Floridian Flower Garden Upgrade Help: Geo's Reef awesome sump!

[Mirya]

Currently my Floridian Flower Garden is a Nuvo24. Yes, one of those tanks. Knock on wood it is has been wet for about a year and I haven't had any catastrophic glass cracking as have happened to so many others. I did pop a silicone seam in it by wedging my Gyre cord in between the glass and my DIY drop-in screen lid though. That was close to 6 months ago, and the repair I made to the seam is still holding. However, I will be moving in the next few months, which I figure will afford the perfect oppurtunity to upgrade the tank!

 

I love the long shallow look of the Nuvo24 (36" x 13"), but I hate that the display area of the tank is only 9" deep. I thought a lot about getting the Mr Aqua 22L low-iron. Roughly same footprint by a 3" deeper display but 1" shorter. I figured why not try to maximize my space; my stand can accomodate a larger tank. The stand can't take a 40 breeder unfortunately, it can only take a tank 16" deep. Therefore I'm thinking of ordering a custom tank with the dimensions: 40" x 16" x 16"

 

1) Looks like my tank builder options run from Reef Savvy on one end of the spectrum and Glass Cages on the other. Any other builders people recommend?

 

2) I'm going to sump this tank so I don't loose display space to the AIO assembly like I am now. I plan on having a Gyre130 on one end of the tank. Where the heck do I put my overflow and return line? I can't drill the bottom of the tank since my stand has a marble top. I'm looking at those slim overflows like Synergy Reef or Modular Marine has. Modular Marine has a 800 gph model that I've included in the mock-ups. These were two of the ideas I had for overflow placement, but I'm open to suggestions, like should I do a C2C overflow! (forgive my first ever attempts at SketchUp)

 

 

[VW_TDI_02]

The modular marine ghost overflows are definitely really nice. My biggest recommendation would be to always run two drains!!! For that size tank you only need 3/4" drains so it shouldn't be a problem. For where to place the drains, I would go with your second mock up. I've never been a fan of seeing the tubing on the side and it just looks cleaner to me.

 

I don't really think you need coast to coast overflows since you won't be running much water through your sump anyways. To better explain that, you're probably going to be running a single 3/4" drain with a gate valve that will have a full siphon and then a second 3/4" drain valve that is an emergency/trickle drain. My current overflow box is 6" from left to right and about 3" from front to back and it's more than enough to keep up with such a small drain. If you had a really big tank and were running a few thousand gallons per hour through the sump then you would definitely want a much bigger overflow in order to accommodate the additional flow but that's obviously unnecessary with this size tank.

 

For tanks, check out my thread below. I was looking to get a custom tank but ended up not being able to afford one. Regardless, there are a few different places that I posted about and got quotes from.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/359459-where-to-get-new-tank/

 

I think I covered everything and the Sketch Up looks great!

[Mirya]

For tanks, check out my thread below. I was looking to get a custom tank but ended up not being able to afford one. Regardless, there are a few different places that I posted about and got quotes from.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/359459-where-to-get-new-tank/

 

I think I covered everything and the Sketch Up looks great!

 

This is perfect! Thanks! Going to go read now.

[Mirya]

I think I'm going to cut the length down to 38" and the width down to 14". I like having the lip around the tank on the stand. (The top of the stand is granite.) I can set stuff there while feeding, I can have my Apex water sensors hiding behind the tank on it. Etc. To make the proportions of a 38" long tank equal to my current tank (which I love the proportions of), the height of the tank should be 14". However, I'm thinking of stretching it a hair up to 15" since I like gorgonians. Here is a SketchUp of a 15" high on the left vs a 14" high on the right. Even in this picture I like the proportions of the 14" high more, but I figure once I have a sand bed in there the 15" will be good.

 

While having the overflow on the one end makes the most sense to me from a surface skimming standpoint since it would be opposite the Gyre, I don't want to look at the plumbing coming off the side of the tank. So back it is. I think having dual overflows would be overkill though? The overflow I'm looking at is rated for 800GPH and this tank is roughly 34gallons. If I have the overflow in a corner, I'd put the return in the opposite corner. If I put the overflow in the center, I guess I can have dual returns on either side of the overflow or still put it in a corner?

 

Once I nail all these details down I'll start collecting quotes.

[VW_TDI_02]

For the overflows, dual overflows on such a small tank are complete overkill and unnecessary. I think having the gyre on one side, overflow in the middle, and then the return on the opposite side of the gyre would be your best bet. That way you have some flow coming from both sides of the tank. You can have the overflow on the opposite side of the gyre but then that would mean having the return right next to the gyre. That's not necessarily a bad thing but I think it might look a bit cluttered with all that equipment on that side. I would definitely recommend against the dual overflows since it's just wasting an extra $100 on the overflow and then adding a bunch of extra plumbing when you aren't really going to get a lot of benefit. You don't need a ton of water running through the sump. The place you want the water movement is in the tank.

 

That was a bit of a rant so I'll sum it up here:

- Dual overflows on such a small tank is a waste of money and space (extra plumbing and overflow box)

- Dual returns is not as difficult and doesn't take up anywhere near as much space

- Middle overflow with dual or single return is probably your best bet

 

And now for the tank dimensions. I don't think you should cut the width down any more. I have a 20 long which is 13" wide and there is very little space. Since it is so narrow, it makes it difficult to aquascape your tank. Typically you want your tank to look deeper and add that depth to the tank but it's much more difficult with a narrow tank. I actually have a similar planted freshwater tank that's 36" long, 12" wide, and 22" tall and I still can't get the depth out of the aquascaping that I would like. My ideal tank would be something like a 40 breeder but obviously you're limited by your stand. I do think that adding that extra height would be beneficial. you still shouldn't have any problems with light penetration and it does give you more vertical space for corals. If you really need a place to set stuff down then simply have an accessible shelf on the inside of your stand. That's where I store my food, carbon, GFO, etc.

[Legendary Corals]

Chris over at PicoAquariums can make custom pieces.

[Mirya]

That was a bit of a rant so I'll sum it up here:

- Dual overflows on such a small tank is a waste of money and space (extra plumbing and overflow box)

- Dual returns is not as difficult and doesn't take up anywhere near as much space

- Middle overflow with dual or single return is probably your best bet

 

And now for the tank dimensions. I don't think you should cut the width down any more. I have a 20 long which is 13" wide and there is very little space. Since it is so narrow, it makes it difficult to aquascape your tank. Typically you want your tank to look deeper and add that depth to the tank but it's much more difficult with a narrow tank. I actually have a similar planted freshwater tank that's 36" long, 12" wide, and 22" tall and I still can't get the depth out of the aquascaping that I would like. My ideal tank would be something like a 40 breeder but obviously you're limited by your stand. I do think that adding that extra height would be beneficial. you still shouldn't have any problems with light penetration and it does give you more vertical space for corals. If you really need a place to set stuff down then simply have an accessible shelf on the inside of your stand. That's where I store my food, carbon, GFO, etc.

 

Ah, when you said two drains above, I thought you meant two overflows. I gotcha now. THanks for the advice on the overflow and returns.

 

I know what you mean about narrow tanks and aquascaping. My display is currently only 9" deep! 14" is going to be amazing in comparison!

 

Chris over at PicoAquariums can make custom pieces.

 

Alas, Chris isn't building until the end of the year at least while he sources a new glass supplier.

[Legendary Corals]

 

Alas, Chris isn't building until the end of the year at least while he sources a new glass supplier.

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[VW_TDI_02]

 

Ah, when you said two drains above, I thought you meant two overflows. I gotcha now. THanks for the advice on the overflow and returns.

 

I know what you mean about narrow tanks and aquascaping. My display is currently only 9" deep! 14" is going to be amazing in comparison!

 

 

Alas, Chris isn't building until the end of the year at least while he sources a new glass supplier.

Yea, two drains within the same overflow. The link below is to how I did my drain. The only problem with mine is that I didn't add a snail guard for my siphon drain. Going from 9" to 14" is definitely a benefit. The 20 long I have is only 13" and I already want a 40 breeder or something bigger. Something like 24" deep, 16"-18" tall, and 36" long is my dream tank right now.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/355032-20g-long-first-reef-build-6302015-new-sps-corals/page-4#entry5043814

[Mirya]

Been getting quotes from various aquarium builders for the upgrade. Looks like I will be choosing between SC Aquariums, Oceans by Design, and Reef Savvy. If I had all the money in the world I'd go with Reef Savvy no hesitation, but... it's about $200 more than the other two. Of course, that $200 difference likely comes from the phantom bottom I asked for in the quote.

 

Does anyone here have experience with SC Aquariums or Oceans by Designs tanks and are able to chime in with opinions on their tanks?

 

I've been looking at sumps. My sump space is somewhat limited based on the way my stand is constructed, so I need to go with a cube sump. I think I have narrowed it down to either Advanced Acrylics Basic Cube Sump or Building an Obsession Cube Sump. IDK that I really need a refugium area since it will be relatively small, which the BAO sump has, but the BAO sump also has an adjustable height for the water depth in the skimmer section. The BAO, once you include shipping (free shipping on the AA sump) is $180 more than the AA sump though!

 

Also looking at skimmers, based on things like relatively energy efficient, reportedly easy to clean, not reported to make tons of microbubbles, and not too huge a footprint. (The BAO sump has a 10.5x9 skimmer chamber, the AA a 15x9 skimmer chamber.) I think I have things narrowed down to:

- Aquamaxx WS-1

- AquaMaxx Cone S CO-1

- Bubble Magus Curve 5

- Skimz SN143 Monzter Mini (edited to add in)

 

Any other skimmers I should consider? Which of those 3 4 do people prefer?

[HarryPotter]

 

Been getting quotes from various aquarium builders for the upgrade. Looks like I will be choosing between SC Aquariums, Oceans by Design, and Reef Savvy. If I had all the money in the world I'd go with Reef Savvy no hesitation, but... it's about $200 more than the other two. Of course, that $200 difference likely comes from the phantom bottom I asked for in the quote.

 

Does anyone here have experience with SC Aquariums or Oceans by Designs tanks and are able to chime in with opinions on their tanks?

 

I've been looking at sumps. My sump space is somewhat limited based on the way my stand is constructed, so I need to go with a cube sump. I think I have narrowed it down to either Advanced Acrylics Basic Cube Sump or Building an Obsession Cube Sump. IDK that I really need a refugium area since it will be relatively small, which the BAO sump has, but the BAO sump also has an adjustable height for the water depth in the skimmer section. The BAO, once you include shipping (free shipping on the AA sump) is $180 more than the AA sump though!

 

Also looking at skimmers, based on things like relatively energy efficient, reportedly easy to clean, not reported to make tons of microbubbles, and not too huge a footprint. (The BAO sump has a 10.5x9 skimmer chamber, the AA a 15x9 skimmer chamber.) I think I have things narrowed down to:

- Aquamaxx WS-1

- AquaMaxx Cone S CO-1

- Bubble Magus Curve 5

 

Any other skimmers I should consider? Which of those 3 do people prefer?

 

 

Miracles aquariums does amazing work from what I've seen- what dimensions are you looking for?

Another skimmer worth mentioning is the Skimz- one of the cheaper skimmers on the market yet has a DC pump and good reviews

[Mirya]

Miracles aquariums does amazing work from what I've seen- what dimensions are you looking for?

 

I actually did get a quote from Miracles; it was comparable with Reef Savvy. I figure at that price I'd just go with Reef Savvy!

 

I had wondered about the Skimz. I'll give them another look!

[Mirya]

I looked into the Skimz, $230 for a DC pump skimmer is a really good price. Ultimately I decided that I didn't know I needed the extra controllability that the DC pump would give me. There are already so many other variables in tuning a skimmer. Plus I wasn't sure if I could plug it into my Apex. There also aren't tons of English-speaking reviews of their products. I know they are big in Asia, but I decided to pass.

 

I also decided to pass on the AquaMaxx WS-1. I figure if I was going to get an in-sump skimmer, I might as well get a Skimmer! By all accounts though, the HOB version of the AquaMaxx has been well loved so their new in sump version should work well. I just decided that I'd go away from the square box skimmers, since I had tried two of Tunze's and been unhappy with them.

 

So that left me with the AquaMaxx ConeS CO-1 or the Bubble Magus Curve5. The AquaMaxx had the edge because it has a Sicce pump. But then I learned about Seaside Aquatics skimmers. They take the Bubble Magus skimmer bodies and put Sicce pumps in them. Well, the AquaMaxx still won out in the end as it has really stellar reviews and the cup only needs 0.5" clearance to take it off. I actually ended up ordering a JNS ConeS CO-1 skimmer from Big Al's. (AquaMaxx is just the name for JNS skimmers imported to the US.) With their price and a 15% coupon code I found, I ordered the skimmer for $230. Marine Depot currently has a 15% coupon code right now too, but their list price on the AquaMaxx was a little higher, so the final price through them would have been $247.

[Felicia]

You sure did your skimmer research! That's great that you were so thorough. I hope you love the new skimmer!

[Mirya]

Skimmer arrived today and my return pump arrived yesterday! I've also decided I'm going to go with Oceans By Design for the aquarium build. Placing my order tonight!

 

I've also been playing around with sump designs. There is a real basic two chamber design by Advanced Acrylics I could fit into my stand. But I've been playing around with some custom designs. The space I have to work with is really tight. 15" long x 14" deep. There is a local acrylic guy I'm getting a quote from (Geo's Reef). Otherwise I might find a place to cut the acrylic, then assemble it myself. Here are the 3 designs I've come up with so far. I've designed an overflow into the sock, tried to place the skimmer so as to not block me changing out the sock, and a pseudo-bubble trap before the return.

 

Should I go with one of these designs (and if so which one) or just with a basic 2 chamber sump?

 

Layout 1, refugium, has some dead space/bubble trap in the upper right corner:

 

Layout 2, no fuge:

 

 

Don't know how easily I can fit media into the bubble traps in design 2, but I figure the Chemipure Blue Nano bags would fit. I kinda like the idea of having a fuge, but I'm worried if I want to add a reactor or something to design 1 down the road I won't have space. (Well, I suppose I could take the Cheato out of the fuge and put the reactor or w/e in there.)

 

Edit: Did a cardboard mock-up of the sumps and decided I didn't like Design 3.

[Mirya]

Haven't heard word from Oceans by Design how the tank build is going, but it is really too early for that. However, I did get to pick up my sump today! I had contemplated trying to DIY the acrylic work myself, but then my local reef club pointed out to me that there is a sorta-local acrylic worker. It's George who runs Geo's Reef. I showed George the mock-ups I had done, described to him my wishlist of features, and the measurements I had to work with. Then he tweaked things to come up with a final design. I'm really happy with how it turned out!

 

Here is the sump, 15"x14"x14":

 

The drain area spills over to a 4" filter sock holder to minimize noise:

 

There is an adjustable baffle to tweak water height in the skimmer chamber. George even added on a little temperature probe holder. Behind the baffle water will spill over to an area where I can stash my media bags. There is a nice little rack to hold the bags:

 

Plenty of space to upgrade to a media reactor down the road:

 

And it all fits just perfectly in the little space in my cabinet!