Starting a 40 gallon breeder

[sea man dan]

Ok im starting a 40 gallon breeder (big supprise there) because i love the deminsions and it would be much cheaper than a 55 and a lot more space for livestock than a 10. I would like this reef to be a SPS dominated reef (the SPS bug bit me) maybe some zoas and some blastos withs some rics. But i am having problems finding out what equipment i should use here is some possibiltys i have come up with

 

Lighting-i could either do 2-150 MH's 10K with 2-95 VHO for atenic support which would run me about 600$ or i could do a 250 watt MH 10 k and 2-95 VHO for atenic support which would run me about 450$ (if you can find good deals on these products please tell me ) FYI- all DIY

 

Cirrcualtion - Well i am going to have 2 corner overflows prebuildt dr. foster and smith has there for about 50$ each side. Ill get a link some other time(if you know of a place that is cheaper let me know please) I dont know what kind of return pump i should do though i was thinking a mag 5 or 6? maybe something bigger? on the return i am going to have a SCWD(or whatever that is). In the aquarium i was thinking 2 seios 620 on each side to counter current the other flows?(maybe 820's?) See i oringonally wanted to do a closed loop on a wavemaker but to much money. Or i could do a closed loop with a mag 5 with different outputs? I dont know any crisisim wwill be greatly apprieciated

 

Skimmer - Now i was thinking of placing the skimmer in the Sump/fuge just becasue to keep it off the back of the tank , but i dont know what the most effiecent skimmer is for about 100-175$ range. Was thinking the aqua C remora (urchin) But im not sure (if there is a good price for one lease tell me).

 

Thank you for looking , your knowledge and critism is greatly apprieciated

[jeremai]

Lighting: look into T5 setups - a 6-bulb retro would run $439 plus bulbs (about $20/ea), and would give you tons of light with more color options and less heat than metal halides.

 

Circulation - no idea, I'm too scared to try SPS.

 

Skimmer: I use a Coralife Super Skimmer on my 40B, I think it rocks, and the price is right.

 

There are a bunch of 40B's on here, now - me, Pili, sr71pav, scarf_ace1981, Schwazreef, Zapatista, super95awd, etc. Plenty of ideas to mix and match from. Good luck!

[sea man dan]

So about 550$ for the t-5 fixture?

 

Thx jeremai for you input but see this tank , i would like to be as inxepensive as i can go , but at the same time not cutting corners you know?

[Pili]

Hey, dont feel like typing this all out nice so im just going to list stuff that i think would be good (sorry). Just ask if you have any questions.

 

Lighting: 6 bulb SLS T-5 setup (i have) or a 250-400w SE halide with Good reflector (eg. Lumanarc III)

 

Flow: The seios should be good but your probebly going to want a bigger return pump as the SQWD cuts down on flow quite a bit. I would go with something more in the 800-900 range.

 

Skimmer: I had the remora on my 40 and it didnt cut it IMO (thats why i upgraded to the h and s). I would try going for the ASM g1x or g2 at least, especially if you want this to be sps domiated.

[sea man dan]

Phili do you think you can post me links of the lighting fixture and skimmer , but i mean I just need the skimmer to be in a 100-175$ range (im only 16 paying for all of it) Because i have a limited pocket book with truck payments , insurance, cellphone bill , and extranius stuff.... But for the over flows i was thinking these http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?...Product_Count=1 one on each side. for the return i was thinking maybe a mag 7 or 9.5 . Then i was thinking i could do a closed loop with a strainer dead center of the tank and the outputs on the front corners shooting in tworads the corals with maybe a mag 5 or 7 , do yall know of a place that gives good prices for mag drive pumps? Or is there a better pump out there for the price / quality? Umm for lighting i am still debating on t-5 or MH but see the problem with t-5's is that when replacement of bulbs rolls around big chunk of money each time and with MH its only about 70-120$ (inculding VHO's). Well im not quite sure. But with the sump its going to buildt (by me) i will try to get a pic up of my design. For supplements i will be dosing Liquid reactor(calcium/ ph buff) Essential elements (trace elements) Tech 1 ( Iodine) Coral-vite(viatamins) and liquid bioplankton (for well you know) but i run these on all of my tanks (36g, 30g , 55g, 10g) They are doing great (ill try gets some pics just for grins and giggles ) But did i miss anything....?

 

Once again knowledge and critism is greatly apprieciated

[andykee]

Thx jeremai for you input but see this tank , i would like to be as inxepensive as i can go , but at the same time not cutting corners you know?

based on everything you listed that you wanted, you are looking at at least a $1000 tank (equipment only). if you really want to do it right, save up some more money. trust me, it will end up saving you in the long run! you could also do a smaller tank. a 20 long would be doable for much less than the 40 breeder.

[sea man dan]

Yes i know all of the expensies of this tank . I know its not going to be cheap but what i meant was i whatever i am going to buy i want the product to be as cheap as i can get it . And i love the way the 40 gallons deminsions . And if money goes through the room it isnt that bad of a looking thing to go to a HOB filter tank :-)

[andykee]

I know its not going to be cheap but what i meant was i whatever i am going to buy i want the product to be as cheap as i can get it .

I'm not trying to discourage you, but you really get what you pay for in this hobby. Just a heads up!

[sea man dan]

I understand you a 100% i am saying like if i was going to buy a mag 5 from one place for 60$ but another place is selling the same product for 40$ wouldnt you want to go for the 40$ one? I with you a 100% when you say you get what you pay for . I completly agree with that statement .

 

Thanks for your concern

[jeremai]

I wouldn't get the Mag 5 anyway, hehe.

 

I seriously think the T5 setup would be better for you - something tells me 2-150w metal halides won't cut it; like Pili said, you'd need at least 2-250w. As far as replacement costs, T5's last twice as long as metal halides, and average $20 each - so, cheaper than replacing two metal halide bulbs during the same given span.

 

Of course, you should definitely shop around - but find good deals on the perfect equipment; try not to get the lower-end stuff just because it's cheaper.

[andykee]

I understand you a 100% i am saying like if i was going to buy a mag 5 from one place for 60$ but another place is selling the same product for 40$ wouldnt you want to go for the 40$ one? I with you a 100% when you say you get what you pay for . I completly agree with that statement .

 

Thanks for your concern

gotcha. just trying to save you from the peril of el-cheapo equipment

[Pili]

like Pili said, you'd need at least 2-250w.

 

Actually i think a single 250w (10000k) would be fine as long as there is a good reflector . Just clarifiing.

[jeremai]

Actually i think a single 250w (10000k) would be fine as long as there is a good reflector . Just clarifiing.

No worries. Would a single MH cast enough light to the edges of the tank for SPS?

[andykee]

No worries. Would a single MH cast enough light to the edges of the tank for SPS?

i doubt it. you would need to keep sps towards the middle of the tank (more under the light)

[Pili]

Depends a lot on your halide setup. If you get a high par bulb and a good reflector (any of Sanjay's top 5 are good but the lumenarc lll has the best spread) than a 250w SE IMO would be fine considering how shallow the breeder is (as long as it is around 10K which give off the highest par). If you wanted a bluer bulb than i would suggest going to a 400w which is more cost efficient than going with a 2x MH setup.

 

You may not have be able to keep acros at the very edges but i have no doubt that you could at least keep montis. Remember that light isnt everything.

 

Lumenarc lll (i would recomend-i've seen this in person and the spread is incredible):

http://www.reefexotics.com/lumenarc.htm

[Schwazreef]

just wanna chime in on flow. IMO You need at least a mag 12 on closed loop w/ the scwd for sps. 18 would be better. I run 3 - 400gph PHs's on a wavemaker that runs between 2-3 of the heads for 20x-30x and I have some simple SPS (4 monit, 2 birdsnest). I really like the flow I get but Im under the impression that if I had MH for acro id need a little more kick. Just my $.02.

[Pili]

Shwaz, i think that he was skipping the closed loop for cost concerns and was going to have the SQWD on the return plumbing. In that case you dont want to have to much flow going through the sump.

[sea man dan]

See i was thinking a SQWD on the return to each corner on the back side (from sump ) then a closed loop system and the outputs running to the 2 front corners of the tank (with another SQWD) . Or if i dont want to do a closed loop seios dont look to bad :-) But what about t-5 fixtures does anyone have some good links to sites that sells them for good prices?

 

Everyone thx for your inputs keep em coming

[jeremai]

See i was thinking a SQWD on the return to each corner on the back side (from sump ) then a closed loop system and the outputs running to the 2 front corners of the tank (with another SQWD) . Or if i dont want to do a closed loop seios dont look to bad :-) But what about t-5 fixtures does anyone have some good links to sites that sells them for good prices?

 

Everyone thx for your inputs keep em coming

As far as the SCWDs, from the way you're describing things, you may be better with an Oceans Motions Squirt. Costs a little more at the start, but it would be better for the return or the CLS, since they don't restrict flow like SCWDs do.

 

Were you planning on using the sump as a refugium? If not, you could always get the OM 4-way and plumb it from the sump with a more powerful pump, like a PanWorld or Little Giant. This way, you only have one pump and one wavemaking device for all four outlets, instead of two seperate systems (sump return and CLS). Make sense?

 

As for the lights, the price I quoted you was for this retrofit - you said it was all DIY. Did you need an actual fixture?

 

Edit: Here is the difference - the retrofit comes with three ballasts, and includes six bulbs of your choice. The fixture also has three ballasts, and comes with three 6500K bulbs. It does not have waterproof endcaps.

[andykee]

Were you planning on using the sump as a refugium? If not, you could always get the OM 4-way and plumb it from the sump with a more powerful pump, like a PanWorld or Little Giant. This way, you only have one pump and one wavemaking device for all four outlets, instead of two seperate systems (sump return and CLS). Make sense?

unless noise is an issue. all that water flowing through an overflow and then through the sump could be LOUD!

[reffer9391]

I think that you should do 1 large overflow and then feed it back up with a mag (mag and emieh all i buy) to both the connors then drill the bottom of the back in 2 spots on the sides and close loop it with a SQWD that way you lose no area and looks in tank with PowerHeads. BTW we have a 40g Breeder at work with one 250W MH (AquaMedic) and 2 blue suppliments. We have keep acros and other long term with clams all fine.

[sea man dan]

Jeremai - Thank you for your input and i will defenalty look into the t-5 fixture a little more . But i was thinking of DIYing it because i will be building the hood so if i buy the fixture it would be kinda hard to mount a fixture in a hood... hehe . Unless i could get a really cool looking fixture for the tank and not have a to build a hood :-)

 

Reefer - thats what i am starting to think . Just have one main overflow in the dead center have a SCWD for return shooting out on the top back corners of the tank , then do a closed loop with another SCWD shooting out at the front corners of the tank . (so that would mean have a a output on each orner of the tank-on top)

 

I will try to get a picture of how i want the sump to look like . But guys do yall really feel that t-5 fixture would be better than a 250 watt MH with 10k and 2-VHO for antenic support. I mean i am going for quality but at the same time price.

 

-Daniel

[sea man dan]

Flow - What kind of return pumps do you think i should use if i went with the plan in the last post.

 

Skimmer - I am a little sceptic on which skimmer to get see heres the choices i could go with . remora , coral-life , the gx1 or 2 , primz and back-pak. but these skimmers have all been recomended to me by an asortment of people . Problem is which one? My other problem Is skimmer placement in the sump. Like i see a lot of people just through the skimmer in its own compartment but what i dont see is when the skimmer returns the water it just goes back into the same compartment. So heres what i was thinking place the skimmer in same compartment where the waters comes from the tank (after the water passes through a type of sponge then to carbon then into the compartment) See the pump will be in the compartment and the return will be in the refuge (right next to the first compartment). good idea?

 

Lighting - I am thinking of going with the 6 bulb t-5 setup. But i mean is it really better than a 250 MH and 2 VHO's? Also will the t-5 setup be able to support any kind of SPS i place in the tank or will the coral need to go ina certan spot?

 

Also im trying to get some pics of my other tanks just for grins and giggles

[Guitargod6453]

ASM G2 hands down, I have it and its an awesome skimmer. For the closed loop on the sump return get a Mag 7 and for the real closed loop get a 9.5.

 

Good Luck