Nanocustoms ICA (Integrated Chill Assist)

Hi everyone.

I am proud to announce the presale for the Nanocustoms ICA Device (Integrated Chill Assist).

It works using thermoelectric technology, and plumbs inline to your return feed. By running your return water through this device, realize up to up to 20w of cooling anytime the device is on.

I have been running this device integrated into my 70w MH Prototype and I have been extremely impressed with its performance. Running with a reefkeeper, I have it chill the water overnight down to 75F.

The days start at 75 F and creep up slowly throughout the day. I end the day at 78 F with a 13 Hour photoperiod (+ 2 hours of actinic sunrise/sunset) and ambient temps in the mid 74-75. (For comparison, i used to run 86 at the end of a 10 hour day).

The device really takes advantage of the fact that the morning temps start low.

I will be offering this at:

http://nanotuners.nanocustoms.com/nanotune...&products_id=79

For the "nanotuners" introductory price of 79.95 + Shipping.

I have a version for the 6g in development, so stay tuned..

Nice!...

SWEET!

Edit: Posted questions in open discussion

Jawesome. Is it terribly noisy?

It's not horribly noisy, but you can hear that its on. Its a 60x10mm fan, so its on par with the noise level of my "Fuge" light equipped systems.

I am working on adding a fan speed adapter to control fan speed based on temp.

With the MH (probably the hottest mod) I have all the fans turned up and at max power to keep the MH cool. By adding the ICA, it didnt add extra noise.

With lower wattage versions, it would be safe to use a variable speed AC adapter to reduce fan noise. The important thing to remember is that the fans are keeping the Heatsink temps in check.

Chris

I assume this also works on the 2004 model 24g by replacing one of the fans (and cutting the splashgaurd as necessary)? Does it improve cooling between the hood and the splashgaurd as well?

Do the cooling fins protrude from the top of the hood? Or are they sealed inside of the splash guard?

Is that rust on the chiller?

since this is a brand new product and we can't rely on past users to give us their long term experience w/ the ICA, could you post the raw data/results of performance tests? It's not clear from what you have posted exactly what it is capable of doing.

Or here's a simple/minimal performance test you could try out to supplement yours:

1. Control: run the nc w/ just lights, pumps, and saltwater. no heater. no chiller. keep the thermostat for the room at a constant 78 degrees. Start writing down the temperature of the water inside the tank (use a digital therm w/ probe so you won't have to lift the hood), 3 hours before the light turns on. Then you note the temp every hour until 3 hours after lights turn off at night. Do at least 2 runs (the more the better for statistical significanec). Pumps should stay on 24-7 and lights should follow normal photoperiod.

2. Do all of the above, but this time have the chiller plugged in 24-7 as well. and of couse the ambient temp must stay at a constant 78 degrees just like the control group. Track the temps at the exact same times (every hour) as the control group.

3. Do all of the above, but this time w/ a heater. Have the heater's thermostat set to 78 degrees as well. So it will shut off and start on whenever the water temp rises above 78 or drops below 78. Have the ICA run 24 hours a day. so constantly on. Track temps same like the above 2 and also for the same period of time w/ ambient constant at 78.

4. For the last run, I'd suggest setting the heater and ICA on a thermostat like the reefkeeper. So they'll each turn on or shut off to maintain tank water temp of 78 degrees. Keep ambient the same - constant 78 degrees - and once again, track the temps same way as the above and don't open the hood at any point. And like all of the above, pumps should run 24-7, lights normal photoperiod, and use saltwater.

If you have the raw data for all of the above, you can better determine it's capabilities.

Ideally, you could even do all of the above, but set the ambient temp at a constant 82 degrees (since socal temps often reach this high during the summer). And ideally (tho more difficult to keep up w/) you could take down the temp at shorter intervals.

And there must be a light cycle since that will affect the natural temperature gradient rather than having ambient temperature fluctuations skew the results.

Just a suggestion to help limit the variables and focus on the ICA's performance alone. And this way you can also determine how effectively it can help not only chill, but also keep the temp stable - since a constant/stable temp is equally important for a reef as the exact temp itself. It would be ideal to minimize the temp swing in a 24-hour period to just 1 degree...maybe 2 at the most.

He's done all that, you just have to read his other threads about it, it's not like he threw this together overnight and is selling the next day.

my bad I guess I missed the thread. can I get a link?

Thanks for the comments and questions. To start, let me explain that my educational background is in Mechanical Engineering. One of the most important concepts that must be concrete in Mech Eng is thermodynamics and heat transfer. At my Alma Mater, UC Irvine, we have whats billed as the "largest" Thermal Energy Reservoir west of the mississipi.

Basically, at UC Irvine, they chill water overnight when electrical rates are lowest, store this "chilled" water overnight, and pass this cold water through heat exchangers to help keep buildings cool and energy costs down.

Part of my inspiration for this device was to increase the thermal capacity of the water. Given that most owners would prefer to keep the lid down, there are a couple of ways to increase this capacity.

1. Increase volume

2. use a heat pump to chill water overnight.

So here we are. 5 months after my first attempts and we are a few weeks from launch.

Thanks for the support/critique.. Keep em coming guys...

Esper- This can be added to the 24g with very little modification since the 24g has no splashguard near the fans.

Stoney- Yes, the fans protrude about 8 mm down below the splashguard. I had a lower profile heatsink, but TECs are dominated by heatsink performance. It will help ventilate the "convection zone" and help with oxygen exchange. There are some risks with this scenario, and i recommend sealing up the interface to prevent salt creep.

Bobbozr2 - Yeah, its rust. I have been using the compression fittings that came with the unit. I have found however, that the compression of the tubing is enough to keep it in. Production models will not have the fittings, just a compression fit.

Tigah- I have done some significant testing of this unit since late Jan. I have probably put in close to 300 hours with control groups before I started thermally loading the unit with lights. At first, i started with a lower rated TEC and ran trials on a 3 gallon "test vessel" i saw that temps were able to drop down to 10F below ambient so I simply extrapolated the results to help choose the right TEC for the job. When i got it on the 12, i found that the performance data correlated to what i was expecting, and it actually got better once we started loading it thermally.

I have spoken to some industry leaders in the computer chilling biz and most of them told me that it wouldnt work. The heatsink will melt, the water wont cool, etc etc..

It pulls a steady 20w out of the system anytime its on.. We arent looking for transient response times in the 1-2 second range, so their estimates of performance were not in range of what we needed.

When I addressed the Delta T (temp drop) we needed, most think that we need the tank to go from 80-75 in a heartbeat. This is the little engine that could.. During the days, it removes 20w and the lights contribute something like 27w, so we have a net 7w going into the system. Because we start the day at a lower temperature, we have a cushion to work with, that the lights have to "fight" to heat.

I was in doubt of its performance at first, but over time I was able to see what changes needed to be made to optimize performance.

I used a BK precision variable voltage power supply to monitor and determine the peak operating parameters for this particular heatsink/TEC combo.

A funny thing with TECs is the hotter the heatsink gets, teh better it can move heat across. Some other peculiars about the TEC is that the "optimal" voltage/amps can be determined by finding the voltage/amperage that yields the coolest temps. I found that when i loaded the heatsink with the heat from the 70w MH, my performance actually increased.. Its counter intuitive, but works nonetheless.

I have posted a significant amount of data, but requested that that thread, originally entitled "Nanocustoms TEC Chiller" be removed to help protect some intellectual property.

In addition, that unit used a different waterblock, which i found to be minimally effective compared to the current setup.

I have done lots of research regarding this unit and am confident that thermodynamically it will perform.

The next steps are to design a controller that will allow the temperature to be set and thats it. TECs have the ability to heat/cool, so I'm talking to Digital Aquatics (Reefkeeper) to possibly help with the design of the controller.

Thanks,

Chris

For ambient increases. Shhh. dont let my GF know.. I kicked the heater up to 84 in my apt. My tank topped out at 81 at the end of a long photoperiod (started day at 76).

In comparison, my girls modded 6 hit 87 and was climbing. Needless to say, we lost our fish in the 6.

Can you guys keep quiet?

Chris

Also, to find out how much cooling you need (cube or not), go to:

http://www.aquasales.com/techinfo/heatcalc.html

Put in your hottest temp and desired temp, volume, and time to pull down, and you can find the watts of cooling you need.

Chris

Chris,

you mentioned the chiller could also be operated in reverse as a heater...could this cool the hood? (if it was inside the splash gaurd?)

...and thanks for the reply! that's exactly what i thought.

Chris,

Just read your thread and I am so honored to be ready to jump on another positive turning point with JBJ cubes. Your modes are the best...

Can't wait to pre order mine. I'm in the Los Angeles area running an errand for my little brother and his girlfriend.

I fly back to SF Monday night...

Maybe I can drop by and check out your proto-type...

Mike

One question for you, can you use the ICA with a fuge light?

Chris, Will this work with the 12g Nano Cube DF? If so I will be purchasing an ICA very soon. Thanks -Mark

Chronicles - Yes. It will fit back there as long as there is one slot for the fan that is available. You also need about 10mm of clearance around the fans for wires, etc.

Soonerfan51 - It SHOULD. I havent tried it yet, but i will when i get in the shop today.

I am working on some performance charts right now to be able to determine just how much this ICA can help. Important things to realize is that this device is billed as "Chill Assist" instead of a "chiller" because it can only assist in getting 20w out. If you are in dire need of more power, a conventional chiller may be the only way to go.

It (ICA) will offset temps caused by your pumps and accessories and will help work against your lights.

There is no substitute for a conventional chiller, esp if ambients are in the 90s.

As nanocube owners, we realize that its impossible to keep these things at ambient at just about any time of day... The pumps contribute too much heat and the glass cant get rid of it fast enough.

Hope this helps

Chris

Chris

chris, thats what i call pure dedication , when you sacrifice your gf's tank/fish for this project hehe

Just wondering. The "water block" that the water is being pumped through seems like one used for computer that implement a water cool system for the CPU. Is there any issues with corrosion happening in the block itself and contaminating the tank? To my knowledge of modding PCs the blocks are usually made of aluminum or copper to maximize the heat transfer from the Petier to the water block.

This was a primary concern for me with this project. The stock anodizing is Type II anodize, which has fair corrosion resistance properties, but is mainly a "cosmetic" anodize.

I had the pieces stripped and reanodized with a marine grade hard anodization that will be able to hold up to the saltwater.

The other factors that work to our advantage are that the saltwater is in continous service through the device, so there is very little chance of oxidation occuring inside of the device.

Hope this helps

Chris

So, have the insides also been anodized with the marine grade hard anodization?

Any plans to make a bigger unit?

BTW, thanks for the quick reply

Originally posted by soju

Just wondering.  The "water block" that the water is being pumped through seems like one used for computer that implement a water cool system for the CPU.  Is there any issues with corrosion happening in the block itself and contaminating the tank?  To my knowledge of modding PCs the blocks are usually made of aluminum or copper to maximize the heat transfer from the Petier to the water block.

Good point. It looks like Zalman's ZM-GWB1 waterblock for VGA chips. They are made with pure aluminum. Now, Is water running thru that block from tank? Is it tank water thats being flow thru the block? Then I see a big problem. T

When one sets up water cooling system, they are told to use distilled water because tap water might contain some things that will corrode aluminum. Can U imagine salt water running thru aluminum block? We even add additives that will help lubricate the water cooling system and help act as corrotion resistant. As additives we put in Automotive Engine coolant or "Water Wetter" to insure metals don't corrode.

Now if we take measure for making sure fresh water don't corrode water blocks, then saltwater is definate no no.

Originally posted by ccjung

The other factors that work to our advantage are that the saltwater is in continous service through the device, so there is very little chance of oxidation occuring inside of the device.

Thats same idea in PC water-cooling also. Water never stays. Its constantly circulating. I have been in to water cooling pc for many years and should see some of the blocks I take out. Corroded to the MAX!

soju- yes, the insides are the area of most concern since they are in contact with the water. We'll see on the "bigger unit", because this is a chill "assist" device, its performance is dictated by operating conditions. I can potentially see issues when the tank volumes are greater than 40 gallons or so, since the power supplied to a TEC that large would be significant, it may be more worthwhile to go with a conventional chiller.

oogie- I had the pieces hardcoat anodized. for a description of the process: http://www.nimet.com/processes.php?process...ardcoat_anodize

My next run of blocks will be hardcoated and PTFE (teflon) injected.

I think in the case of the PC components, since they are so competitive and volume driven, thye have to cut corners in fit/finish. the Type II anodize "looks nice" but offfers marginal corrosion resistance, so thats probably why you had so many corroded waterblocks. That coupled with the fact that most likely you had copper or other piping for your radiators which may have added to corrosion or caused galvanic corrosion to occur from electrons transferring from dissimliar metals.

Ideally, the blocks would be made of titanium, but that may be prohibitively expensive. Once production numbers make it possible, i will be designing a dual or triple pass waterblock out of titanium or stainless and then coated.

the reality is, only time will tell, but i think the anodization method (although a bit pricier) will give us much better chances than the stock Zalman waterblock.

Hope this helps

Chris