How much rock?

[NaH20]

I know this isn't quite a "nano-reef" but I figure some of you guys here have regular size reefs too and might be able to help. How much rock would you guys suggest for a 40gallon tank. The reason I was asking was because I was thinking of ordering from tampabaysaltwater.com and I was wondering if their recipe was a bit on the "over-doing it" side. I already have several pieces of base rock I 'm thinking of using, but was wondering what you would suggest if I just decided to order everything from them to start up. The dimensions of the tank are 30"W x 12"L x 22"H. Also, the hood comes with 2 strip lights but even though I have been reading a lot about lighting, I find that a lot of peope are custom building their lighting setups. I'm not handy at that kind of thing at all, and was wondering if I would be able to order two bulbs to fit in the hood i have already or if I would have to get another type hood? Hope you guys can offer some helpful advice.

1) How much live rock for a 40gallon setup

2) What type of lighting for the tank...............

[glazer]

Tampa Bay says about 2 lbs. of rock per gallon, yes? A good guideline is usually 1 to 2 lbs per gallon. You need to know though that the aquacultured rock is typically way more dense than other types. Fiji, Tonga and Marshall rock being much lighter.

Just a a crude reference... I have seen several softball sized pieces of Gulf rock that weigh around 5 lbs or so and a similiar sized pieces of Fiji rock barely weigh a pound. Keep in mind too that with your um, LARGER nano,hehe you are prolly going to be buying more corals complete with rock as opposed to smaller frags either loose or mounted on just small pieces of rubble.

Which brings me to your lights... what you want to keep in the tank in the way of livestock will determine what you need in the way of lighting. Pretty sure you just have normal output fluorescent tubes now in your strip lights which will severely limit you in stocking choices.. could prolly do a nice setup with 'shrooms and/or some polyps but not too much else. One of our sponsors, AHSupply makes some nice retro fit kits that really are extremely easy to install...if you want to stay with your existing strip lights. Otherwise there is a plethora of lighting choices....I wouldn't even know where to begin. Decide what you want to keep and a budget you have in mind for lighting and I'm sure you will get some great suggestions.

[NaH20]

Glazer, (on the lighting)

Well, most of the comments I have read about Tampa Bay Saltwater aquacultured rock says that it is so full of life, with all kinds of coralline algae, sponges, corals, clams, and all types of critters on it. I am pretty sure I will want to keep all this stuff alive, so the lighting would have to accommodate that. As far as investment on the lighting, I know it can be pretty pricey, but since I am "mechanically challenged" I know I wouldn't be able to rig one of the cool light setups I see so many people on the board talking about, so the lighting situation would have to either be 1) two bulbs that would fit in the existing hood, or 2) a hood complete with the excess lighting I would need, that fits the aquarium...........I figured the most expense (besides the rock) would be the lighting anyway, because I have all the other equipment, so I am somewhat prepared. I just don't want to have to spend 3 or 4 hundred dollars for lighting for a 40gallon setup....Glazer, give me your thoughts.

[tinyreef]

while i agree with glazer's comments, tangster (over at saltaquarium.about.com) mentioned an issue with such well aquacultured rocks.

 

because tb's aquacultured LR are so full of life they may not be the best choice to cycle with as most hitchhiking life will likely die off. it may be a better choice to add the aquacultured LR right after your 'true cycle'. you may still get a cycle but the hitchhikers should have a better chance to survive. (i.e. get decent base LR and after cycle add on decorative aquacultured)

 

just an interesting take on it imo.

[NaH20]

With Tampa Bay Saltwater, what they do is send you the first batch of rocks and sand to cycle your tank with, then they send you the second batch after you tell them your tank has cycled. This second batch comes with your cleanup crew as well. Supposedly the first batch is the equivalent of base rock, but I am told it has a lot of life form on it. Then the second batch is supposed to be the more decorative rock, and it has just tons more of life forms on it. IMO if you were to add the uncured aquacultured rock to an established aquarium like you're suggesting, wouldn't it cause your aquarium to go throgh a second unneccessary cycle? I do have some base rock that I could cycle the aquarium with, but I would still have to wait on 2 separate shipments of rock that would cause the tank to cycle all over again once the 1st shipment is placed in there. Since I am told the rock is much denser, I have no idea what size pieces I may get, so what I was planning to do was use my existing base rock, (nice large interesting shaped pieces) to cycle the tank along with the first batch of rock they send me. I still need to devise something for my lighting. What type of bulbs? How many watts?

[tinyreef]

whiterat had mentioned something similar when he bought his LR. unfortunately, it depends on many factors such as: how the LR was treated. poor packaging, receiving system's conditions, and acclimation procedures may cause a lot of dieoff regardless.

 

what i suggested (actually what tangster commented on) was that the 'extra' life most likely will not survive a true cycle. having a somewhat stable system first to receive the 2nd shipment (tbs's own theory too it seems, which is very logical) allows more to survive.

 

start with your base rock imo and gauge how much (visual) room you have left or want to fill up. then apply tbs's 2 lb/gal rule. they are probably going that high because they know their rock is denser (originally quarried from the land).

 

lighting depends upon your livestock and budget. if you have no preference then layout your tank. its aquascape could then point you in a general direction.

 

reefs don't necessarily need rock btw. lagoon or seagrass system, for instance. or they could be all rock and no sand on the other hand.

[NaH20]

Whiterat,

I notice the dimensions of your 30g are quite similiar to my 40g. My dimensions are 30'W x 22'H x 12'L. I also notice you got your light setup from PetSupply Liquidators. I will be getting my LR from TBSW and I am sure I will want to keep a variety of things in the aquarium, as well as trying to keep most of the stuff that came on the rocks alive. My question for you is how much did your light setup cost you and is it something that is custom, or is it a hood that you ordered and then ordered the bulbs seperately? I would appreciate your feedback.

 

I am going to check PetSupply Liquidators right now to see if I can navigate through the madness...............

[WhiteRat]

Whoa, I hadn't read this board in a while, and here's someone asking me questions. Good thing I looked...

 

Okay, Important to note: This is based on my limited experience, and YMMV (and likely does).

 

Most of the stuff on my first batch of LR from TBSW did -not- die. I was stunned at how much life was on and in it. I STILL have tons of things in my tank that I haven't identified and have no clue what they are other than, 'Uh, it's a crab that's sort of a filter feeder, it has little fans on its forelegs that it waves around and licks off. Big claws but I never saw it attack anything.' and similar rough descriptions. I had a mild cycle. I lost some sponges, but not many, and had very colorful, happy looking rock after the cycle.

 

When the second batch arrived, it was mind-numbingly MORE life-filled than the first batch. I had this crazy image of somebody holding the rock, picking up handfuls of stuff, going 'Come on, you can find someway to attach' *SLAP* and just trying to cram stuff into every crack and crevice. I'm not saying that's what TBSW did, of course, as that's silly and just wouldn't work, but MY GOD DID THAT ROCK HAVE LIFE ON IT.

 

Unfortunately, it had SO MUCH life that I had a second cycle. And that second cycle was nasty. I lost some of the stuff on the original rock, and ended up taking my entire tank apart and scrubbing every single rock, picking off dead/dying sponges to help reduce the decaying biomass that was causing such a nasty cycle. This took me the better part of a day and a half.

 

I'm NOT saying this will happen to you, and I'm NOT saying that TBSW's ideas/procedure are bad. The result was a reef I am very happy with and very proud of.

 

I am just saying that starting with rock with tons of life on it will more than likely require more attention and hand labor on your part during startup than, say, 'cured' rock that is nearly dead except for coralline. And I think you will face this ANY time you add a lot of uncured rock to a 'stable' tank.

 

I personally think it's worth the extra effort. I've got stuff in my tank I couldn't possibly order online, since I don't even know what the hell it is, other than it looks really pretty and doesn't seem to be destroying anything else...

 

Okay. I got my lighthood from Pet Supply Liquidators, and they were a 'standard' design that he(they) carry. From the bulb options for that design, I selected two 50/50 10K/true actinic 55Ws and 1 10K 175 MH. I think I paid around $250 for the whole rig. The MH ballast is in a separate box with about 6' of cable linking it to the hood so its heat is far, far away from your aquarium. Me likey.

 

I am considering trying to rewire this with another big 175W MH pot to hold a 20K, or a 'true actinic' if such a thing exists in MH. Gonna have to learn some stuff about electrical things first.

 

As near as I can tell, more light is usually better, until stuff starts to bleach (hasn't happened to me yet).

[glazer]

well am back and catching up....hehe

 

Na,

As the others have mentioned I wholeheartedly recommend checking into PSL as well... Bruce, from what dealing I have had with him as well as talking to him in chat seems to be a very amiable fella and willing to work with you on just about any lighting arrangement you would want.

Again I urge you to form a game plan in your head as to livestock you want... you mentioned lighting to support your rock. I don't think it would be too far off for me to say that the majority of the life on your rock that survives shipping AND cycling is going to be anything that is truly "light-needy". You could prolly have some truly nice looking rock with no more than the strip lights you already have.

Lots of options on your tank... PC's and Halides come in just about every configuration for nano sized tanks but YOU also have the options of going with VHO lighting as well.

Personally I would recommend going with a very abundant amount of light from the very beginning as this will save you the cost of an upgrade later AND not to mention... most corals can adapt to very high light levels easily, not too well the other way around though.

Sooooo, recommendations? Well ME, I would look into a metal halide hood and possibly VHO or PC actinic equipped. Most halides are recommended for covering a 24" wide area but I don't think the extra 6" on your tank is that big a deal. Starting to fantasize here...lol, think I would get me a price from Bruce for one of his UltraReef fixtures (optional legs included) decked out with either a pair of 150 or 250 watt DE halides....20,000K bulbs, screw the actinics!,hehe Sccccccchhhhhweeeeeeeeeeet!

[WhiteRat]

So, Glazer, what's your opinion of my potential 20K 175WMH upgrade? I stuck a full writeup of what I've got/intend here.

 

Ratty Ratty's Reef

[glazer]

Well Ratty, I DO indeed understand what you are saying about the yellow appearance.... In my past bigger tanks setups I almost always used Iwasaki bulbs offset with a butt-load of actinics. Old finishing trick...how do you make white look more white? You add a touch of blue to it.

I think changing out your bulb(s) to either Ushios or AB's would prolly give you the look yer after. I will tell you I did try a Coralife bulb once...it was given a 14K spec. I tell you what if indeed there is an all-actinic halide um that would be it! Not even a Radium running on a standard ballast, as opposed to overdriven with an HQI ballast is THAT blue. I can only imagine what their 20K bulb must look like.... prolly like ya ought to have a rave going on in the crib...lol

I just don't know what to tell you though exactly as like I said, way more 'saki experience here.... I do know though that if you were looking at DE bulbs I would not for a moment hesitate to tell you to try out an Ushio 20K... I am running one by itself(no actinics) and I can tell you it is hands down the best color I've seen coming off a halide... incredibly white/blue.... hell even the rocks seem to glow!...lol I've put a couple SPS frags in my tank already that were, I THOUGHT doing well under the PC's and the color change and fluoresceing in just a little over a week is unbelievable.

Summation.... go with an Ushio or AB bulb, just one first.... THEN see what you think, and move on to the second if you need it. You may lose a few bucks in the deal if you decide you don't like your bulb choice but I would rather try and sell one than two and the boys over at RC seem to snatch up "hardly-used" bulbs rather quickly if you want to try something else.

[NaH20]

Glazer,

Those were my thoughts exactly. I would much rather outfit the tank with too much light from the beginning so I won't have to go back and make a costly upgrade later on. However, I am not able to find any information on Pet Supply Liquidators online. I mean I did go to a website, but I could not see any inventory. Is it a retail store only?

 

Thanks guys.

[glazer]

Hmmm Na.... not sure why you would have probs with the site or getting info. I know Bruce just redesigned his site, maybe you caught it when it was being worked on....

Click on his banner at the top of the page when it shows up or hell just go here! A reminder, as stated before he will custom make anything you want... you are not limited to the setups he has pictured.