STOP WILD COLLECTING

[Mr. Fosi]

Prop:

 

mahi mahi boy: My coral pathologist friend gave a presentation in our oceanography class today and guess what it was on... African dust and Caribbean reefs.

 

Anyway, I quizzed him after class but it was short because he was running late for a Doctor appointment. I promsed not to use his name (which doesn't help fact checking, PM me if you want the name of other researchers who work on this subject *wink*), but here are a couple more tidbits:

 

On the record

 

- African dust accounts for 3 billion tons (or tonnes) of soil deposition per year over and area spanning the Gulf coast of the USA to Brazillian rain forest

 

- Such dust carries a plethora of microorganisms that have been directly linked (by DNA sequencing) from dust in Mali to disease bands on Acropora palmata

 

- One such organism is the fungus Aspergillis sydowii which causes aspergillosis, a disease that kills a huge amount of Caribbean gorgonians every year

 

- Such dust can traverse the Atlantic in 5-7 days and does so at altitudes of ~3000-4500m

 

Off the record:

 

- the two diseases named Black Band & White Band are probably responsible for up to 50% of Caribbean coral mortality

 

- African dust is a major player in the distribution of those and other diseases

 

- It is still unclear if diseased corals become so as a result of opportunism brought on by other stressors or direct infection due to elevated microbe numbers. My friends opinion is that it is likely due to opportunism.

 

Additionally, these are things I have earned from my reading:

 

- These problems have been plaguing Caribbean reefs for millions of years (shown in the reef rock & sediment records) but anthropogenc stressors such as nutrient input, overfishing, and diver damage are relatively new. The combination of the old and new is probably what is causing the level of Caribbean coral mortality we see

 

- Many of these problems are unique to the Caribbean not only in terms of specific pathogens, but also in terms of impact scale. If you take a look at some of the data I presented in the phase shift presentation I posted (linky), you can see that Caribbean reefs are much less diverse in terms of organism functional groups. That means that the loss of one or two species can remove entire services or structural components, which can shift the entire organization of the reef ecosystem

[mahi mahi boy]

Fascinating. Not enough time to regulate herself.

 

I also read that years w/ more dust storms stunt the hurricane season.

[Randy]

This thread makes me vomit PPEs.

 

Get over it - or stop using paper (raping old growth forests), medicine (rainforests, hello?), and plastic (woo hoo, limited oil reserves!).

 

Crap or get off the pot - but don't be a hypocrite by chastising others for using wild caught or first generation corals.

 

Pfft.

 

Edit: that was in repsonse to the first post. You all should be talking about global warming in - shock - the global warming thread!

 

 

I side with you. I'm extremely sick and tired of the "oh I am so cool because I pretend to be environmentally concerned" people. The first thing I ask these people is "How many compact flourescent bulbs do you have in your home?". Typically their answer is none, or it doesn't make enough difference. Then I ask how often they take the bus, again I get a similar answer. Then I ask how the feel about immigration (which is the driving force to population growth and that growth is tied directly to more consumption) and they typically support mass immigration. So why is it that they take no actions to reduce their consumption of energy or products, but also support policies that are contrary to the so called goal they desire? Because they are nothing more than a crowd following jacka$$.

[Mr. Fosi]

I also read that years w/ more dust storms stunt the hurricane season.

 

I'm going to guess that it isn't due to the dust, but that it is due to different surface circulation patterns.

[Six]

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...mp;#entry972612

 

um... since when did they aquaculture blue hep tangs?

 

 

 

 

booya.

[The Propagator]

Ummm.. Six ? What in Gods name are you talking about and why here? No on eis offering an "aquacultured" blue hep tang here or in the link you gave Boo... what? LOL!!!

 

 

 

 

FOSI,

Thats interesting stuff mane !!!

your last coment is EXACTLY why I am so big on professional and liscensed collecting only in FLA waters and the Caribbean.

 

A: There are only around 75-80 active and liscensed comercial collectors in the FLorida Caribbean and in the entire state of Florida for that matter.They know ho wto collectg so as to sustain the colony for future harvesting. After all its thier lively hood ya know.

 

B: There are millions of tourists, and hobbiests. If we keep letting them collect "liesurely" then they will keep f-ing up the reefs and contributing MAJORLY in making the reefs not as likely to with stand the same dust thats been hitting them for millions of years befre we came along and a myriad of polution sources.

[mahi mahi boy]

TP, I think six was calling out Pship for having that tang, there's a tang in that tank inside that link six directed to. At first I was like..."say-wha" too

 

Jeeeez.... Someone takes too many hermits and they could potentially destroy a line of SPS. (maybe ) The food chain down there must be precise to the umpteenth degree?

 

edit: Plus, the introduction of new species. They have so many canals in peoples backyards, a perfect place for them to dump their aquariums. It's normal to catch an Oscar and peacock bass. Next thing you know Ken has wild collected Tonga snails for sale.

[chuckfullservice]

African dust accounts for 3 billion tons (or tonnes) of soil deposition per year over and area spanning the Gulf coast of the USA to Brazillian rain forest

Hypothesis , conjecture or theory ?

Fosi my avatar could pass for the son (or daughter not really sure) of your avatar !

[Mr. Fosi]

Hypothesis , conjecture or theory ?

Fosi my avatar could pass for the son (or daughter not really sure) of your avatar !

 

Estimate based on satellite imagery and analysis of existing soil, as far as I know.

[The Propagator]

Chuck Noris and I weighed it. Its true.

 

 

[PseudanthiasVentralis]

"Why are all you people collecting"

 

All us people? how about you speak for yourself and shut the ###### up. i never have even been in the ocean alright. stop whining on the internet and go DO somthing. stop being a ####### E-hippie and go DO IT!

 

HAHAHAHAHA hippies are funny

 

 

Hahahahaa, yeah. I was going to tell him to move his post to "The Sump" since it is using such an attacking tone, but then I remembered that this is nano-reef and not reefs.org..........

 

Reefs.org sucks they banned me because i spoke out against this guy explaining how fun it is to dump baby seahorses down the drain...

 

Strong

Well,lif the coral reefs are diminishing.Why don't they just make giant prop/growing factorys in japan and in california and definatly the australian coastline and help replenish the coral reefs?

 

Right on!

 

Some things i would like to put in to this "flamefest" is have you ever seen the aquaculture industry? The fish are kept in horrible condicion, If the breeders dont think a fish is good enought then they kill it.

 

And have you ever thought about this, If the reefs do die out we have taken from them and in the future We will have to put the corals back (if and only if the reefs die out).

 

Another thing is if you realy care about the reefs dont have a fish tank, If you realy think you are causing the reefs death then shut your tank down or dont buy any thing else.

 

You say in the first post that you should buy frags, Most frags come from wild colonies but these first generacion frags make it so only one coral has to be taken from the ocean instead of one for every frag.

 

As for the being mean part, Why? Why be mean it make you feel bad its makes the other person feel bad so why?

 

The fact is that corals are bleaching, its a natural think for every few hundred year a reef to die back but not all corals die.

[Caesar777]

Fosi, have you read anything about what causes the African dust storms? Is it human-caused in any way? (partially or wholly) And how? Like I said, I saw the thing about the cattle but that can't be the only cause. It just exacerbates the problem, perhaps?

[PseudanthiasVentralis]

One flamed person after another.....

 

Sad so sad

[Mr. Fosi]

Most of the the dust for the storms come off the Sahara (as per my friend), but there has been considerable discussion about the possible impact of overexpoitation of forests and grasslands. I haven't read any of the primary literature on this subject, so I can only report what I have seen in the news/Discovery/TLC and what my pathologist friend says...

 

Of course, 2 million years ago there weren't people keeping cattle in north Africa, so you can't say that desertification (anthropogenic impact) is the ultimate cause of the storms, but it is also impossible to say that it isn't currently a contributing factor. My guess? It doesn't help the situation, but anything short of turning the Sahara into something less arid won't stop of the storms, which is why they have been happening for millions of years.

 

However, one of the things that my friend thinks that one of the things that contributes to the creation and distribution of disease agents is that people in northern west Africa fertilize their fields with anything including human fecal matter... That probably causes more than respitory infections, know what I mean?

[Samoyed]

The reefs aren't disappearing because of collection for aquaculture in the USA, Europe, and Japan; it's because of the natives dynamiting the reefs, global warming, pollution, and a host of other human-caused problems. Us taking corals really makes a minimal impact. That, and there are collection limits (CITES, mostly) which get tighter every year, along with more mariculture (basically the native person takes a tip off a coral and grows it out in a pen, then sells us the adults, rather than just collecting colonies from the wild, thus saving whole colonies by just taking little tips)... So get the facts straight.

 

Plus, having frags for sale in the classifieds along with this short, pointless OP is pretty ridiculous. I'd say you ought to GET A JOB.

 

PWNAGE

[The Propagator]

More like miss-informed.

[chuckfullservice]

I find it startling that something we will never have control of can cause so much damage . Has there been any talks with the African Gov. about the possiblity of the farmers using nontoxic manure? Or maybe they could use calcium and other reef benefitting minerals ?

Just a thought!

[jeremai]

the African Gov.

Which one? Which regime? Who on Earth could convince them all to agree on anything?

[Caesar777]

They're too busy deciding who's too black or not black enough and who doesn't have the right natural crimping in their hair....

[Goby Dick]

From Shirley Aquatics online store, UK:

 

The great Barrier reef is the worlds largest living reef formation, reaching out 2000km north to south along Australia's North East coast. An estimated 50 million tons of coral is produced naturaly by the reef each year.

 

All reef building corals are exported from their origin under certain licenses and government restrictions. Australian licenses allow 50 tonnes of coral to be collected and exported each year. Records show that only 15 tonnes are actually collected and exported.

 

THE SIZE OF THE CORAL COLLECTION AND EXPORT INDUSTRY FROM THE GREAT BARRIER REEF IS SO INSIGNIFICANT THAT:-

 

The allowable quota for the most frequently collected hard coral (pocillopora damicornis) would fit comfortably in a 3M x 2M x 2M garden shed.

 

 

The harvest of corals on the great barrier reef occurs in an area that covers 0.003% of the barrier reef itself.

 

 

The total permitted harvest of corals is 50 tonnes per year, one millionth of the total annual coral growth.

 

 

A number of Internationally distinguished scientists have found that the Australian coral fishery, is ecologically sustainable and poses no threat to the future of the Great Barrier Reef.

OTHER FACTS ABOUT CORAL USAGE FROM AROUND THE WORLD

 

The Airport runway for the Maldives was constructed from coral. A process that involves taking corals in their masses from the ocean, drying them out, and then crushing them up to make concrete.

 

 

Millions of tons of coral are used in this fashion on building and construction sites all around the worlds coral growth corridor.

 

 

A great deal of effort and research is being done around the world by our industry to build up artificialy constructed reefs.

 

 

Building and pollution are the two main culprits for the destruction of vast areas of coral reef.

 

 

Coral growing in the States is already a fast growing hobby, with displays and information helping to enlighten the general public as to the nature of coral reefs.

 

 

Some exporters already use sustainable reef techniques where by corals are grown to replace the ones taken from the wild, in some cases even helping to repopulate neighbouring reefs that have been previously decimated.

 

Ade

[Mr. Fosi]

The GBR facts and figures are not representative of the rest of the south-west Pacific nations, since Australia, as a nation, recognizes the imprtance of the GBR to both their tourist industry as well as global marine biodiversity.

 

Collectively, the US and Australia were responsible for more than 66% of the worlds marine reserves before President Bush created the worlds largest marine reserve north and west of Honolulu.

 

I would like to see some more facts from places like the Marshall Islands, Fiji, Tonga, and the Phillipines.

[The Propagator]

I supose we all forgot about the bleaching orcurring right now on the GBR that is susposedly visible from space ?

[ezcompany]

The GBR facts and figures are not representative of the rest of the south-west Pacific nations, since Australia, as a nation, recognizes the imprtance of the GBR to both their tourist industry as well as global marine biodiversity.

 

Collectively, the US and Australia were responsible for more than 66% of the worlds marine reserves before President Bush created the worlds largest marine reserve north and west of Honolulu.

 

I would like to see some more facts from places like the Marshall Islands, Fiji, Tonga, and the Phillipines.

 

like most developing countries, the Philippines have a ban on collecting corals and wildlife from their reefs. however they just don't have the budget to enforce it. cyanide and dynamite are still being used in remote areas with devastating effects. there is nothing more despairing than seeing a bleached dynamited reef.

[jeremai]

like most developing countries, the Philippines have a ban on collecting corals and wildlife from their reefs. however they just don't have the budget to enforce it. cyanide and dynamite are still being used in remote areas with devastating effects. there is nothing more despairing than seeing a bleached dynamited reef.

Same with the Marshall Islands and Fiji. The laws are in place and most native collectors adhere to quotas and sustainable collection methods, but there is no way for tiny nations with their miniscule incomes to enforce everyone.

[Randy]

I find it startling that something we will never have control of can cause so much damage . Has there been any talks with the African Gov. about the possiblity of the farmers using nontoxic manure? Or maybe they could use calcium and other reef benefitting minerals ?

Just a thought!

 

I hate to be a ball buster here, but I feel I have to do it.

 

You do realize the we are the most consuming and wasteful nation on the planet? It always easy to point the finger and blame another nation, but I prefer to see people recognize what they are doing wrong, correct it and then point a finger at others. We have a population that is growing at an astonishing rate, current estimates say we will have another 100 million people in America in the next 35 years. Are Americans doing anything to stop that from happening? A few are, but most are standing aside and letting rampant immigration and poor use of birth control continue us in a horrific direction.

 

I don't blame Africa, the Philippines, Tonga or any other nation as much as I blame my own. Until we provide the exampple we can't expect anyone in the world to listen to us speak about being environmentally aware.