Possible Dinoflagellates and Calothrix?

[Okie Pride]

Hi, I have a stock 28g JBJ Nano-Cube Intermediate. My tank has been running for 25 days. My tank cycled in 11 days with 25 pounds of live sand and 21 pounds of live rock and saltwater, all purchased from my LFS. The temperature has been steady at 79 degrees and the ph has been stable since day one at 8.2 due to Seachem ph buffer.My ammonia and nitrites have been at 0 for at least two weeks which is when I added a clean up crew consisting of 3 peppermint shrimp for aiptasia that was popping up on my live rock, 3 Mexican turbo snails to help with algae that was growing on the glass, and a tiger conch for detritus that was littering my sand; and a yellowtail damsel, just for fun.

 

Anyway, over the last 9 or so days I've noticed the growth on my live rock.

 

 

 

I've done some research and I think I've been able to identify the algae and the treatments for them but I just wanted to post some pics and see. Thanks for your time.

[Wretched]

Looks like it's the beginning stages of Dino...

[brandon429]

You need to pull each rock and dip per the peroxide thread below before it gets bad

 

All the dip options are herehttp://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/

 

 

A dip, not an in tank dose is indicated due to the nature of the invasion and the pep shrimp...not in the substrate yet, just localized to the rocks.

[metrokat]

I agree with Brandon.

[squirrelieygrrrl]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/

 

Here is an interesting article on them, you may want to try this before you go the peroxide route and nuke your rock since your tank is sparcely stocked.

 

I've had them in the past and the issue seemed to correct its self with a few water changes.

[Okie Pride]

I took out all of the rock and treated with peroxide, scrubbed it with a toothbrush and then soaked it in water for 30 minutes and then returned it to the tank. The rock seemed stained with the colors of the various algae that was on it. I assume that's normal?

[Fishgirl2393]

I will say that the peroxide works well. I (unfortunately) had more problems that were not solvable with peroxide but I still use it if I need to clean some coral frag plugs/rocks off. However, I think that until you know how much it will affect YOUR tank, you might take it slow. I got a SMALL nitrite spike from peroxide (removing rocks and cleaning them with it) but it didn't last long and didn't kill anything. Good luck!

[brandon429]

Fish I thought we had discussed a nitrite spike in your tank before the treatment? Remember we had talked about how use of prime causes false positives with the test you were using? The nitrite was part of a multi page thread you had posted long before we did the treatment I had thought

[Okie Pride]

Well, the rock looks good 16 hours after the treatment but, I have lost one of my shrimp. I suppose that's not too bad, I only bought them for the aiptasia I had early on.

[brandon429]

hey can you get us pics Id like to follow this here, and at the reefcentral big thread.

 

i think your initial kill will be solid, its the growback Id really like to chart. your tank had such a localized infestation on the rocks I give you a really high chance of external dips fixing it.

 

yes those shrimp are ultra sensitive, wish I knew a better way to protect them. predicting their demise has to suffice for now lol. I think its worth it to regain the ecosystem and be able to pack it in with coral

 

a cool prediction for you is zero recycle, loss of target and about a 75% chance of needing just one more external treatment to beat it altogether.

[brandon429]

also, not just saying this to excuse the shrimp killing factors of peroxide, but the death and release of whatever is in this many dinos could very well be a factor above it.

[Okie Pride]

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So, I rearranged to the rocks to allow for much more surface area and for more caves. I'm more pleased with this setup. I'm planning on adding a pair of ocellaris clowns and perhaps a host coral soon, if possible. I've noticed a few dino bubbles floating around the surface of the water so I've been trying to remove them from the tank with a net.

[brandon429]

Wow thats nice for sure In one week if it stays gone will definitely link to the threads real nice pics for sure

 

a few mls squirted in there for good measure is harmless.

[Okie Pride]

a few mls squirted in there for good measure is harmless.

 

Do you mean I should squirt maybe 10 mL of H2O2 into my tank directly?

[brandon429]

Sure just do a few mils like 2 or 3 since there is no shrimp there is no concern. Break it up over two treatments this week is my opinion I'm really trying to get those cells gone


If you don't dose the tank no big deal its just harmless to do so if you want the extra insurance

[Okie Pride]

So, in my continued attempts to maintain a journal I did some routine maintenance and a check of all the livestock. I noticed that there were a few strands of algae gathering on a couple of the rocks so I took a toothbrush to them with one hand and a net in the other to collect the debris. Also, my conch seems to be stressed about something and I'm not sure if it's related to the peroxide but, he's buried himself inside the sand in the front corner of the tank. I hope he makes it, he's become really fun to watch do his thing.

[brandon429]

Oh I didnt see the conch or had missed that detail! I think he will be ok, since he's in there you can decide whether or not to proceed with in tank treatments and just keep up directed manual removal if needed. any peroxide added loses its effect in about 24-36 hrs

[brandon429]

how is it looking today...are you having to manually remove it still? Im about ready to link to the other p threads since this one has such great pics, just wondering if they appear dead yet./

[Okie Pride]

I haven't noticed any additional growth. I'll post some pics tomorrow before I go buy my first coral, assuming my water tests come out fine.

[brandon429]

Thanks for staying in touch w pics ill go ahead and link up and if there is regrowth we can deal with it live time I bet the tank will be fine

[jedimasterben]

Just to note - if it was indeed dinoflagellates, I wish you luck and that they will not return, but be prepared in your mind for them to return en masse at any day. No matter how much peroxide was used, they can (and unfortunately more than likely will) return. I have firsthand experience with an intense dinoflagellate outbreak and was dosing nearly 200mL per day of peroxide in a tank with about 60-65G of water (left the return pump off for several hours after, so the peroxide was all broken down before mixing back in the sump), and after a few weeks of not dosing peroxide, they started coming back in waves, each one progressively worse. Even after doing a 100% water change, taking out 98% of all rock in the tank, bleaching and soaking in muriatic acid, and dosing 50mL of peroxide into the remaining 20G of water daily for a week, they returned after a few weeks. They seem to have died back again, but I am assuming I will not win this battle.

[Okie Pride]

That's horrifying, Mr. Kinobi. I super hope it does not happen to me. I bought a yellow watchman goby/pistol shrimp pair today and I do not want to lose them.

[Polarcollision]

Just to note - if it was indeed dinoflagellates, I wish you luck and that they will not return, but be prepared in your mind for them to return en masse at any day. No matter how much peroxide was used, they can (and unfortunately more than likely will) return. I have firsthand experience with an intense dinoflagellate outbreak and was dosing nearly 200mL per day of peroxide in a tank with about 60-65G of water (left the return pump off for several hours after, so the peroxide was all broken down before mixing back in the sump), and after a few weeks of not dosing peroxide, they started coming back in waves, each one progressively worse. Even after doing a 100% water change, taking out 98% of all rock in the tank, bleaching and soaking in muriatic acid, and dosing 50mL of peroxide into the remaining 20G of water daily for a week, they returned after a few weeks. They seem to have died back again, but I am assuming I will not win this battle.

Yeah, I had something similar recently and am beginning to realize it is going to be a lifetime battle in the tank. They'll go away for a while and then suddenly bloom again. It happens in the Sound when temps rise and nutrients are abundant. Crossing my fingers that lowering the temp a degree or two will keep them at bay. Maybe even find some way to add bacterial competition for nutrients. I dunno. They're becoming my indicator organism for higher nutrients at least. The sand is just colorful instead of white and that's that. :::where's the smiley for throwing up your hands?:::

 

Pics from the microscope on my thread if you want to see them up close. They're cool to watch swimming around if nothing else... Oh, and if they're the right kind, they may even bioluminesce when they hit a critical mass (quorum sensing).

[brandon429]

There is some really cool documentation on reefcentral about various dino cures, ill find it it and link it for you to see

 

Nobody can pinpoint why dinos can be wiped in one tank and persistent in another or we'd all just tune to that freq and eliminate them

 

But there is evidence of both, total cures and not any help at all I like to just try and see

 

The highly localized nature of this setup, ie not on the substrate like other total invasions made it seem likely receptive.

 

Couldn't agree more on fighting any return of them immediately no matter what you have to do, who wants to let a virulent strain take hold so assume the worst of all of them is my take. I figured this might be a lucky kill, okie will keep us updated i bet. Can't wait to get an update one day months from now out of the blue just to see

 

I bet if we quantified that thread when I find it, the most common approaches by percentage would be lights out extended photo starvation 50%, pH spiking or combos of the two are 25% and peroxide doses are 25% of the attempts, each method having a good base of testimony to draw from

[Okie Pride]

I've noticed some strands of something growing on some of my rock. I have been busy these last couple of days and haven't been able to upload any new pics. I'll be sure to get some shots up when I get the chance. My main concern, though, is in regards to how peroxide would affect my new shrimp. I'm considering removing one problem rock from my display and letting it soak for a couple days in a closed bucket.