Unarmored dinoflagellates?

[Pinner Reef]

The role of silica in marine eutrophication by Officer and Rhyther, 1980.

 

Macronutrient requirements of dinoflagellates by Rodriguez et al., 2008

 

 

Wish you the best in killing the nasty things

 

Some good reading there, I've turned them into links for future reference.

 

Thanks again! I think I have a starting point for my retaliation.

 

 

Wow, this has really been an interesting thread. Thanks! Pinner, I hope you are able to successfully deal with them!

 

Thanks... It has been really interesting reading for myself as well. Now I just have to execute this semi-convoluted plan I've formulated.

 

 

 

 

The semi-convoluted Plan:

 

I've already done the following...

 

-Emailed the guy from Jedimasterben's link for an ID confirmation. Will send a sample if pics/video on this thread is not sufficient for positive ID

 

-Increased the Ph to 8.4

 

-Filled my media reactor with Phosguard phosphate remover and Activated Carbon in order to starve out the Dinos, and detoxify the water respectively.

 

-Reduced my lighting's photoperiod by 2hrs. I plan to take this down incrementally to between 4-6hrs on my Actinics and 2hrs on my Metal Halide light.

 

 

 

Starting over the weekend...

 

-Remove my sand. It's old and needs to be replaced anyway. During this fight there is very little to be gained by having it in there and a great deal to be gained by removing it.

 

-Buy a UV sterilizer I really do not like to use these things as they kill everything in the water column. On the plus side Dinos in the column will be killed.

 

- Add some Diatomaceous Earth to my media reactor. This is mostly an experiment of my own. DE is silica based which, according to a previously linked article, fosters the growth of competitive Diatoms. The Diatoms should then be easily controlled by my clean up crew. As an added benefit DE is a very jagged/sharp substance which, from what I've heard in the past, captures Dinos more effectively than most micron filter pads. Stay tuned for updates regarding this method.

 

-Add a few patches of Silica sand. Again, this goes back to the article regarding competition for Nitrates and Phosphates between Diatoms and Dinoflagellates. Apparently, Diatoms just need a ready source of Silica in order to overpower Dinos... Stay tuned for results from this as well.

 

 

 

Ok, so tomorrow I'll post up a picture or two of what the tank currently looks like. From there on in I'll be posting progress on my tank's build thread found here:

 

Pinner's 40b

 

Just going to quietly leave these here

 

 

[Pinner Reef]

Mr. Pants! Thanks for showing up! I think you are correct on the 400x magnification. I don't really use my microscope very often.

 

It took me awhile to get that video figured out, but yes, they did kinda hover around randomly bumping into each other when they were moving.

 

Have a look at my system thread... I run a super basic tank. NO sumps skimmers, or fuges; I only run HOB media reactors and rely on water changes for nutrient export. If you have some known Dino predator you want to introduce, my system might very well be what you are looking for. Let me know by this weekend.

[jedimasterben]

I would avoid adding in silica sand (as the silica is really not soluble in water in that form) but would instead recommend you to purchase sodium silicate (aka 'water glass'). It's dirt cheap for a lot of it. Be warned, though, dosing it immediately precipitates magnesium, though over a short time this will redissolve back into the water, so it will just be a short snow

[vlangel]

I wonder if using Nualgi would be an effective source of adding silica for the promotion of diatoms? I participated in a trial study of nualgi and it cleared up my sandbed pretty effectively. It's whole premise is just what you want. I only quit using it because I got seahorses and I wasn't sure of its affects on them. It will work with skimmers, UV's or any other equipment.

[jedimasterben]

I wonder if using Nualgi would be an effective source of adding silica for the promotion of diatoms? I participated in a trial study of nualgi and it cleared up my sandbed pretty effectively. It's whole premise is just what you want. I only quit using it because I got seahorses and I wasn't sure of its affects on them. It will work with skimmers, UV's or any other equipment.

LOL been a while since I've heard that name! Dose sodium silicate instead, Nualgi is a joke.

[vlangel]

LOL been a while since I've heard that name! Dose sodium silicate instead, Nualgi is a joke.

Well maybe it's a joke, but all I can say is my sandbed had some rust colored algae on it and when I used Nualgi for awhile it cleared up.

[jedimasterben]

Well maybe it's a joke, but all I can say is my sandbed had some rust colored algae on it and when I used Nualgi for awhile it cleared up.

Any company that claims that adding a few drops of their 'nanosilicate' supplement to a large tank could and 'will' replace a calcium reactor for cal/alk supplementation is a joke right from the start. Not to mention all the talk of how they could use it to stop ocean acidification if they wanted to lol.

 

http://www.sciencecompany.com/Sodium-Silicate-Solution-16oz-P6375.aspx

[vlangel]

Any company that claims that adding a few drops of their 'nanosilicate' supplement to a large tank could and 'will' replace a calcium reactor for cal/alk supplementation is a joke right from the start. Not to mention all the talk of how they could use it to stop ocean acidification if they wanted to lol.

 

http://www.sciencecompany.com/Sodium-Silicate-Solution-16oz-P6375.aspx

I don't run a calcium reactor so I may have just skimmed over that and I don't remember ever seeing the claim about stopping ocean acidification.

I am merely saying that my experience was good in reference to how my sandbed cleared up with using it plus I noticed amazing polyp extention which was a bonus. I have an LPS tank and that very well may be the difference as I noticed other LPS reefers were also happy with their results.

I have a great respect for your knowledge of reef keeping so perhaps we can just agree to disagree on Nualgi and Pinner can do what he thinks best, ok?

[jedimasterben]

I don't run a calcium reactor so I may have just skimmed over that and I don't remember ever seeing the claim about stopping ocean acidification.

I am merely saying that my experience was good in reference to how my sandbed cleared up with using it plus I noticed amazing polyp extention which was a bonus. I have an LPS tank and that very well may be the difference as I noticed other LPS reefers were also happy with their results.

I have a great respect for your knowledge of reef keeping so perhaps we can just agree to disagree on Nualgi and Pinner can do what he thinks best, ok?

You'd have to search back through Nualgi's website (not the 'aquarium' bottled Nualgi) to find the stuff on ocean acidification, and the stuff with completely stopping all cal/alk dosing is across various forums.

 

I'm not saying that the meager amount of silica present in Nualgi didn't do what it was supposed to, but for the money it's not a great product and not a company I'd be willing to give money to.

[Pinner Reef]

No way, Imma use those little Silica packets that come in beef jerky.

But really, looking for a "low impact" source ATM

[Jellyingabout]

The silica in the ocean that's available to diatoms is in the form of silicic acid. Although silica sand consists of silicon dioxide which is not biological available to diatoms. However in a saline solution it is slowly hydrated into silicic acid which is. This is sped up by bacterial action.

 

Your experimenting on behalf of the marine tank community one day we'll crack down on an solid solution to dinos and this is one step further

[Mr Pants]

 

Have a look at my system thread... I run a super basic tank. NO sumps skimmers, or fuges; I only run HOB media reactors and rely on water changes for nutrient export. If you have some known Dino predator you want to introduce, my system might very well be what you are looking for. Let me know by this weekend.

 

Ah that is unexpected. How long have they been bothering you? If it has been awhile and still no predator has risen up perhaps you can help things along by getting water from a variety of friends. See if you can seed your tank in that way with a predator.

 

Alternatively (or in addition) you can mail me a sample of your dino (weather right now is pretty good for that just don't ship if it is freezing out). I could try isolating it and introducing a predator in culture. And I could mail you a culture of the predator so you can try it in a mixed environment.

[Pinner Reef]

The silica in the ocean that's available to diatoms is in the form of silicic acid. Although silica sand consists of silicon dioxide which is not biological available to diatoms. However in a saline solution it is slowly hydrated into silicic acid which is. This is sped up by bacterial action.

 

Your experimenting on behalf of the marine tank community one day we'll crack down on an solid solution to dinos and this is one step further

 

Right, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the added info. And yes there has to be a good solution to these I'm willing to try as long as I can.

 

 

Ah that is unexpected. How long have they been bothering you? If it has been awhile and still no predator has risen up perhaps you can help things along by getting water from a variety of friends. See if you can seed your tank in that way with a predator.

 

Alternatively (or in addition) you can mail me a sample of your dino (weather right now is pretty good for that just don't ship if it is freezing out). I could try isolating it and introducing a predator in culture. And I could mail you a culture of the predator so you can try it in a mixed environment.

 

I'll ask a few buddies for some water to mix things up. In the meantime I have more than enough samples that I'd be willing to send you... PM me your address and a good day to receive.

[Mr Pants]

Shipping Instructions are here: http://www.algaeid.com/contact/

 

You could also ship it to my home. PM me if you prefer that option.

[Pinner Reef]

Expect a package sometime early next week! Thanks again.