Dosing Vodka

[FriscoTX]

anyone try this yet?

[ddr_phish]

Do WHAT?

[rackfokus]

Big Fan!, you didn't mean in the tank did you?

[Weetabix7]

Yup, bet he did.

I've actually heard of this but don't know anything much about it.

I think Uhuru might have info on it.

[ddr_phish]

Whats the purpose of it? (In a tank I mean)

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I just looked it up, wow this is really interesting.

 

The addition of ethanol to the system increases the metabolism of anaerobic (actually most) bacteria so that they will work harder to convert nitrate, etc. into nitrogen gas and misc other intermediates in the nitrogen cycle: feeding them 2-carbon fragments increases the need for more nitrate, much the same way that when we run (as opposed to walking), we use more oxygen to burn the carbon (6-carbon sugars, etc.)we use for energy that our body needs to fuel muscle contraction. This same mechanism or alcohol fueling the bacteria is used in wastewater treatment for sewage, etc., but these septic systems can use methanol (much cheaper single carbon fragments) that would poison our live systems of vertebrates and invertebrates. The net result is a drop in avaiable nitrate, making our systems nitrate-limited rather than phosphate-limited for algal growth, clearing the water of pelagic algal growth and most often reducing overall algal growth in the system. Sounds great until you overdose the tank with EtOH and you get a bacterial bloom and resulting O2 drops... ...and it doesn't take much, we're talking mililiters per dose...

 

The effect of ethanol on the tank is indirect, via nutrient reduction and subsequent decreases in algae and misc. other nitrate-dependent growth organism populations that live pelagic lives suspended in the water column. This water-clearing mechanisms is slower to occur, but in the long run is just as effective, however it carries many caviats and potential disaster issues that carbon does not.

 

And this:

 

 

"DSB tanks react very sensitively on Vodka supplementation, thus be careful! If you run a DSB without a skimmer, you should add one to your tank.

 

Vodka should be supplemented daily during the lighting phase.

 

You can start with 0.1 mL/100 L for the first three days.

Then you increase the vodka volume to 0.2 mL/100 L for day 4-7.

Subsequently to this initial week you increase the vodka dose by 0.5 mL per total tank volume (this is important, do not dose on a per 100L basis, but on the total tank volume!) every week.

 

So, e.g. for a 500 L tank:

 

day 1-3: 0.1 * 5 = 0.5 mL

day 4-7: 0.2 * 5 = 1 mL

2. week (day 8-14): 1 mL + 0.5 mL = 1.5 mL

3. week: 1.5 mL + 0.5 mL = 2 mL.

 

After these 3 weeks you should recognize changes in the nutrient levels (nitrate, phosphate). If the nutrient levels are still unchanged, you should further increase the dose by 0.5 mL per total tank volume.

As soon as you recognize either nitrate or phosphate to start dropping you shouldn't further increase the vodka volume but watch the nutrient levels, even in the first three weeks.

[cdelicath]

ONe foR Me ONe FoR U...........and........repeat

[LaceySaysMeow]

I'd heard about that before, I think maybe in freshwater systems but I could be wrong.

Never tried it myself, but it looks like it's worth a try once I get my tank up and running.

[eklikewhoa]

I dose in my nano....is to fuel the anaerobic bacteria which feed on Nitrates.

 

The carbon for freshwater is Organic carbon which is a supplement/alternative to pressurized co2 for planted tanks.

[Hinecken]

I tried this only to find out that my reef is a mean drunk. My ricordia split after being together for months, and two of my hermits were out on the sand fighting each other to the death for a snail shell. Nope, no more booze for my tank.

[121a]

it acts very similar to adding vinegar to the tank, with kalkwasser. Which is what i'm don't right now, to get rid of dino algae. Mr.Fosi should be more help i think (sorry to put you on the spot )

[gulfsurfer101]

This is interesting, I've seen a local pot dealer dump a six pack into to his multi thousand dollar system because he ans his then GF were fighting and he thought for some drunken reason his fishies would like a drink too. He woke up to a disaster. I've never heard of sumping booze in a tank for benificial reasons, so how much do you dose for a 12g.

[lakshwadeep]

This seems similar to the people adding simple table sugar (or brown sugar) to their tanks to help support anaerobic bacteria.

[Izzue]

LOL...

 

I cant support me and my tanks habit

 

Izzue

[Kraylen]

My fish only drink Grey Goose

[gulfsurfer101]

Pass the covassiea bro,

[Uhuru]

with this type of method you need a good skimmer to remove the bacteria hence the nutrients or it just gets recycled. Works great though just another tool for controlling nutrient levels, I was able to beat dinos this way

[PodRod]

I think I'll just keep up with my water changes and not overfeed. That way there's more grey goose for me - cheers ...

[JerseyChick]

http://www.metricconversion.us/

 

If you try it... I give you credit, you are braver than me

[lakshwadeep]

http://www.metricconversion.us/

 

If you try it... I give you credit, you are braver than me

 

At first glance, I thought you meant trying to use the metric system was brave.

[Zack]

lmao...vodka...haha...

[Zombo]

There was a thread on this over at "the other forums", and I said there what I will say now:

 

Do you find vodka occurring naturally on a wild reef? If it's not on a wild reef, it's not going in mine.

[lakshwadeep]

However, this is how denitrifiers began:

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-06/newbie/index.php

 

Now we get to the WaterKeeper Method of denitrification, the biomechanical removal of nitrogen from the tank. Well, actually nobody ever called it the WaterKeeper Method, as I never made my own designs public...I was working on the development of package denitrification plants for a pharmaceutical manufacturing plant. Naturally, I built a prototype but used it on my own marine tank...A small dosing pump then added corn syrup, later changed to ethanol as the corn syrup clogged up the pump, providing a carbon source...Currently, one of the more popular designs is what is known as a coil denitrifier...In some designs, a carbon source (such as sugar) is added at the head of the coil.

[Mr. Fosi]

Organic carbon can be a good thing but it could also be a bad thing.

 

I've run a vinegar/kalk mix in my system a couple times and it was bomber for eliminating some stubborn cyano patches.

 

Be careful if you plan to add EtOH, acetate or sugar to your tank, you don't add much and that you have good water flow and gas exchange to deal with the impending drop in DO and increase in DIC.

 

EDIT: And for the record, I don't think EtOH is a good thing to use. Acetate known to be a good organic carbon substrate for bacteria, as is sugar. EtOH is known to kill bacteria though some can use it as a substrate if the concentration is low enough.

[MrAnderson]

all bacteria need only a few basic things for metabolism, carbon and an electron source being the relevant things here (also hydrogen and oxygen, but that's another, although related, story). dosing alcohol provides carbon above what is normally present from the environment, and drives growth. because growth entails amino acid synthesis, translation of proteins and replication of nucleic acids, assimilatory nitrate reduction and phosphorus uptake is accelerated to make these new molecular components.

 

so what dosing alcohol does is flog the bacteria in one's tank to grow and take up these nutrients from the water column. the inherent problem is that rarely does one need nitrification to be boosted; usually the chronic problem is nitrates, not ammonia or nitrites. however adding alcohol makes ALL the bacteria grow faster. sometimes this isn't a problem, but sometimes it is.

 

the ideal scenario is to target alcohol dosing to the populations one wants to grow - the denitrifiers. to this end, many large scale aquatic facilities like public aquaria and zoos actually dose methanol, but only into their denitrators. in this way they augment denitrification without boosting nitrification, which could result in a bottleneck in the nitrogen cycle and an excess of nitrates. done properly, it works very well and doesn't have the inherent stoichiometric limitations inherent in a sulfur denitrator. in the case of using sulfur the limiting reactant is the availability of the electron acceptor; in alcohol dosing it is alcohol and anaerobic microenvironments, both of which can be manipulated.

 

the reagent of choice for this sort of thing is methanol, not ethanol, because it's the shorter carbon chain (actually one carbon) and more easily assimilated. people use vodka, ethanol, sugar, all sorts of crap, which simply boosts bacterial growth in general. all those approaches will do that to some degree with somewhat unpredictable results, but the proper strategy is to dose the simplest possible carbon to only the denitrifiers.

[Kimberly63]

My friend heard a talk at a MACNA meeting and supposidly adding vodka to the tank produces rich colors in SPS corals. Referred to as the "European approach" or something