sambo123 Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 I need to know what kinds of sand should I use, would a caribsea special reef grade and caribsea crushed coral be ok? also how much substract, salt, and cement should I use to make 45lbs? and again: will a 55g with 3 extra small gobies and a few corals be ok in a 55g for 3 weeks with 20 lbs of very live rock and 100 lbs of very live sand while the rock cures? Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Might should ask them over at ReefRocks R Us. Ive bought several bags of their dry mix and a few rocks and they have always been very helpfull with anything ive ever needed to know. Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 I just created some peices today Recipe: - 1/4 part PVC plastic shavings - 1 part Rock Salt - 2 parts Caribsea special reef grade - 3 parts Caribsea Aragmax fine - 1/2 part Caribsea Crushed Coral - 1 1/2 parts Portland Type 1 cement - 1 1/4 part water I used RO I made 3 different branch rocks, a cave, two archs, and some frag/rubble peices. After 48 hrs I will make a new batch! plan to make 35-40lbs or so. Hope they look ok! Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Way to go. Youll have to make sure and add some pics for us to see. Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 Thanks! I will try to get pics but I can never get my camera to work right !!! I hope I used enough water and cement, but if it doesnt hold together right can I just add more?? I only used about 1part each of water and cement. is that going to be enough?? Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 What ive learned over the years is this, and its hard to explain but ill give it a try............ Always mix your drygoods together first and mix very very thouroughly, if you think their ready, then mix another minute or two, never too much dry mixing, this ensures everything gets good cement coverage. When using rock salt put it in at very last minute, like just a few seconds before your ready to put them in molds, stir pretty well, then use, rocks utilizing rocks salt or any kind of salt have a tendency to cure a little slower than without, so it may take more than a couple of days for your rocks to cure. Pince a couple of dribble pieces or a hidden edge and see if it breaks, or if you can squish it at all. Another thing to do is on day 2 that the rocks have been in the mold, is take a garden sprayer with a fine mister on it, or a spray bottle and mist some water on your rocks while their still in the mold, this will help remove the salt film that created around your rock salt and detures the cure process and it will also help to make your rocks stronger. Once you dry mix is all good, and youve started adding water heres what I like to use for different piece............ Staghorn type pcs.... I like to mix these a little soupier than other rocks, because of their more delicate design, I want to ensure that im getting a good solid contact of cement, and I also use plastic strips to lay inside the branchs to help keep them solid and stiff.(kinda like plastic rebar) Archs-......... I like to make my mix for archs a little bit drier so that they will have good porosity. The consistency I prefer is kinda like a really thick pancake batter. Pick up a handfull and squeeze it with slight pressure, if it holds it shape your ok thus far, next step is hold your hand approximately 5 to 6 inchs from a hard flat surface and do a drop test, take about a silver dollar sized amount of your mix and drop it on something flat, it should hold at least 50% of its shape and not just plop out flat, then drop another on top of it and it should not lose more than 50% of its shape.(meaning not just go flat and flop all over the place-needs to kinda stay in place) Our Caves When making caves ive learned to make them even dryer. What I do is just dry mix my sand and cement parts and water to get the consistency of product I want. Basically I want it to look like a dry dirtball, It should hold it shape, not be so wet its shiney, but not so dry that when you squeeze it in your hand it cracks......have to play around with the proportions a bit to get it right. Then once that is reach we, go back and had half of the normal amounts of crushed oyster shells and crushed coral. We lay out the bottom first by dropping a few large handfulls out, then we lightly tamp it by hand to make the bottom thin and almost like making a floor, that makes it thin yet strong, then we build a little edge around 3/4 of the outer perimeter for the beginning of the cave walls, (these will have a tendancy to be a little thick but thats ok, itll make your rocks strong enough to stack other rocks on), now add your excess sand to middle of that structure being carefull not to cover the edges you just created, make the sand in middle as high as you want your cave walls to be., Now slowly with small amounts start adding your mix to your sand piled sculpture and build it up along the sides untill you get the design you really like. Once this has setup and been cureing for around 8 to 12 hours come back with some straws and poke some holes in the top, sides, and even the bottom if you like, creates some nice looking caves with little spots of light shining thru the holes. Good Luck Boss Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 Oops I made the branch pretty dry!, is there anyway to salvage the peices if it doesnt work? I think I did the mixing right exept I didnt add the salt last. my consistency was like when you go to the beach and you pick up the sand 5-10 ft away from the point where the waves crash, basically it was really dry! also is there any thing cheaper than Carib Sea sand because it cost like .75 lb at my LFS and I am on a huge buget, could you use play sand if it doesnt have silicate? oyster shell is really cheap but I dont know where to get it locally any websiotes that have it? crushed corals cheap but I think its a little bit to large grain. what works best? Thanks Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Ive used all of the above. For the sand if you live somewhere that sales "southdown" playsand it is 98% aragonite sand, it is dredged up from shipping channels along ancient reefs out of the carribean. I live on the beach at gulf of mexico, I could get ya some sand cheaper, but by the time you paid for shipping wouldnt be saving nothing, sorry. Regular play sand, while it does have silicates, is not really a whole lot to worry about if you have a healty system. Espicially since curing the rocks seperate from any critters, you would most likely only get diatom blooms from using silicate sand anyhoos, other than that nothing wrong with it. However if you plan on having any sand dwelling critters the silicate sand does have some sharp edges to it that could be harmfull to small critters. People are hooked on this aragonite sand thing like its going to save the world and indeed its not. Yes it does work as a great ph buffer, but your ph has to dip really low for it to actually be any benefit. And with that said if you let your ph get that low to begin with your not a very attentative reefer and should have other things to worry about other than silicates in your sand. Ive used silicate sand before and had no negative reaction of any kind.( like I said initially you can get a diatom bloom, but it is not harmfull and will A. either disapeer on its own in a well maintained system, or B. will be removed by several different types of snails and starfish if you decide to use them. Once again aragonite sand is not required--- it helps of course- but is not the necessity-- anyone that tells you it helps keep their systems ph at a constant level has not done enough reading or else they have a really horrible setup in need of some special attention. Another name brand besides "southdown" is "whitecastle" the later being a little harder to find. Good Luck Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 Ok I will go to the store and see what kind of sand they have. I do go to south carolina alot I might be able to get oyster shell and sand pretty cheap. Can you answer: is there anyway to salvage the peices if it doesnt work? I think I did the mixing right exept I didnt add the salt last. my consistency was like when you go to the beach and you pick up the sand 5-10 ft away from the point where the waves crash, basically it was really dry! Thanks Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 You could probably reuse the crumbled pieces to add texture and such to the rock but thats about it. Ck it though, if its really crumbly you may not want to use it because it could cause a premature breakdown in your newer made rocks. If it crumbles too much it could make your new rocks break apart also. I was at reefrocks site today and I noticed they have started saleing nano reef pieces , im thinking I may order a few to try them out as well.... ReefRocks R Us Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 ok Ill check them, I also am pretty sure I have whitecastle sand at local Home depot store. Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 Just checked the rocks and I think they are ok they are a little too crumbly, but they still have 1 more day to sit, I went and made some more rocks with a little more cement and water, I think I have about 25 lbs total now. I think I an going to make the remaining ten with a normal play sand and some aragonite that I have leftover I saw those peices at reefrocks also nice if I still had my nano cube I would probably get one, I just made a large arch about 10'' x 7'' x 5'' hope it turns out ok! Ill give a update when I take the rocks out of the sand! Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 The only sand HD had was Quickrete Play Sand. Is this ok? should I check Lowes and WalMart? I might buy some oyster shell from reef rocks R us B/c they are only 2.99 for 10 lbs thats cheap but what does shipping cost, their LS is really cheap too! Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Yea I have found that quickrete pretty much rules the south for sand. It is 100% silica sand though. I dont see where it would create any issues with making rocks though, its not like anything is going to pass a rock thru their gills and cause any problems. Like I said ive seen some rock at a local store here made with silica sand and cant tell any difference between it and any other. I had purchased oyster shells from reefrocksrus also, they were nice and clean prolly around 1mm to 10mm in size. I think shipping is just what ups or fedex charges, when they shipped mine there was no difference in shipping price than from the fedex and ups websites, so they must not charge anything additional for the shipping part. I just ordered 4 of those nano arches they have and 40lbs of their drymix and 2bags of their colorant and my shipping came out to around 18bucks.(not bad in my opinion) Im hopeing I should get the stuff by teusday or wednesday so I can make some new rocks myself. I think im having as much fun making the rocks as I am using them. Pretty neat to be able to try almost any type of shapes. Good luck. Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Not to change the subject, but have you been to ReefRocks R Us today? They have started a free raffle to give away a few rocks looks like. Ive entered, aint nothing like free stuff.....WOOT!! Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 oK THANKS SORRY i VE BEEN GONE FOR A FEW DAYS. If I cant find the right sand I might just buy some of the quickrete and mix it with some aragonite. The shipping for all that was only $18!!!!! Wow thats really cheap I might get some mix from them! Yeh, I want to enter one of those raffles! The other batch of LR looks great, I added more cement and water and that seemed to work, only 15 lbs to go! might make more though! Thanks Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 just made some more rock, and I am completly out of sand! Should I just go get some nice aragonite, use the playsand, or buy the oyster shells at Reef rocks r us? Only 5-10 lbs to go! Curing the current batches in the backs of my toilets, and in a few rubbermaid containers. I hope it doesnt take long. Is the reef rocks r us dry mix nice or would it be pretty much the same as making it yourself? Thanks! Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I think its pretty much the same stuff that you could make yourself. I get lazy streaks sometimes and if I dont want to hassle with large bags of items like sand, cement, oystershells, etc.... then ill just order a 10 to 20lb bag of their mix. Guess its more of a convienance factor for me, plus I like the colorant stuff, plain aragocrete while it does start growing stuff on it very quickly, is a very dull plain dark grey on its own. D Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 ok thanks, I decided to just get some more carib sea aragonite, and I think I will be done after I make some frag/ rubble rocks, I have made a total of 50 lbs! Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 I have found that after you make abranch peice you can make the cement/sand mixture a little more watery and then drip it over the brranch, this makes a nice spiny effect, but you have to let it dry longer Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 I am done and curing I hate having to change so much water! Link to comment
SaVeThEeELs Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 does anybody use http://www.reefrocksrus.com/ Is it ok to use this someone tryin to make money off the GARF recipie?? ive used tuffa w/ great success...its got lots of lil holes and stuff for pods and i believe most tuffa is calcium based mineral... limestone can work, but id be careful about rocks you put in the tank b/c you cant be sure what the mineral content is.....anything that looks red is generally full of iron.....youll have an outbreak of algea if you use that kind of rock you basically got to get your limestone from INSIDE a cave or near the ocean for it to be 100% safe Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 whats tuffa? I have read about the limestone, but making your own is safer. Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I dont think that reefrocksrus is using garfs recipie. I have some of both rocks, and they dont look nothing alike at all. Garfs is a finer grain material and looks like more sand, reefrocks is more shells and a lot more open areas in the actual mix. But either way, they both seem to work good, just different looks to them is only difference ive found so far. Link to comment
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