southpaw23 Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Hi all... Great forum....first off, i'm new to this forum and to the whole saltwater set up....but in my defense, i have been reading up alot on start one up etc Here's my thing, i'm thinkin of converting my fresh water tank to a saltwater and would appreciate your feedback on the plan. Current, i've got an approx 15g tank with the dimensions being 18x12x16. I'm from malaysia so the kinda tanks here might differ from the ones commonly mentioned in the forums. So anyways, it has a built in lighting and filtration system. I'm thinking that the lighting would probably need to be replaced with bulbs more suited for a saltwater aquarium, was planning on takin the whole lighting set up to a light shop and see what they can do for me there....There's currently two bulbs inbuilt (approx a feet in lenght) but i'm unsure of the specs. Does anyone know if it would be possible to replace the current bulbs with the ones required? Specs on the required bulbs would be appreciated but i know that i'll probably need to do more reading up in the lighting forums to be more specific with the requirements... As for the built in filtration....i'm going to have a bit of difficulty describing this due to the fact that i'm not too familiar with some of the terminology used but it's from a freshwater set up and it's situated at the top of the tank (i know i know...bad description). But my plan was to attach a power head to the filtration system, which would allow for two things to happen, one, create the flow required for the tank inhabitants, and two, pump part of the water through the current filtration unit to take care of the mechanical filtration part of the tank. Am i making sense here?....and if i am....would it work? Like suggested in the forum, the biological filtration aspect of the tank will be taken care of by the LR and LS. Though i have one more query....would adding an undergravel filter to the tank setup help in anyway? it was suggested by my guy from the LFS to assist in the filtration and i could really do with some insight/advice on this. Would the undergravel filter hamper or interfere with the growth of some of the bacteria required to grow or live in the LS?? Well, that's it from me for now...thanx for listening....many more thanx in advance for your input.... Link to comment
larsson Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Just another suggestion - make sure that no copper based medications were used in the tank previously, as this over time can kill invertibrates, if you plan to keep any. Link to comment
offsprg01 Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 hey i'm new to the whole salt thing my self, but i've been keeping fresh and brack tanks for quite some time now. anyway beside the point. the problem you'll have with running a UGF on a nano reef is the fact that most use live sand. sand is not gravel. i.e it just won't work. the power head will not pull water though the substrate evenly or efficently. this could creat "dead spots" in your substrate which if disturbed can foul the water in your tank. the best thing that i can reccomend is to change to some sort of hang on back filter, or as they just recently convinced me to do, don't use a filter at all, just let the lr and ls do all the work. hope that helps. Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 11, 2003 Author Share Posted April 11, 2003 Thanx for the advice larsson but no worries on that end as my tank's pretty new and there isn't any metal or copper linings in the tank....or any medication of that sort used at anytime.... As for your suggestion Offsprg01....so i should do away with the UGF? As for the HOB filter, i probably won't need that as i mentioned earlier, the tank came with an in built filtration system so i'm probably gonna stick with that and rely on the LR and LS to handle the rest of the filtration.... any feedback on combining the powerhead with the current filter? will that work? would i need another powerhead to make sure there's enouugh current? what kinda specs am i lookin at for the powerhead to be effective in my tank size?...i know...lotsa questions.....just wanna be sure i've done my research before i jump into this..... Link to comment
offsprg01 Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 i can't comment on combining you power head w/ your filter becuase i don't exactly understand how you other filter works. if you mean adding a power head to you tank in addition to you filter i probably would just becuase you filter probably won't circulate the water enough. if you caould post some pics of your filter set up and possibly you tank it would help. as to you ugf toss it. it won't do any good with you sand substrate. Link to comment
zizmans Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Not an expert on UGF's, but I don't know anyone who has one. I don't see how it could possibly work unless you used large aragonite or something. My advice is to ditch it. Without knowing the filtration system on your tank I can't comment, but, judging from your other descriptions of your tank...I'm guessing it would be sub par. Can you post a picture? If it's a skilter or something they REALLY don't do much. If you do some searches in lighting and DIY you should be able to handle doing your lighting changes (retrofit) yourself. It's really easy once you have the right parts. I say easy because you will find it explained to you in the DIY section. You will also find many links to exellent online distributorsmanufacturers for what you need. Also, I don't know how much a light shop would know about Reef lighting. Unless malaysian light shops just kick that much ass. There are a lot of ways to handle your lightingfiltration questions. Some more complicated than others. Maybe spend some time in the members nano's forum, really check out the systems closely. GL Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 12, 2003 Author Share Posted April 12, 2003 Here's a pic of the whole tank...take note of the filtration that's inbuilt in the tank.....not really in sight but you can see where the standard powerhead leads to...will post a couple more pics in the next replies Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 12, 2003 Author Share Posted April 12, 2003 Here's a top view of the filter...what's the terminology or name for this kinda filters?....so's i'm familiar next time someone uses the term.... Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 12, 2003 Author Share Posted April 12, 2003 Lastly, a look at the inbuilt lighting...correction, the bulbs are approx 14 inches in length....not sure of the wattage but i'm thinkin of replacing them with 2 VHO bulbs of the same length...wonder if the lighting place has that...and no zizmans, the shops over here don't kick that much ass at all Anyways...i'm kinda confused as to whether i should get two 60-70 watt bulbs or two 30-35 watt bulbs (read a suggestion somewhere that the general rule is for about 5 watts to a gallon) I'm to assume that if i do so, the color spectrum of the VHO's would be adequate for coral growth? Hope the pics help in giving ya'll some idea of where i'm coming from.... Link to comment
onthefly Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Is it just me, or is your sump in the hood? I don't see it in the "see thru" pic, but I see the PH and the spray bar......that is a trip! It could work nicely as a place to put your heater and maybe some charcoal (at times), but I'd stick another PH in the tank itself. As for the UGF, I ran one for a year (a LONG time ago), but it was a reverse flow and Ziz's is right, I had to use the big "coral chunks" in my tank (which are now decomposing in the wifes rose garden). Regardless, it worked great without any deadspots! I just caved to peer pressure and put a more current system in. As for yours, if the UGF would come out (either peacefully or with a hammer:D ) you might just throw some aragonite down on top of it. It will provide a safe haven for your sand critters. Who knows.....you might get some denitrification! I don't think you're going to fine VHO's for that hood: The ballasts probably won't handle them, only NO bulbs. However, It looks like you could DYI/Retro a 32W setup in there. Check around, many peeps have done the same thing in other stock hoods. Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 13, 2003 Author Share Posted April 13, 2003 Yes, onthefly, the sump (is that what you call it ) is incorporated in the hood of the tank...... what you see in the second pic is a top view of the filter, with the PH situated at the left portion of the pic. Since the PH wont supply the necesarry flow, i was plannin on replacing the current stock PH with one that can do both...provide the output flow as well as provide the intake to the sump. Seen models like those in my LFS...just note sure how strong a PH i'm gonna require for the size of my tank.... As for the UGF, no worries...i don't have one in the current tank setup.....was posting the question coz the guy at my LFS suggested that i put one in....looks like i'll give that a pass. Lastly the lightings....forgive the stupid question but what's the ballast and why can't it handle a VHO? So i'm to assume that a 32W VHO setup would be sufficient for the tank rite? Anyways...i suppose i could run around the lighting and DIY sections to get more info.....do appreciate all the input give tho.... thanx guys..... Link to comment
offsprg01 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 was that an arowanda in that tank? please tell me you are using it as a q/t tank right now. that's much to small for a fish that large and active. they can get to over 2 feet in length! they are great fish in much larger tanks. but way to big for the one pictured. Link to comment
ngericke Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 An arowanda HAS to be in a tank that is at least 250 g they can get well over 4 foot in length Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 13, 2003 Author Share Posted April 13, 2003 yes offspg...that is an arowana....a silver actually...and before i get slaughtered for animal cruelty.....the fish is being moved to a larger tank.....which is why i'm thinkin of starting a nano with the current tank.... when i got the lil silver it was barely 5 inches in length and didn't expect it to grow that quick....it's been barely past 3 months and he's gotten past a feet in length....but like i said...no worries...am plannin on moving him to a 3 or 4 foot tank soon..... Link to comment
offsprg01 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 cool cool. i didn't mean to sound like i was blastin you bro, just wasn't sure if you knew how big those things get. wish i could set up my big tanks so's i could keep one. *&%$ dorm policies. *&^$#@ one of the collest big fish sets up's i've seen had a couple of arawondas, a 2 foot pleco and a fahaka puffer. huge tank i forget the size though. it was a sweet setup. anyway good luck with the arawonda, and do you plan on keeping any other fish with him? if so what? just curious. Link to comment
bean Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 hey..sorry i'm rather late in here.. to me i think it's a overflowbox and water is being filtered out through a rainbar system. Link to comment
reefphreak Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Remove that Arowana right now dude! Damn, I thought I was bad by putting one in a 75 gallon but this one takes the taco!! A 15 gallon? Wait til I tell the other martians about this one. Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 No worries Charlie....and i am aware of how big they get but really didn't expect em to grow that fast....been out of the aquarium scene for sometime now and decided to start out small with the 15g and got captivated by the silver arowana and decided to get it....i thought i'd have at least a good 6 months before the lil one would outgrow the tank but guess i was wrong....as for as keeping other fishes with him....well, he's kinda aggresive (as is the species in general from what i understand...mine's just a lot spunkier) but he goes well with docile fishes like the silver dollars....haven't decided much on others as yet.... oh and i think bean's right.....so it's not a sump then....but an overflow box....now that we know this....will this even be useful in the future nano setup?....do i remove the floss and replace em with carbon like i hear ppl mentioning previously? input please?... as for reefphreak....hold on to ur taco's there buddy....the big fella's gonna be moved....... Link to comment
palaegic Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hmmm..... You have quite a puzzle tank there southpaw. Doesn't look like a sump or an overflow to me. Looks like the the pump pulls the water up from the filter stem and then into the spray bar which dumps the water into a filter tray with floss, or a pad. Are we getting warmer? The tray appears to have drip holes that flow back into the tank. To answer your question - You will find that general opinion is too avoid UG filters. The primary reason is that you end up pulling detritus and other suspended material into the substrate layer. It becomes a nutrient sink. This means a HIGHER level of dissolved organics in the aquarium, primarily in the form of nitrates. High nitrate levels are toxic to many reef inhabitants. Nitrates will also contribute to heavy algae blooms. You would be much better served by adding a protein skimmer rather than a UG filter. The protein skimmer pulls organic material from the water before it can be further broken down into organic compounds such as nitrate or phosphate. However, you will find many opinions against skimmers as well. Check out the information section of the site, and keep asking questions. Got nothing to do with reefing but I have to ask - any monitor lizards in your neck of the woods of Malaysia? Oh and hey ... nice arrowana Link to comment
anonymous Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 i think i understand what the LFS purpose of using the UGF. Its take it as a biological filtration. Just like you put in coral chip into the cannister and pump in water and passing thru all the coral chip. same theory as UGF. as to make thing more clearer, here is the explanation. UGF will have a tube, probably about half a itch size that attached to a 'platform' which you will place it on the lowest part of the tank, and usual conventional way is to pump in bubble via an air pump, creating a siphon of water thru the space allocated on the undergravel filter space. so instead of pump air on the tube, you attach a power head on it. so what ever on water on the sand bed surface will be passing thru and reaches UGF and pass out from the power. i hope my explanation is clear enough. im starting off with this setup with an external cannister running on ROWAphos and ROWAcarbon. and do a 'run-in' hope things work out fine for me during the cycle period. Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 I think you may just have gotten it Palaegic...that's as good a description as any...now the question is...what do i do with it? but good observation there... As for the UGF....i think i've come to terms that i'll do without it....but i'm not too sure about adding a skimmer to the whole system though...from what i've read....with a tank of that size...i can avoid high nitrate levels with weekly a WC (mark me if i'm wrong here) And yes there are monitor lizards around here....don't know of anyone who has one as a pet tho i do know of pet stores that sell iguana's and other kinda lizards.... Link to comment
duckhuntboy Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hey southpaw - First off, definately do without the UG filter, like everyone says. I've tried it with a sand bed, and it doesnt work at all. Second, about your lighting situation: Virtually any factory hood can be dis-assembled pretty easily and re-done yourself. I'm not sure what shipping costs would be to Malaysia from the states, or if you have the same types of light stores there, but you can easily do up the hood yourself. Read a bit about power compact lighting, and metal halide lighting. If you are going for a cheaper tank (probably about 65 bucks for lights) go for PC's. If you are thinking you want a large variety of corals, go MH. It all depends on what you want to stock your tank with. Most polyps, and soft corals will do great under PC lighting, and it's pretty cheap. If you go to a lighting store, but you don't know what you're asking for (do you know much about lights?) They'll give you the wrong types of lights, no matter how bright they are. You need lighting that aids correctly in photosynthesis. If you want a fish-only nano, your lights look like they'd be fine. Otherwise, get on hellolights.com, or ahsupply.com and look at what they have. Custom sea life sells retro-fit kits that come with a reflector and ballast, and you just put them right in your hood. Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 Thanx for the input kyle....i think i'll go fiddle with the light fixtures and see if it's easy to disassemble....but so you know...i'm not planning on shipping the lightings from the US...that'll hurt my pocket too much.....will try and obtain the lights from local stores once i've finally determined what kinda lights i'm getting.... hey...what about VHOs? will that cater to most corals? as you can see, i don't know as much about lighting as i should....which is why i've got alotta these silly questions....do try and bear with me i'll probably go with your suggestion on the PC's....but i'm still open to other opinions....if i go with PC's, how many would i need and what kinda wattage etc?.... Link to comment
southpaw23 Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 hey....got another question (silly as it might be), would my ballast be able to handle a VHO bulb?...coz if that's possible, then all i gotta do is replace the current bulbs with VHO's of the same length.....why do i get the feeling that this isn't gonna work....lemme know.... second thoughts...i doubt it'll work...will go with a retrofit if i can find one...will go talk to some lighting stores and maybe a couple of LFS that specializes in Saltwater setups this weekend.... Link to comment
duckhuntboy Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hey man, I have class, so I'll be quick. Get on AHsupply.com, and read a bit about power compact lighting, and the different color bulbs you can get. Also, i'm not sure if a ballast would be OK for a VHO light. In theory, it should if you are same power bulb, but don't listen to me on that, because I have no idea. You can get PC bulbs locally, but they usually aren't the right color for corals. They are too soft of a white. You could find some power compact utility lights, disassemble them, and only purchase the bulbs online. That's probably what you're going to have to do if you want to be as local as you can. I've never heard of any store (other than a fish store) offer the 50/50 bulbs you'd be looking for. If you have wal-mart, you could look at the 12 dollar utility lights they may have in stock there. If you don't, a hardware store might have them. With a tank like you have, (5.5, right?) You could get away with just two 13 watt fixtures.... Gotta run, sorry to cut short! Link to comment
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