Clownfish laying down and breathing rapidly

[AWillroth]

The tank is a 20 gallon tall. Probably about 13 gallons actual water volume after sand and rock. Ive done plenty of research, let my tank cycle, have been testing and water changin regularly since my cycle stopped. Nitrates have been consistantly a little high but they arent spiking and water changes is keeping them decent. (<.20) I know I added these clowns a little soon after my wrasse (one week) but other than that I really have been taking my time and reading, so I hate to come here and get accused of not knowing what I'm doing when all im really looking for is suggestions.

[Rollermonkey]

Reading through again... You had a wrasse and two clowns in a tank a month old...

 

A month from when you first put water in, or a month from the end of the cycle?

 

Either way, that is moving either kind of fast or way too fast.

 

So much that goes wrong isn't just one thing, but rather a combination of factors.

 

My guess, (and without pictures, test results or more information, that's all anyone can offer is a guess,) is that the smaller clown was hosting some sort of disease or parasite, and moving into your young tank was too much stress. The immune system was overcome, and it died from a combination of disease and nitrate poisoning from an overwhelmed biofilter.

 

It is an all too common occurrence, and probably happens two or three times a month, every month, just in this beginner's forum alone. Not even counting the dozen other reef forums. As long as you learn from it, that's the important thing.

[FrontMan]

I'd guess brooklynella given the symptoms. You should be ready to act fast if your other clown shows similar symptoms. Brooklynella kills fast.

[Rollermonkey]

^I'm not going to "like" that, but it is excellent advice. Go to Petco and get a 10G, an AC30 and a 25W heater. It shouldn't break the bank, but you can't run most medications in your DT.

[Havok_9]

It's discouraging to lose fish, I'm sorry. Ignore the people who seem patronizing, whether they admit it or not, have made mistakes that cost them some livestock. This hobby is a tough and unforgiving teacher! However I agree that trying to save $ by cutting corners only ends up costing you more $$ and headaches. This hobby is a luxury and not a right, and I'm on a tight budget as well. Do a little at a time is all I can suggest from my narrow window of experience, focusing on the quality of water first of and everything else second. I'm learning this hobby is a big game of patience, but vey rewarding.

 

Good luck with your remaining fish and please keep updating on their condition.

[AWillroth]

The other clown is behaving normally now, hes maybe a tad lethargic, but hes back to his favorite activity of riding the jet from the powerhead. My candy cane coral is looking better today than it ever has, so im really not thinking water is the issue. I'm definitely gonna take things really slow from here. These clowns were going to be my last livestock purchase for the tank outside of coral, anyway.

And I did run to PetSmart and buy a 2.5 gallon tank with a small heater and an air pump, along with a formalin based medication, it was just too late by the time I got home. If the remaining clown takes a turn for the worse, I'll definitely do a formalin dip.

[Tamberav]

How much was the 2.5g tank? Their 10g's are really cheap and it is a pain to keep water parameters in a 2.5g as a QT. If you ever had to QT more than one fish.. oh dear. I did have to do 2 clowns in a 5.5g once as my other QT was occupied. It turned out okay but made me nervous.

 

I'm sure you could return it and get a 10g, even if you used it (just don't tell them that ) and keep the box/stickers, ect.

[AWillroth]

I was on a super tight budget, atm. The 2.5 was $15. More for a place to do dips/baths for medication than to QT. I have my eye out for other tanks to use as a QT, though. Its one of the next purchases I make, for sure. Theres even a 10g for $10 at a local flea market. I'll probably grab that soon, It was just closed today as well (sucks living in the midwest on sundays.) I may try to fashion the 2.5 gallon into a refugium once I get a better QT.

[Tamberav]

Did you check the price on 10 gallons? They should only be like $13 or something if I remember right. The smaller tanks actually cost more

 

Nice idea on a fuge though!

[Eclipse]

Just an idea, maybe you should point at least one powerhead towards the surface.

[tibbsy07]

The 10g are 13.99 and the 2.5/5.5 are usually 15. I only know because I just did a ton of tank hunting in my area (PetCo/Smart/etc).

 

Your nitrates aren't bad, and I doubt that's the issue here. It's likely that you picked up brooklynella or marine velvet given the symptoms. Any dark spots or patches on the dead clown?

[Coastie]

don't take this website personally. You've clearly done a bit more than the normal (myself included) rookie to this hobby.

 

While you clearly don't have all bases covered you have more than most. Just let it be water under the bridge and do what is within your power to fend for your tank inhabitants. Again, a lot of people on here react to "help, my fish is dying" via preprogrammed response after dealing with so much naiveness.

[AWillroth]

Got a chance to get all parameters tested today. Sg .025 ph 8.2 ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 20. My other fish show no ill signs today and all the other clowns that came into the Lfs with the little guy look good. I think for whatever reason he just never took to my tank. Just gonna take it slow from here and focus on coral growth. Will be monitoring my wrasse and remaining clown closely.

[Andy16]

you all kind of suck. Not everyone has unlimited money to their at the hobby. My other livestock all seems fine and I'm coming here for help and most of you only seem concerned with the idea that I don't have test kits or a qt.

 

I would say there's a 30/70 split between those that suck and those that don't on this forum. I've lurked on this forum for years and have had a reef tank set up for 3 years before ever considering posting anything in fear of asking a 'stupid' question. I usually try to search for whatever potential questions I have or may have in the future and can find what I need. This ideology has preventing me from dealing with the dick responses you had deal with, which are no help at all. At the same time, creating a thread inquiring about a specific problem that you have is the best way to get direct info about what you want to know, Don't be discouraged by the negative comments. You obviously care about the health of your livestock or you wouldn't have come to this site to desperately find a solution to save your clown. The best part about this hobby is what you can learn from it, and its impossible to learn without making mistakes. And unfortunately, mistakes in this hobby usually means you kill something. Also, I am pretty sure snowflake clowns are a product of artificial selection, so it's not like you took some rare creature out of the ocean and irresponsibly killed it.

 

Also, I honestly know very little about qt tanks. I have a couple tanks I could set up at a moments notice if need be, but I would need to consult this forum or elsewhere to know exactly what I would need to do to get it going as a successful qt tank.

 

I also apologize that I can't really tell you what the problem was with your fish. A general API test kit that has a Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate test would be useful, but in all honesty I might have only used each of those once or twice in the three years I've had them. They are probably expired and useless by now.

 

 

I think for whatever reason he just never took to my tank.

This is pretty much how I feel about most of the fish I've lost in my tank. Granted, I have never lost a fish within a month of adding it. The stress of a fish being collected, kept at your LFS, and then being transferred to your tank has a lot to do with fish mortality in this hobby IMO, and there's not much to do about it. I had a flasher wrasse for 4 months that ate great and seemed perfectly healthy, but its stomach slowly sunk and it eventually died. Could have been an internal parasite but that's a pretty difficult thing for the average hobbyist to diagnose.

 

 

Just gonna take it slow from here and focus on coral growth. Will be monitoring my wrasse and remaining clown closely.

Keep up with this mindset. I don't even want to say it(cliche, unfortunately true), but good things in this hobby happen slowly, and bad things happen quickly.

 

EDIT: I retract my previous assessment of the 30% suck, 70% don't. I'd give it a 10%/90% . its just that the 10% really add to the suck

[kmaintl]

i hate to say that you were lucky... that it wasn't marine velvet. if it was, your entire tank could be wiped out in days as velvet wipes out fast too. if it was brook, your other clown would have probably died too. how was the condition of the dead clown besides loosing color? how was the fins and tail?

[AWillroth]

Update...today the remaining clown looks fine but is not eating and is maybe a tad lethargic. Still full color, breathing fine, and swimming fine. All I've been feeding is frozen brine. Should I try to get him to eat flake or pellets?

[AWillroth]

Also just noticed white stringy poop. Should I treat with prazipro?

Update...now he's breathing heavily. Sadly,I think he's going the route of the first clown. This sucks.

[kmaintl]

I would suggest treating with PraziPro, although stringy poop doesn't necessarily mean it is internal parasites, it just means the fish is feeling well and could be almost anything, even brook.

 

If you can isolate him to the 2.5gal tank with water from your present tank and a large piece of live rock that has nothing growing on it, I would suggest treating fro brook. Use either formalin or chloroquine phosphate. Being that it might already be active, formalin is your best bet and you can get it at pet solutions dot com. i have chloroquine phosphate and formalin, but i'm overseas on vacation right now. there's a guy on eBay selling chorloquine phosphate and it's probably more than you'll ever need. In the meantime, if your clown isn't too stressed, I would freshwater him dip daily to give him temporary relief. It won't cure brook, but it will give him temporary relieft until you can get formalin or CP. to help him with some temporary relief from the heavy breathing, try API general cure as that seems to always work for me. if you don't have any corals or inverts in your main tank, you can treat the entire tank with chloroquine phosphate.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/fish

 

Try to feed him a little of everything, pre-soaked in garlic and selcon to try to entice him to eat. New Sprectrum Thera A+ is good too. If you can get him to eat, there's more chances of survival.

[AWillroth]

The clown is in the care of the lfs at the moment. One if their snowflakes is showing the same symptoms. We're contacting sustainable aquatics, where the fish cane from to see if they have any idea. My lfs is very good and has plenty of tanks to use for treatment.

[kmaintl]

You can count on it being brook because of how fast it is spreading. Your LFS could have gotten brook in one of 2 sources, bringing in wild caught fishes (brook and other disease carriers) from their wholesalers or from SA.

[AWillroth]

Seems to be isolated to the sa snowflakes.

[ninjamyst]

you have a nice LFS

[AWillroth]

Today the wrasse is symptomatic. I'm relatively sure at this point the problem is an internal parasite. Retrieved my clown from the Lfs and am treating prazipro. Fingers crossed.

[FrontMan]

Symptoms lean more towards ich or brook. You should leave all the fish in the hospital tank and treat them. The display tank should remain fallow for 6 weeks. You'll need to change 50% water or more in hospital tank daily to keep ammonia down. Anything else is a shortcut. Kmaintl's advice is golden.

[Tamberav]

Doesn't sound like an internal parasite at all. Fish will stop eating and have white poop and they starve slowly and get skinny and die. They don't end up on the sand breathing and doing flips.

 

You really need to put them in a separate tank and treat them for brook as I suspect that is what this is. Brook kills in hours to days and internal parasites take weeks to never (some fish can live with it).

Today the wrasse is symptomatic. I'm relatively sure at this point the problem is an internal parasite. Retrieved my clown from the Lfs and am treating prazipro. Fingers crossed.