Clownfish laying down and breathing rapidly

[AWillroth]

Had theese two snowflakes in my tank for about 3 days. Today the smaller one has been breathing rapidly and didn't eat. Now he's laying on the sand breathing very rapidly and doesn't look good at all. Tank is a month old. Ammonia is zero. Salinity is .022 and temp is 79. Help!

[Coastie]

Nitrates? Nitrites? PH?

[AWillroth]

I unfortunately can't provide those. I don't have tests for then and the lfs is closed on Sundays. The clown just tried to swim and ended up upside down...

[Maniu]

Can you do some serious water change?

[tibbsy07]

Is it scratching on rocks at all? If so it could be amyloodinium infection

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/sp/feature/ - treatment and some info

 

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic64603.aspx - more info

[Angel<3Nanos]

could also be very low Ph.

[Havok_9]

What kind of water are you using? I'm still new to the hobby, but I've been in this exact situation with a clown I lost. I botched a water change, using tap water I had let sit out for 48 hrs and then used treatment on it thinking it would be fit to use. Lost my black o. clown and induced a horrible cyano bloom. He did the exact same thing you are describing, "panting" and unable to swim or hold himself up properly. Needless to say I felt pretty terrible. Now its strictly only RO/DI..

 

And .022 seems a little on the low end for salinity if I'm not mistaken? I keep mine right around .026, I remember reading that reef tanks are better kept on the slightly higher side.

[metrokat]

If they were gasping on the surface it would indicate lack of oxygen in the water but gasping on the sand is most likely indicative of impending death. Does the other one show spots ? Stringy poop?

[Maniu]

I agree but since he doesn't have access to LFS att, the only thing he can try in act of desperation is massive water change. It def won't hurt in this situation.

[GoCatGo!]

Can you post a picture of your tank?

 

Go to any store... petsmart sells API kits, which are acceptable. How much water did you change at the end of your cycle? Were you monitoring your cycle? Are you using a hydrometer or refractometer? Hydrometers are terribly inaccurate. Better to spend $ on better equipment and testing supplies than (literally) flushing $ on expensive fish.

 

Could be not enough oxygen if you have poor circulation... could be any number of things. We need more info.

[Maniu]

It is SUCH A WASTE of some amazing livestock due to lock of knowledge, cutting corners and rushing things with new setup.

[AWillroth]

Unfortunately the fish passed. I do regular water changes with pre mixed ro from my lfs. The usher clown and my wrasse seem to be doing fine. Anything I should do from Here?

[Tamberav]

Did you use epoxy putty in the water? I saw you asking about glueing rocks already in the tank. I have done this twice with reef safe putty and both times one of my fish had a bad reaction (but the other fish were perfectly fine). The first one was my clown and she was laying on her side in the sand gasping. The 2nd time was my dragnet who was gasping at the surface and even let himself get stuck to the overflow box. I will no longer use that stuff in the water.

 

Both my fish survived but I did a massive WC for the clown and for the dragnet, I had a QT tank already set up so I netted him and put him in there. They both recovered quickly (with-in a few hours).

 

Just a though in-case you used that stuff. My other fish or corals never suffered any adverse affects so no idea why these particular fish did.

[AWillroth]

Yeah, I had been using that putty. Not fir a few days, though. The other clown is acting a but funny now. This sucks. Pretty much a worst case scenario, this happening on a sunday. I did a water change, just in case its nitrates or something. The Wrasse, the Inverts, and the coral all seem just fine, though. I'm really thinking a parasite is the culprit. Do I need to QT the Wrasse and go fishless for a bit?

[andersonkc]

I do not have experience with this so I will not comment, but a word of advice as I am also a newbie in the hobby - over prepare yourself. This hobby isn't cheap. Everyone is so excited (even myself) to get some kind of livestock in the tank, but we must prepare ourselves with the correct tools to diagnose problem.

 

Have these forums and the active people on it have been a big help in my reefing experience.

 

Have Test Kits for:
Ammonia

Nitrate

Nitrite

Phosphate

any other for specific care for your live stock.

 

Have Plenty of:

Salt Water

Freshwater (non-tap)

[AWillroth]

I did have 5 Gallons of Salt Water on hand, thats how I did the WC. I'm going to buy test kits, but I have a good relationship with my lfs and have been able to go there for water testing. Its just this happening on a day theyre closed thats unfortunate,

[Formula462]

see this is why I have been inactive for this long. it never changes.

[AWillroth]

you all kind of suck. Not everyone has unlimited money to their at the hobby. My other livestock all seems fine and I'm coming here for help and most of you only seem concerned with the idea that I don't have test kits or a qt.

[ninjamyst]

how big is your tank? have the clowns been eating in the past few days? you mentioned ammonia is 0. when was the last time you tested that? has anything else died recently in the tank? like snails or something. any white spots on the fish?

[GoCatGo!]

If you read the posts everybody is trying to help. Even telling you what you lack is helping. We can't help you if you don't give us information. These forums are to supplement your hobby. They aren't here to teach you how to do it from square one. There are plenty of books for that. Don't let comments pointing out bad things get you down.

 

Now, for harsh reality: LFS love people that are brand new and don't know what they're doing. They are happy to sell you fish, watch them die, then sell you product to fix the "issue"... before selling you more fish (see the pattern?).

 

It is unlikely there is some mysterious disease plaguing your fish. Like I said, the people here want to help but can't without more info. Go to another LFS or pet store and get a test kit. People are going to be rude if you ask for help and don't provide details. While you are there buy a book for beginners (that wasn't a joke. I'm dead serious). Your fish will continue to die until you either learn what is wrong or provide enough information to allow people to help.

[tibbsy07]

you all kind of suck. Not everyone has unlimited money to their at the hobby. My other livestock all seems fine and I'm coming here for help and most of you only seem concerned with the idea that I don't have test kits or a qt.

Not all of us have said stuff like that. I think your fish had marine velvet.

 

That being said - while I don't think a QT is necessary for everyone, and I know money is tight (believe me, I do), a basic test kit for Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite is essential. You can't keep a reef tank alive if you don't know what's going on inside. I know you have had your LFS doing your tests, but you can get an API saltwater master kit on amazon for 17 bucks (I just did it myself). It's not the best kit, but it's better than nothing.

 

We all start somewhere, and you are clearly just now starting. These are the kinds of lessons we learn as we go - like get a test kit because that's a critical component to the reefing hobby and you can't always rely on someone else. Sometimes people are going to criticize your choices here - don't take it personally. You made a mistake, they called you out on it. Nothing more, nothing less. Some are a bit nastier about it than others, but shrug it off, and learn from what people are telling you. You came to NR for help, and they are giving it, it's just not what you want to hear.

 

tl;dr reef keeping is expensive, test kits are critical and should come before livestock, people here will help but will call you out on your mistakes, so you just have to take it with a grain of salt and learn from what is happening.

[Tamberav]

I have never bought a nitrite test kit and my ammonia one is probably expired Just never found use for either once the tank was established.

 

A common parasite that is very lethal to clown fish is Broklynella. Any loss of coloration or skin problems?

 

Here is some info:

 

http://www.chucksaddiction.com/brookynella.html

[AWillroth]

I have an ammonia test kit. It's at zero. I've been testing my nitrates twice weekly at the lfs. They are maintaining at about .20 with weekly water changes. S ome of you have been very helpful thus far. I was just frustrated with those that offered nothing constructive.

 

Yes, he lost color in the hours before he died. Brooklynella is precisely what I'm thinking. Am I going to need to run fishless to get rid if it?

[andersonkc]

you all kind of suck. Not everyone has unlimited money to their at the hobby. My other livestock all seems fine and I'm coming here for help and most of you only seem concerned with the idea that I don't have test kits or a qt.

 

I wasn't trying to be rude or put you down in anyway. I am just saying from my experience.

 

I bought a Peppermint Shrimp, was active all night the first night and the next day it was dead. All parameters were fine.

 

And sorry about the clown my friend, I just lost a clown goby; that was due to my lack of knowledge.

 

Good luck in the future.

[Rollermonkey]

you all kind of suck. Not everyone has unlimited money to their at the hobby. My other livestock all seems fine and I'm coming here for help and most of you only seem concerned with the idea that I don't have test kits or a qt.

I'm relatively new at this, too, but the lessons of research, preparation and patience have been learned by many, many reefers. They (we) try to pass those lessons down, and it is frustrating when they aren't learned by new reefers except the hard way.

 

There is no such thing as too much research.

Nothing good happens quickly, but bad things always do (and always when your LFS is closed).

Have a QT/HT available before buying livestock.

Quarantine everything.

Have tests and use them.

Keep records of all testing, dosing, medications and system changes.

Have basic medications on hand, before you need them.

 

These are the lessons you'll find, over and over, on every board and forum. Even if you're 100% prepared, sometimes things die anyways, but things are worse when these lessons aren't heeded. Maybe not right away, but when the problems come later it's usually worse.

 

Having a 20g tank, a spare heater and a basic filter isn't that big of an expense when you consider how much we spend on everything else.

 

We choose to keep living things as our hobby. With that choice comes a responsibility to do the best we can to maintain that life.