Save a Reef, Drill a 10g

[distantfire]

Toolcraft make's a 20 piece set of diamond bit's and Menards sell's the whole set for 5 dollar's they work great in dremel's. If you don't have it yet buy dremel part 4486 it's a real nice key less chuck. And Walmart sell's them for 10 dollar's. While your out shoping pick up some 1/4" arcylic. Drill your hole's in that first and use it for a template on your tank. Your bulkhead's will hold it in place for you after you tighten them down. So you don't have to worry about your BH's breaking the glass. 10 and under aga tank's are easy to drill with a dremel. I just finished puting 2 hole's in the bottom of a 5.5 last night. You can see that new tank in my gallery. I don't make a dam out of putty. I just use a spray bottle filled with water and duct tape the area I want to drill thru. It's very easy just spray as you go starting with the ball bit. A fine point sharpie work's great for tracing your O ring's and slot's etc. on glass. The 2 bit diamond dremel set work's fine you can get a lot of hole's and slot's done with them. It's when you start drilling the bottom's of aga 20H's that they wear out because the glass is thicker.

[Mr. Fosi]

Here is what I am envisioning.

 

 

 

 

And here is a list of equipment (did I miss anything?):

 

2x 10g AGA

1x 10"x12" 1/8" acrylic

3x 10"x7" 1/8" glass

1x 10"x12" 1/4" glass (drilled)

1x Seaclown (modded)

1x water pump (like a Mag5, Quiet 2200, or ViaAqua 1800)

1x 1" bulkhead

lengths of 3/4" & 1" PVC + the stuff needed for the stockman silencer

1x 130W PC fixture

 

The only big-ticket item I am missing is the water pump. I burned $50 of my $80 on the fixture, so now I am going to look for a well priced pump.

 

I have seen pumps online for less than $20, but I am hoping for a used one for less $$.

 

EDIT: What do you think about using a Magnum 350 for the circulation? I already own it and I would run it empty.

[distantfire]

Look's real good Mr. Fosi. Something you might consider doing is making an external overflow box. That way your display tank will have a full front and sides viewing area. And it will give you more space inside the tank for extra coral's etc. Of course you can also make a few small shelf's out of glass and silicone them to the back wall for coral frag's to. With your 130watt light fixture you will most likely need a extra fan to keep the tank's temp. stable. I think you won't be happy running the magnum 350 because it won't produce enough water flow inside the tank. And you will buy a larger pump and to slow down the flow going into your sump/fuge you will use a ball valve. Of course that's just what I think and everybody's opinion will be differnt.

[oogie]

Looks good!

 

I would recommend slower GPH thru your sump, and achieve desired flow thru closed-loop or a powerhead. There is few reasons for this.

 

1. It reduces microbubbles in the system. No matter how well you place baffles, at that high GPH in the sump, there will be microbubbles.

 

2. Your filters, like Skimmer, carbon (if you are planning to run it), and other things will work better.

 

3. Lot less noise. Since less water needs to travle down the stockman, there will be a less noise.

 

 

Hope this helps.

[Mr. Fosi]

... making an external overflow box. That way your display tank will have a full front and sides viewing area.

 

I thought about doing that, but there are a couple problems: 1) I don't trust myself to DIY it and 2) I think the in-tank box'll look funky in a 10g.

 

If I could find one that I was happy with, I would consider it.

 

With your 130watt light fixture you will most likely need a extra fan to keep the tank's temp. stable.

 

Well, its a PC fixture with two built-in fans and will be standing 4-5" off the tank on legs. You still think it'll need a extra fan?

 

I think you won't be happy running the magnum 350 because it won't produce enough water flow inside the tank.

 

Due to the head loss, or you think that 350gph is too little? I like the idea of using a larger pump and dialing it back, b/c it always gives me room for expansion.

 

 

I would recommend slower GPH thru your sump, and achieve desired flow thru closed-loop or a powerhead.

 

Great points. It'll cost me less since the return pump will be smaller and I have pleanty of powerheads laying around.

 

So what sump flow rate are you thinking? 200-250gph? If that range fits, I bet the magnum would meet the need.

 

Since the topic of noise has been brought up, what do you think about making the drain line 1" PVC? I don't know what would cut down on noise and still have a decent flow rate. I wonder if I could do just as much with 3/4" and have less gurgle.

 

Also, has anyone had experience with durso silencers? I helped a friend set up a 55g FW tank with a 15g sump and he is using an external overflow with a stockman. I am not unhappy with its silencing capabilities, but I was wondering if the durso does any better.

[oogie]

I think around 15X the tank volume is ideal for sump. So 200 GPH with headloss would be fine unless your tank and sump is miles apart! LOL

 

I have always used durso. But again, its hard to get it real silent. You will have to play with it.

[distantfire]

The external overflow boxe's are easy to make. I just cut a section of the black trim out of the middle at the top of the back of the tank. Then I dremel a slot out of the glass where the trim was. The length of the slot is 8 inche's long by 3/16" wide. There is enough trim on both side's of the slot removed to silicone the box in place. Water flow's out of the tank into the box and drain's silently down to the sump/fuge. I set a sheet of glass on the top of box for a cover to stop evaporation loss and it help's make it even more silent. The durso is nice and using 2 of them in your overflow box is even better. You can adjust the noise level on them by drilling the hole in the top of the end cap a little bigger. But you have to start with a 1/16" hole and go up from there. A faster way to fine tune them. Is to drill a 1/4" hole in the side of the end cap. And then drill some holes in the pipe. That way when you put the end cap on you can turn the end cap until you have it fine tuned. 3/4" ID black hose line and a valve is all you need to run from the overflow box to your sump/fuge. The hoffer gurgle buster is even easier to put together. Do a web search for hoffer gurgle buster and you will see what I mean. With your light fixture being 4-5 inches above the tank. You might be able to get by without a extra fan. But it depend's on the weather and how hot your home get's in the summer time. The only good thing's about pc's is there cheap to buy and they don't burn as hot as MH. You won't be happy with 350gph in your 10gal tank because it's not enough flow. I got 300gph right now going thru my 5.5 so 350 in a 10gal won't make a ripple. Because your going with over the top return's have you given any thought to running a SCWD.

[Mr. Fosi]

The external overflow boxe's are easy to make. I just cut a section of the black trim out of the middle at the top of the back of the tank. Then I dremel a slot out of the glass where the trim was.

 

I follow you now.

 

I really liked this idea when I first saw in several months ago. What makes me wary of it: 1) cracking the tank by dremeling it so close to the edge and 2) that I haven't yet seen someone make one of these without the plumbing cracking the glass on the bottom of the box.

 

If I saw an working example of this overflow style that had been functioning trouble-free for a period of time, I'd think more seriously about it.

 

That way when you put the end cap on you can turn the end cap until you have it fine tuned.

 

That is a very clever idea! So you prefer dursos?

 

The hoffer gurgle buster is even easier to put together. Do a web search for hoffer gurgle buster and you will see what I mean.

 

It's actually spelled hofer, but here is a link: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/domitron2/HGB/HGB.html

 

This is what I was calling a stockman. There is an LFS here that makes sumps for people and they always use this style of silencer. I like them, but I will certainly have an air valve on mine, unlike the ones the LSF puts together.

 

You won't be happy with 350gph in your 10gal tank because it's not enough flow.

 

I agree, which is why I will probably use some kind of a closed loop or just throw in a couple of my surplus powerheads for additional circulation inside the tank.

 

I think that oogie is right to suggest a lower flow through the sump to eliminate bubbles, which is why I will use my magnum 350 as the return pump (unless I can find a used mag5 or a comperable pump for $15).

 

Because your going with over the top return's have you given any thought to running a SCWD.

 

I have, but I don't have the $$ to buy one, plus I don't have any pumps that would push enough water up through it to make it worthwhile. In the future, when I have the $$ to buy a few more powerful pumps, it is definitely something to consider.

 

Perhaps I should post in RC's want-ads and see if I can find anyone that will sell me a good water pump cheap.

 

 

Update on the progress of this project:

 

Evidently, my dad doesn't have any 1/4" glass sitting around. I was afraid this might happen, so I will call my buddy at the glass shop and see if I can get a piece for cheap (less than $10). If I am able to get it cheap enough, I may have them drill it for me, but I suspect that I will end up having to do it myself due to budgetary constraints.

 

It looks like this project may actually come together, so I have begun researching DIY stands. I was origioinally thinking of making one out of 1"x4" and 1"x6" stained pine, but I now think I may use compressed wood/resin board. I started a thread asking for pics of DIY stands, but I haven't had any replies yet.

[distantfire]

After you finish making the slot. If you want to you can curve the both end's of the slot up to the top of the tank. And then remove the 8" piece of glass that you cut out. But it look's unprofessional to me when it's done like that so I don't do it. Some people just make a row of 1/4" wide slot's 1 1/4" long and that look's nice. But I found that it's easier to make just one long slot. I never worried about the bottom of the box cracking. If the bottom is going to crack it would happen when you drill the bulkhead hole's in it. You can buy picture frames at the dollar store. And use the glass from them to build the box if you have a glass cuter. Or you can have your hardware store cut window glass to size for you. In order to stop algae from growing in the box I painted the back of it to match the back of the tank. I left the side's open because I like to watch the water flow. I like durso's a lot because for me there easy to build and fine tune. The hofer is very quiet and easy to make also that's why I mentioned it. I think Tigah should add it to his DIY list because a lot of people don't know about it. I didn't get a good picture of my bedroom stand. It came out all red for some unknown reason. I don't have a digital camera so I borrowed a friend's. That picture is in my gallery here on N-R. I wanted to show the bannister rail's that I used to make the shelf for my 3 tank system. The 2.5 had a external overflow box that drained into a 5.5 that also had a external overflow box. And then the water drained into my 10gal sump/fuge. I used a quiet one 1200 to pump the water back up to the 2.5. The stand I built out of 1x2's and half inch plywood. It is 40" tall 30" wide and 18" deep and it is pretty heavy even without the back on it or the door's. The store was out of 1/4" plywood that's why I had to use 1/2". If your going to build your stand. I highly recomend using 1 x 2's and 1/4" plywood for the wrap around. I used L bracket's and wood screw's to hold the 1 x 2's together. Then cut the plywood and added it to the 1 x 2 frame. I will be building another new system. And I will take picture's of the whole process and post them here in my gallery. Because people here on N-R are the very best at helping other people.

[Mr. Fosi]

After you finish making the slot....

 

How do you cut the slot without cracking the pane? Cutting so close to the edge of the glass seems like a real challenge.

 

I like this idea because I already have the 1/8" glass and the cutter to make the box and it takes up no real estate in the tank, but I am a little freaked about trying to dremel 1/8" glass less than 1" from the edge.

 

You say you did this on a 2.5g and a 5.5g, how?

 

Oogie (or anyone else), do you have any expertise in this area?

 

I didn't get a good picture of my bedroom stand... That picture is in my gallery...

 

I tracked the pic down, messed with it a little, and was able to make out some of the details. I like the look of the stand, but I am going to try for something that is enclosed with a cabinet-style door to hide the sump.

 

I'll bet the white balance (in addition to not using a flash) was the reason the pic came out red.

 

I highly recomend using 1 x 2's and 1/4" plywood for the wrap around. I used L bracket's and wood screw's to hold the 1 x 2's together. Then cut the plywood and added it to the 1 x 2 frame.

 

This is just what I was thinking of doing, sans the L brackets. I am still not sure if I will swap out the 1x2s for 1x4s, though. I bet it'll look pretty good once it is painted.

 

I have a drawing of what I want to do, but no scanner to scan it with. I thought about drawing it up in a vector drawing program, but I haven't yet had the time.

 

I discovered that I can buy a piece of 24"x10" 1/4" glass for about $9, but it'd cost me an additional $26 for them to drill the 1.75" hole required for the bulkhead, so it'll be the dremel for me!

 

I'm still looking for a return pump, so I started a thread in the classified section.

 

Things are still moving forward, but I don't want to start any drilling until I can get all the details on this external overflow idea.

[distantfire]

On the inside of the tank use a fine point sharpie and a ruler to draw a 8 inch long 3/16 inch wide slot. Next cut off 8 1/2 Inches of the black trim that hang's down on the back of the tank. So that you can see the slot you drew inside the tank. I Leave the top of the black trim in place so that I can still put a cover on the tank when I'm done. But it's up to you if you want to keep the trim there or not. Next take some strips of duct tape and put it on the inside and outside of your tank where the slot is. The duct tape help's stop vibrations from the dremel tool. Then put a bath towel inside your tank so that when the slot is cut out the glass piece fall's on the towel. Start with the round ball bit and trace the slot. I use water from a spray bottle to keep the bit wet. The area that your drilling turn's white like frost. The water help's keep the bit clean so it can cut easier. Your slot won't wash off because you drew it inside the tank. You can do the whole slot using nothing but the ball bit. But after the ball bit has cut thru the glass about a 1/16" I switch over to the tapered bit. The tapered bit cut's thru faster if you move it up and down on a slight angle. Because the diamond's are spread out along the shaft. Now your slot is done. Paint the back of the tank any color you want. And because you cut the black trim 8 1/2" long. You can silicone the box right into place. Make yourself comfortable practise drilling on some old window glass. So you can get a feel for it and take your time. My cabinet is under the 5.5 in the picture. I will try to get a better picture of it. But it's going to be a few week's because I have to move it. And I don't have a camera.

[Mr. Fosi]

I am intrigued by this idea and I am tempted to try it.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this type of overflow?

 

Also, I have come up with a digital drawing of what I am planning for a stand.

 

I am open to suggestions, questions, and criticism.

 

 

[distantfire]

I got a red x where your digital drawing is suppose to be. I tried show the picture but nothing came thru. My computer must be having a bad hair day. When you make the overflow box for your tank. Make it longer, wider and deeper. You want the box longer so that you can fit 2 durso's in it. You can use one durso but it's better if you have 2. In case one should ever get pluged and you have to clean it. The nice thing about durso's is you never have to glue them together so there easy to take apart and clean. You need the box deeper so you have room for the durso's to stand. And you want the box wider than 4" so can fit your hand inside if you need to make adjustment's to the durso's. The slot would still be 8"x 3/16" long to easily handle the overflow. The box on a 10gal would be more like 12 x 4 1/2 x 9. With the top open on my 10 using a 96watt powerquad. I lost almost a half a gallon of water to evap. every 2 day's. The 8 1/2 inch box I mentioned earlier was used for a single durso on a 5.5. That's why you should build the box bigger for your 10gal.

 

 

Now your drawing came thru plain as day. Without the red x how about that! In the first drawing where C is under your top tank. That would be a real nice place to have a drawer. And on the B's maybe you could add a couple shelf's inside for extra storage.

[Mr. Fosi]

... you should build the box bigger for your 10gal.

 

But if I build it much bigger than the one you did for your 5.5 (the same one in your gallery, right?), then I am going to have to worry about supporting the weight of the water in the overflow box.

 

An overflow box of 12"x4.5"x9" will have a water volume of ~2g. Given that the box will never be full to the brim (let's hope not, anyway!), we can assume that it'll probably hold at least 1.5g of water at any given time.

 

Salt water weighs ~8.5lbs, but to factor in some safety, let's call it 9lbs. That means that the external box will have to hold a load of around 13.5lbs minimum and 18lbs maximum.

 

I don't know if I can trust 3 silicone joints to a hold an 18lb box of water against the tank.

 

What is the volume of the largest external overflow you have done, or witnessed?

[distantfire]

I thought the same thing before I built my first one. How can a simple glass box hold all that water. But then when you look at your display tank. It's just a simple glass box with a little black plastic trim. Your external flow box is built stronger than the tank itself. A total of six silicone joint's hold the box to the back of tank. Starting with the bottom I silicone both side's of the glass length wise. Next I add one end and make it a 1/4" longer than the bottom and silicone both side's of it length wise. Then I do the same thing for the other end. So the box has a total of six joint's holding it to the back of the tank. The largest one I built is 20" x 4" x 16" total volume filled was 5.5 gal's. But now it's never full because 2 durso's are in that one. You can see the new one I built on my 2.5 in my gallery. It's 9" x 4" x 7.25" total volume filled would be 1.1gal. I never worry about the box's coming off due to the extra weight of the water. I hope to have a complete walk thru done this week.

[Mr. Fosi]

I am becoming convinced to try this.

 

Three more questions:

 

1) Would I really have to have two stand pipes on a 10g? I already own a 1" bulkhead and I don't want to spend another $7 to buy another one.

 

2) Where do you find those diamond dremel bits and for how much $?

 

3) Have you been using 1/8" glass to make your boxes?

 

 

Update on the rest of the project:

 

I posted in RCs want ads for a pump that'd do 200gph at 4 ft, but I have had no responses and it has been three days. It is starting to look like I might have to pay retail or go the ebay route.

 

I talked to one of my brothers-in-law and he was able to come up with all the 1x material that I need to build the frame of the stand. He also had some 1/2" plywood, but I think that would make the stand really heavy, so I still want to use 1/4".

 

I have all the frame material cut to approximate lengths (a little long in all cases) until I am able to get over to yet another brother-in-laws house to use his table saw.

 

Things are starting to speed up as we get closer to our July moving date, so I am going to have make time to get this done. I really need a couple hours where I can take my time and make sure that things get measured and contructed right. If I rush the process of putting it together it is going to look like crap and may not function correctly.

[distantfire]

1.} You wouldn't have to have 2 on a 10gal. one will work just fine. When you go larger then 10gal. it's nice to have 2 because your dealing with a larger volume of water. 2.} Walmart, homedepot, and lowes sell diamond coated drill bit's for dremel tool's. You can buy a 2 pack of bit's from them for about 6 buck's. You get one ball bit and 1 tapered bit and you can do plenty of holes and slot's with them on tank's that are 10gal and under because the glass is thin. www.harborfreight.com sell's a 10 piece diamond bit set for 7.99 and they have a 50 piece set for 13.99. I just buy the 20 piece set's made by a company called tool shop at Menards for 5 buck's and they work fine. You might want to check at Sears also because they sell the roto zip. And you might get lucky finding some diamond bit's there that will fit your dremel. I don't know what you have for stores that are close by you but I hope this help's. 3.} Yes for glass to make the box's I just use 1/8 inch single strength window glass and cut it down to size. If you don't feel comfortable cuting it yourself have a hardware store or glass shop cut the pieces to size for you.

 

Yeah it's nice to be able to take your time and get the job done right. I'm having new window's installed so I have been busy moving my stand's and tank's. When I get free time to work on my 2.5 I snap a picture with my friend's camera and add it to my gallery.

[distantfire]

Bump:

 

How's your stand coming? Have you taken any pic's of it yet.

[Mr. Fosi]

Sorry, man.

 

I was out of town this weekend for a friend's wedding shower and beer-brewing session.

 

I have the wood, but every night that I wanted to work on it, something else has come up or a friend has dropped in.

 

My wife and I are going to South Carolina to scout apartments this weekend and we have a BBQ at a friend's place tomorrow night, so I am not sure when I am going to get this done.

 

I really want to work on it, but I need a good 3-4 hours to do it so I can take my time.

 

Beginning next week, I may have to start telling people that even though I am moving in a month and a half, I am not going to spend every waking moment with them, since I have some projects that I want to get done.

 

I'll keep posting here as I get it done. I will get it done.

[distantfire]

I know you will get r done when you have the extra time. It's nice to have friend's that want to help you out. I'm working on the 5.5 sump/fuge for my 2.5. I have to put some pic's of it in my gallery for my older brother down in Arkansaw. He has cancer really bad and my mom and him like to sit and look at the picture's. I just wish I owned a good digital camera so the picture's would come out better. Good luck finding your apartment this weekend.

[calvin]

Beginning next week, I may have to start telling people that even though I am moving in a month and a half, I am not going to spend every waking moment with them, since I have some projects that I want to get done.

 

Yes, the homo sapiens need to learn that reef > people!!!

[Mr. Fosi]

Yes indeed, calvin. My friends need to learn that my reef comes first! I keep telling people that having a 5.5g reef tank is like having a special-needs child, but they just haven't caught on yet.

 

I was able to free up about 5 hours last night to work on the stand, so I did. I forgot to bring my (boss's) camera, so no pics. Sorry.

 

I was able to gain use of a table saw belonging to of one of my brothers-in-law. I took all my wood over there and spent 5 hours getting it all measured, cut and partially constructed. I was kind of fumbling along until said brother-in-law came home and made some very helpful suggestions. In the end, we got all but the plywood skin put together.

 

The wood was very warped, so it was a lot of "fun" trying to get everything to square up and pull tight. We were finally able to get it pretty tight through the use of c-clamps and 30+ screws. Once I have it sanded down, I will probably go over all the cracks with some caulk, to make sure that it doesn't have any gaping crevasses that will make the finished product look like a 7th grader made it.

 

In addition to the wood being very warped, it is also very rough. I had to lightly sand the corners of all boards before I cut them lest I get splintered, since they were chockablock full of splinters.

 

The splinters are the least of the problems, because I will need to do a lot of sanding before it can be painted. I am not too worried though; this same brother-in-law also has an orbital and a belt sander.

 

Once I pick up the plywood, I estimate that it will take ~5 more hours to get it fully constructed and prepped for painting.

 

I'm glad I got much of this done. It will be much easier for my wife to accept that I want to finish the stand rather than begin the stand.

[distantfire]

Have you had any luck finding a pump with a flow rate of 200gph?

[Mr. Fosi]

Negative. If I could find one for cheap, I would buy a Mag5.

 

As it is, I am virtually out of $$ for this project. I just have a few dollars left for the remaining wood and paint.

 

I do have a magnum 350 canister filter (350gph @ 0ft), though. So my plan is to use the canister (empty of any media) as my return pump.

 

I don't know how this will work out, but we will see.

 

I am going to try and finish the stand this week, then I will drill the display tank.

[distantfire]

Sound's like a good plan. I still have my friend's camera. And I'm going to build another nano latter this week. I'll add the picture's of it to my gallery. And I'll try to do a better step by step walk thru. This camera need's a lot of light for the picture's to turn out. It's just 2.0 mega pixel but I'm glad he is leting me use it.