450 alone.Imagine the cost of a whole set,I estimate around RM1000+.Oh yeah,I think 36 watt PC's are 24 inches long,so it's not possible for your tank.

[southpaw23]

Sorry to hear about your tank there Charlie....hope it all works out for you in the end....good luck with the biznich at the LFS

as far as the fan is concerned....it does make more sense to pull air out as opposed to pushing air in...thanx bud....will go figure out how to set it up.....right now i've got more problems with the lighting.....

 

how in the world am i gonna fit enough light in the tank if i've got no room for PC's of that wattage?....and if i do go with normal NO bulbs....my casing has room for two and not three...gotta figure out how to add the other one....and i thought NO bulbs are not recommended for Reef tanks?....what's the dea? can i get away with 3 18w NO's? That's only 54Ws for my 15g tank? doesn't look like enough?....

 

Oh and still not sure where that reef shop is at? is it in USJ or SJ? SS what?....

[duckhuntboy]

I dont know what you guys are talking about, but you could try some NO bulbs. MH's do need to be placed higher above the tank usually. I would actually recommend setting up a cheap NO setup, and if it doesnt work, then you'll know you need to do something about it. I've even seen people use those PC bulbs that are curly and you plug into a light fixture. It's not the exact color you need, but you could still place a 10k and 50/50 NO bulb in with them.

[Keng Yew, Leong]

The Arcadia NO bulbs are supposed to be high output(not to be confused with very high output).The Marine White Lamp is 9500K so the spectrum is good.Most ready made hoods are not enough to support the amount of light needed by a reef aquarium.As you can see,there is no such thing as a nano reef in Malaysia only 25 gallon and above reef tanks with MH.So the only way to get enough light is to make your own hood.Why not try removing the filter to fit in another light.You said earlier that your bulbs are 14 inches.I think your light fixture needs to be changed to fit in an 18 inch bulb.Three NO tubes should be good enough for softies and some LPS.Trust me,Arcadia tubes are really brighter,I have seen glossostigma elatinoides growing sideways under a single 18 watt tube in a 10 gallon tank.

[southpaw23]

Sorry bout that Kyle....Keng Yew was just pointing out that the 36w PC's that i'm looking for only come in 24 inches in length and that's too long for my tank.....looks like 18inches might be too long for the hood too...damn lighting issues

 

gotta go do some research on the local stores and see what i can come up with.... :

[offsprg01]

i use the curly B2 base fixtures duckhuntboy was talking about. i found some 48 watt 6500k bulbs. they work great. generate alot of heat. these were called some type of power compact lights. i think you might be able to find some in your area. i had to go to almost all of the hardware stores on this side of dallas. the bulbs are really big as the balast is built in to the base. supprisingly enough it's the bulb not the balase that gets super hot. the cost me just under 10 bucks apeice. way cheaper than anything else i've found. you just have to put in some effort in finding the right color temp.

[southpaw23]

What's a curly B2 base fixture bulb?..sorry....not familiar....and if i were to do so....would i need to suppliment it with probably an actinic or 1k bulb to get the right temp spectrum?

[duckhuntboy]

 

 

I'm not sure if this is what offsprg was talking about (I think it was) but this is what I had in mind.

 

You do need to get the right temp like he was saying (probably 6500). They are just a cheap alternative if you can't find anything else.... Extremely bright for being so small, but they're not the perfect temp. They're good enough though. Just mount a little fan.

[southpaw23]

That bulb looks kinda odd....don't know if i'll be able to even fit it into the hood....but i guess i could go check it out...what's it called again? i don't think i can go to someone and ask em for a curly B2 fixture light can i?

[southpaw23]

Hey Kyle....this is out of topic but have you got pics of your nano? was curious to see how it's setup....post em on this thread if you do....same goes for you Charlie and Keng Yew.....later guys....