Coral Growth Under LED's

[plantarms]

A lot of people out there have started making DIY LED fixtures, I am interested in the coral growth/coloration as a result of your fixture. If you have an LED light and are currently keeping corals please throw out some info

 

Previous Light

LED Setup (Type, optics?, number, use a dimmer?)

Corals

Growth/Coloration/General Appearance

[redfishsc]

Tagging along for the ride, I'd like to know this myself.

 

Until then, check out the pics from aquariumled.com --- they have a 42W LED unit that is designed to replace a 175W halide. The color temp is really low, less than 10,000K (or at least it used to be), so it requires blue supplementation IMO.

 

 

Click the link and find on the left side the link for "growth"

 

 

http://www.aquariumled.com/

[plantarms]

from a lot of their growth pictures it appears like the led's bleached the corals. has anyone else had this experience?

[Land0]

I think the bleached effect you speak of is just what the pictures look like, very hard to get accurate color pics under LED's IMO

[redfishsc]

Plantarms, I agree with LandO.

 

Their LED is a very low (ie, very white) color temp. We are all used to seeing all kinds of deep, dark blues in our 20K halides and blue T5's, but their LED is quite white.

 

Personally I think that's to their discredit, they really should offer a higher K rated LED for a reef, no less than a 12,000K.

 

 

I honestly think that, for many SPS, 20,000K lighting actually produces better growth than lower K values. This was studied by Dana Riddle on a certain acro specie (I forget) and showed that 20,000K actually gave a LOT more growth than 10,000K or even 14K.

 

 

Not to mention that algae tends to prefer the whiter light, and not bluer light.

[supernip]

Plantarms, I agree with LandO.

 

Their LED is a very low (ie, very white) color temp. We are all used to seeing all kinds of deep, dark blues in our 20K halides and blue T5's, but their LED is quite white.

 

Personally I think that's to their discredit, they really should offer a higher K rated LED for a reef, no less than a 12,000K.

 

 

I honestly think that, for many SPS, 20,000K lighting actually produces better growth than lower K values. This was studied by Dana Riddle on a certain acro specie (I forget) and showed that 20,000K actually gave a LOT more growth than 10,000K or even 14K.

 

 

Not to mention that algae tends to prefer the whiter light, and not bluer light.

 

 

I just read that article. It was a recap of another article which I skimmed through. I don't know if I'd take those findings as scripture. It was a 1 experiment, with a low sample rate. The original article also showed that the 14k did just as well or better than the 20k, and the growth was substrate dependent. Another point to consider is that the article was done with fresh cut corals and measured for 85 days. Growth was measured in mg. It could just be that some frag shapes and glued orientation might encrust faster. I skimmed through the original article (21 pages, yikes) so I didn't see how well the other parameters were controlled.

 

just thought I'd post that for your consideration though

[plantarms]

LandO, good point, I have heard from everyone that pictures are very hard to get under LED lighting, and I didn't even think of that until you pointed it out.

 

redfishsc, do you currently have an LED setup? If so can you share any personal experience? Also do you have a link for the study you mentioned?

 

supernip, that doesn't sound like a very solid experiment then. do you know anyone that has done tests with the usual cree xr-e led's that most people use?

[supernip]

LandO, good point, I have heard from everyone that pictures are very hard to get under LED lighting, and I didn't even think of that until you pointed it out.

 

redfishsc, do you currently have an LED setup? If so can you share any personal experience? Also do you have a link for the study you mentioned?

 

supernip, that doesn't sound like a very solid experiment then. do you know anyone that has done tests with the usual cree xr-e led's that most people use?

 

that article dana riddle did was for 150w halides. I dont know of any actual LED studies, it's a little too early for that I think. There were a couple threads on rc's sps forum that showed growth pics from the older solaris fixtures. Maybe you could get evil to encourage a time logged macro and fts threads. People would be more inclined to oblige him.

[Weetabix7]

If you want to see some good longer term examples of coral growth under LED's you need to take a look at El Fab's pico tank.

He's had an LED fixture over it for several months.

I definitely like the effects I see in his tank, but I have also heard of corals bleaching under LED's due to the strength of the light.

For this reason, I think a dimmer would be really important.

I'm having an LED fixture built for me right now to put over my 10" cube Pico, and mine will have a dimmer.

[Bonsai]

In my opinion, after running LEDs for a few months, I've found that growth under Cree-XREs (50% Cool Whites, 50% Royal Blues) is excellent.

 

Coloration is another story. My SPS is lackluster in color - is it because the light is so extreme? I'm not sure, because I have my LEDs tuned down to about 30% capacity.

 

I still don't love the over all color of the tank, even though I can adjust it with the four buckpucks I have on my BC29. I really wish they made a 14k white LED ... Cool Whites are like 6300k or something.

[plantarms]

bonsai and weetabix, how many led's are you running in your fixture or will be running?

[minimonsterLED]

I'm waiting to see what happens with my Green Montipora Cap, I used to play with the dimmers all the time to get the perfect color and coral response. The cap browned up a bit, which would indicate the light wasn't intense enough. I have since moved it out of the shadow of filter and it seems to be coloring up again, albeit slowly.

[Bonsai]

bonsai and weetabix, how many led's are you running in your fixture or will be running?

 

In my BC29, I think I have 12 Cool Whites and 12 Royal Blues.

[deepdvnarq]

i have always been one to never been able to get any corals to grow (or at least noticeable). since i have put the LED in my bc14. i have noticed my zoa's growing. not exponentially like others have raved about, but growth none the less. this includes my rics which is about to split again from one to 3 heads. the birds nest i purchased not too long ago has also grown some too as well as my sunset monti, red monti. the green monti has bleached in some areas but the green polyps are still there and seems to be greener in the shade (under the red monti). yes it hard taking pics of things under LED lighting thanks to the royal blue LEDs. you also need to be careful like some of the others have mentioned because LEDs can burn or bleach out your corals. i beleive on of the reasons that corals (SPS) lose some color under the LED's is due to lack of uv as mentioned in another thread. but saying that, none of my corals have lost color or much of it. i know my zoas when purchased, were all pink and within 2 weeks turned into the ones i have pictured in my thread. i believed they are a variation of watermelon, green eyed somethings, and a mystical green whatever (not too big on the various named zoa's). so in conclusion to my ramblings, you can get good growth as well as coloration, but remember that water parameters have a lot to do with it too.

[minimonsterLED]

i have always been one to never been able to get any corals to grow (or at least noticeable). since i have put the LED in my bc14. i have noticed my zoa's growing. not exponentially like others have raved about, but growth none the less. this includes my rics which is about to split again from one to 3 heads. the birds nest i purchased not too long ago has also grown some too as well as my sunset monti, red monti. the green monti has bleached in some areas but the green polyps are still there and seems to be greener in the shade (under the red monti). yes it hard taking pics of things under LED lighting thanks to the royal blue LEDs. you also need to be careful like some of the others have mentioned because LEDs can burn or bleach out your corals. i beleive on of the reasons that corals (SPS) lose some color under the LED's is due to lack of uv as mentioned in another thread. but saying that, none of my corals have lost color or much of it. i know my zoas when purchased, were all pink and within 2 weeks turned into the ones i have pictured in my thread. i believed they are a variation of watermelon, green eyed somethings, and a mystical green whatever (not too big on the various named zoa's). so in conclusion to my ramblings, you can get good growth as well as coloration, but remember that water parameters have a lot to do with it too.

 

I have noticed an explosion of growth on my fire and ice colony and on my marron/gold palys, but none on my mixed eagle eye/dragon eye colony, this colony has finally gotten happy, so we'll see. The coloration on the eagle eyes faded at first, but they are becomming more brilliant as the days go on. None of my polyps extend upward as they don't need to "reach up" to get more light. My Favia still has amazingly brilliant color, but has shown no growth, that may change when i start feeding him.

[plantarms]

I'm waiting to see what happens with my Green Montipora Cap, I used to play with the dimmers all the time to get the perfect color and coral response. The cap browned up a bit, which would indicate the light wasn't intense enough. I have since moved it out of the shadow of filter and it seems to be coloring up again, albeit slowly.

 

how many led's do you run? and at what power? dimming?

[Waterproof]

I really wish they made a 14k white LED ... Cool Whites are like 6300k or something.

 

They do make cool whites that have different K outputs. Mine are from a chromaticity category that is 8,300-10,000K. These are much whiter than the 5,800-6,300K LEDs. None the less, I think my tanks has more of a purplish hue than the typical blue hue of a 20K MH bulb. The problem is that it is hard as hell to find Cree XR-E LEDs in chromaticity categories outside of the standard 6,300K.

 

As for my tank, I've seen good growth on a green millie and pink monti. The pink monti is only a couple weeks old and showing nice growth. The polyps on the millie look lighter, but that may be due to my water conditions. I've been pretty rough on the millie. First a trumpet coral stung the crap out of it, then a kenya kept falling on it. Now an acan is trying to sting it. I'm running out of space. Plus, I'm still trying to work out some alk/calc issues, which has resulted in parameter swings throughout the day.

 

My SPS look good. I think the green tips of my torch glow more than ever. My trumpets have never had a ton of color, so it's hard to tell if I should expect more. In any event, the green trumpet looks healthy and a good color. Both have grown like crazy. I've noticed that my zoas and shrooms in the shade of other corals have much better colors and extension. I'm not sure if this is due to the lower overall PAR or because the white light seems to get filtered out. In most cases, these shaded items glow much better.

 

PS - I have 5 RB LEDs run at 1000mA and 6 CW LEDs run at 700mA. I bet 6-7 RB: 5 CW would look a bit better.

[minimonsterLED]

how many led's do you run? and at what power? dimming?

 

I'm running 9 Leds 4 white 5 Blue on color. Independent pots (dimmers) on different colors. The Buckpucks are 1A each, running off a single 24v 6A PS. I keep the lights on from 3pm-10pm, Whites at about 75% and Blues at 80%, temp for a slightly blue white...maybe 13,000K.

[Weetabix7]

bonsai and weetabix, how many led's are you running in your fixture or will be running?

 

Please keep in mind that I don't even have my fixture yet, it's still being built, so all of my comments come from personal research and from what I've seen others say.

Also, my tank will be having supplemental sunshine for lighting, which I'm sure will make some difference since it sits directly in front of a large, sunny window.

Having said all of that, I will have 3 White LED's, 3 Royal Blue LED's and one UV LED.

This will be going over a 10" cube that has 3 gallons real water capacity after the displacement of LR and Sand.

[supernip]

Please keep in mind that I don't even have my fixture yet, it's still being built, so all of my comments come from personal research and from what I've seen others say.

Also, my tank will be having supplemental sunshine for lighting, which I'm sure will make some difference since it sits directly in front of a large, sunny window.

Having said all of that, I will have 3 White LED's, 3 Royal Blue LED's and one UV LED.

This will be going over a 10" cube that has 3 gallons real water capacity after the displacement of LR and Sand.

 

 

do! aqua 25c?

[minimonsterLED]

Please keep in mind that I don't even have my fixture yet, it's still being built, so all of my comments come from personal research and from what I've seen others say.

Also, my tank will be having supplemental sunshine for lighting, which I'm sure will make some difference since it sits directly in front of a large, sunny window.

Having said all of that, I will have 3 White LED's, 3 Royal Blue LED's and one UV LED.

This will be going over a 10" cube that has 3 gallons real water capacity after the displacement of LR and Sand.

 

I think that the sunlight idea is an awesome way to suppliment the spectrums which our LEDs cannot reach, i don't see the UV being beneficial though.

[cdelicath]

I have been running LED's for almost a year and the main issue I have is my zoo's are super small. it's like they don't grow as large because of the large amount of light. However they do reproduce quickly so I know they are healthy. Trying to take good pictures is a PITA I will second that.

[gbeef]

I've running for a month on BC 14.. everything in my tank is doing awesome my zoos are growing insane and my LPS look better than before. There alot larger also.

 

I bought a monti cap and Digita placed them at the top last week so we'll see how they do.

[redfishsc]

redfishsc, do you currently have an LED setup? If so can you share any personal experience? Also do you have a link for the study you mentioned?

 

 

The link for the study is below. I personally think they are onto something, but as supernip pointed out, it isn't to be taken as an absolute. There are lots of corals that grow well in extremely shallow, intertidal regions/lagoons (ie, nearly exposed to the air at low tide that will grow much more quickly under very low K rated lights. Corals from deeper water may benefit much more from deep blue 20K spectrum.

 

Personally I like my tanks VERY blue because it tends to reduce hair algae problems and produces the more "purple" corraline (at least in my tanks). \

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/aafeature1

 

 

 

As for lighting I use only T5's at the moment, but I am in the works of making a 13 LED fixture to supplement (ie, double the PAR output) of one of my 4X24 T5's over my 25g. Eventually I'll probably go with a 26 LED spread and just have one or two T5's for adding the color that many say LED's are lacking.

 

 

I personally think we will find (at the moment) our best color combo the same way halide lovers find it--- running LED's (or halides) in tandem with T5's or VHO's with violet actinics (ie, 420nm) or even "fiji purple" looking lights (although they are not true violet lights).

 

 

That is, until the LED manufacturers discover the opportunity for high quality specialty LED's that put out some specialized colors. I would relish a nice, powerful high-power LED that puts out lots of light in the 370-420nm wavelenght, that should flouresce corals like crazy.

[Dave_uk]

Ive had mixed experiences with my LED setup over my nano/pico. Its a 12" cube (12x12x9" display area) with 5 CREE XR-E R2 white and 5 CREE XR-E Royal Blue. The whites are WC bin and a higher colour temperature to the more common WG's. I think they are pretty close to the high end of the bin at around 9-10,000k.

 

I only keep sofites and LPS and have found that the LEDs are way overkill in terms of output for my setup. I have them turned down to about 30% and have had amazing growth (too much) on my xenia and GSP. My candycane is growing well and has doubled in size from 2 to 4 heads in a couple of months. I have had the same issue with my zoas that others have mentioned where they have shrunk, presumably because of the abundance of light as they have reproduced rapidly from around 10 to 40 heads.

 

I can also confirm the difficulty in taking accurate photos with royal blue LEDs. They look great in the flesh but its frustrating not being able to share. Maybe in time someone will come up with a way to overcome this.