Chaeto not doing well

[Newbie527]

Fosi - babe...you should have asked me...

I sent you the dying chaeto...just kidding.

 

people have said the right things.

A. set up timer so the fuge is lit opposite of your display (which I think you said you may already do)

B. go get yourself a brighter reflector bulb. you don't have to get the plant "decor"bulb that they sell b/c that is just a regular bulb with a blue coating on it to make your plant "look better"....just it costs more money.I believe i used to have a regular plant grow light bulb that blew out eventually and that worked well but i just picked up the regular reflector light and it works just as well.. just make sure it isn't in a splash zone and if gets hot under the cabinet throw a mini fan under there.

I think i have a 60 watt under there right now. but hell i have chaeto growing in my display where the sun don't shine...so I don't even know if you need real intense lighting. In fact when i put some in my display tank it turns real light green and gets straight strings but when in my fuge (with lower light) it gets its normal texture of brillo pad like - real dark green, hard and tight curls.

 

Hope it works out.

 

J

[fluidimagery]

Newbie527 is there some sort of acclimation process with the Chaeto.

 

Reason I ask is that I have a newly setup tank with the melev fuge bulb that's in the link posted above (19w / 95w) and the chaeto is falling apart and was wondering what the cause would be. Tank is about 3 weeks old levels are:

NH3: 0

NO2:0

NO3: 5

PO4: .2

CA: 400

ALK: 120 meq/l

 

I run the lights on opposite schedules

Tank (150w 20k) 10am - 5pm (7hrs)

Fuge (19w/95w 5100k) 5pm - 10am (17hrs)

[MillerLite]

In many cases, its the calcium that needs to be evaluated. Most macroalgae require a high, stable level of calcium much like coralline requires, to ensure proper growth. Check your calcium levels. Low calcium would equal brittle algae.

 

Plus sodium thiosulphate although effective is not as innocuous for your tank as one would think. Tap water has both chlorine and chloramines that require a high level of the stuff to ensure quenching of these water elements. Have you tried to test for either? Also, since you have a 5.5, why not go with distilled water in gallon jugs. You only have to change half a gallon or so at a time. One jug may last you two weeks. Rule of thumb..if it smells bad, dont add it. Sodium thiosulphate can smell bad..so why add more to your tank then necessary.

 

Good luck!

 

Oh one other thing..i have never heard of anyone acclimating chaeto algae since it seems to do so well in most setups. Does anyone acclimate chaeto before adding to their tank or refugiums?

[fluidimagery]

By acclimating I meant... adjustment time once the chaeto is added to a new setup.

 

I'll check my calc levels tomorrow. I'm switching my salt from Tropic Marin (regular) to Tropic Marin Pro Reef as soon as i'm done wiht my bucket of the regular stuff, so I'm a litte weary of adding calc to the tank seperately.

[Mr. Fosi]

In many cases, its the calcium that needs to be evaluated. Most macroalgae require a high, stable level of calcium much like coralline requires, to ensure proper growth. Check your calcium levels. Low calcium would equal brittle algae.

 

Indeed. I have not tested for Ca, however, as I understand, halimeda has heavy Ca requirements. I have some halimeda in my display and it is really growing like gangbusters. If what I have heard about halimeda is true, then its growth indicates a sufficiant level of Ca.

 

Plus sodium thiosulphate although effective is not as innocuous for your tank as one would think. Tap water has both chlorine and chloramines that require a high level of the stuff to ensure quenching of these water elements. Have you tried to test for either? Also, since you have a 5.5, why not go with distilled water in gallon jugs. You only have to change half a gallon or so at a time. One jug may last you two weeks.

 

Yet another good point. My municipality doesn't use chloramine, though I am sure that there is a small amount present. Generally, I mix up batches of sea water that sit for days before I use them. Even so, I have switched to store-bought RO water. I just mixed up 5gal of seawater last night using RO, and it will all go 10gal split when I roll everything over this weekend.

 

Reef, thanx for the link; I had forgotton about that DIY article. Newb, point taken on the reflector bulb. I have thought all along that this was probably a case of lighting insufficiancy rather than water chemistry, given that other macro in the display is doing fine.

 

I don't have the $$ (yes I know $10 is cheap) for the bulb right now, so I think I will move the chaeto into the display until I get paid next friday.

 

As for the acclimating chaeto thing, I wouldn't think that any sort of macroalgae would need to be acclimated. I would say that almost any type of macro would be third behind cyanobacteria and diatoms for hardiness. Do you guys agree?

 

EDIT: For those of you who want a chemistry lesson: Sodium Thiosulphate & Chlorine 2-Step Reaction in Freshwater

 

Na2S2O3 + 4Cl2 + 5H2O -> 2NaHSO4 + 8HCl

12NaS2O3 + 12HCl -> 12NaCl + 6H2O + 9S + 15SO2

 

I'm pretty sure that's correct... Anyone disagree with my stoichiometry?

[MillerLite]

Perhaps with the halimeda growth, there is some kind of competition going on between the algae species, not only for calcium, but for other nutrients and water components as well. Perhaps reduce some of your chaeto load to see if this helps. Maybe with all of the algae growth, you might be taxing your system a bit much for the resources available in 5 g of water. Also could try and do water changes more often to see if replenishment of various components in the salts can help. This would also help to reduce the impact of teh two little fishes you have in your tank on overall health of your tank.

 

Good luck!

[Mr. Fosi]

Perhaps with the halimeda growth, there is some kind of competition going on between the algae species, not only for calcium, but for other nutrients and water components as well. Perhaps reduce some of your chaeto load to see if this helps. Maybe with all of the algae growth, you might be taxing your system a bit much for the resources available in 5 g of water. Also could try and do water changes more often to see if replenishment of various components in the salts can help. This would also help to reduce the impact of teh two little fishes you have in your tank on overall health of your tank.

 

Interesting ideas... They make sense.

 

I suppose we'll see what they are made of when things get rolled into the 10g. With the move there will be a 70-80% increase in water volume and that additional % will be all freshly mixed RO-based sea water.

 

I like this competition idea. I wish that I had the testing gear so I really do some manipulation of the system.

[Biotoper]

I had chaeto growing in my AC500 for a while with just lateral light from my tank lights, and while it did not grow much, it maintained itself and did not die back. So, an improved bulb might solve the problem, but I don't think it is the light. I also don't think it is your dechlorinated tap water, although if you don't want to get a RO/DI (and I actually probably wouldn't recommend it, if you only have 5.5g), I would recommend getting a tap water purifier which will take out the chlorine, chloramine, and some metals, both for you and your tank; or just buy RO water at a supermarket or LFS (with just 5.5g I think it will take a couple years for your own RO/DI to pay for itself vs buying the water).

 

I think other algae in your tank is outcompeting the chaeto. It might partly be insufficient nutrients to go around, particularly given your lower fuge light, but algae, not just coral, produce allelopathic chemicals, which is why many people do not recommend growing more than 1 type of macro in a system.

 

Lastly, since just the tops tips are dying, it may be that not all of the chaeto bundle is getting good flow. It's preferable for the wad to be constantly tumbling, but this is hard to do with a power filter flow setup. When you do your water changes, rinse the chaeto in the old water and replace it upside-down, more spread out, etc.

 

Ryan

[zachtos]

Your Light is probably fine, lights high in red spectrum grow plants faster. I myself use a custom Red/Blue/UV LED light to grow mine at a moderate rate. No wasted energy in the green/unused spectrum.

 

I recommend trying an Iron supplement. Plants need iron to grow, and if your brand of salt is low in iron, your macro may use it up too fast. Lots of people add small amounts of iron just to boost macro growth.

 

Aside from Iron, i suggest using RO or distilled H20, I buy 6gallons/month for my 6 gallon tank, 1 gallon/wk evap and 0.4G/wk PWCs. It costs me $3.84/mo for water, still cheaper then a RO/DI system and it solve MANY problems aside from your chaeto issue.

[reefed sail]

Hi everyone. Im new to the fourm but not to reefs. After a ten year time off I'm finally back to the hobby. Man I cannot beleive how things have changed for the better in 10 years!!!! Back then reef tanks of nano size were nearly impossible.

 

Anyway, fluidimagery , you reported your ALK as 120 meq/l. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that waaaaay off the charts. I think the normal level is around 4-5 meq/l. If this really is 30X over normal, that could definately be bad for the chaeto.

[Mr. Fosi]

UPDATE: I moved the chaeto out of my mini 'fuge and into the main display while I worked on getting a better light. It died.

 

It gradually shrunk in size as pieces of of fell off and were sucked into the filter or deposited in all the nooks and crannies of my tank.

 

I did a water change two nights ago and I took every piece of LR out of the tank, and swished it in the old water to get the chaeto pieces off. After netting, grabbing, and filtering (with filter floss) all the dead chaeto I could find, I put the LR back in.

 

There was an amazing amount of decaying plant matter in the old water, on the rocks, and in the filter floss. Maybe now I will be able to get a handle of the hair algae that has sprung up since this whole macroalgae drama started....

 

PS: The halimeda is doing better now than it ever has. It has sprouted 3-4 new thalli in as many days.

[zeuss zoso]

I just put some chaeto in my 60g under 130W of PC towards the top and the tips are becoming white...is this not enough light or what is going on?

[Mr. Fosi]

...is this not enough light or what is going on?

 

As evidenced above, I have no clue. I went into this thinking that I had a good idea of what chaeto would need to survive and I was way wrong.

 

Maybe someone else with experince will step in here.

[formerly icyuodd/icyoud2]

its not the light, my cheato thrives under a 27 watt 6500k screw in bulb (a foot above my sump)

sorry not sure why your having problems. do you ever thin it out?

[Mr. Fosi]

do you ever thin it out?

 

I think you mean 'did' I ever thin it out, since I trashed it almost a week ago.

 

It thinned itself out, it didn't need any help from me. It failed to thrive even when I pulled all the dead stuff out and realized that the healthy stuff was only about 1/5 volume of what I saw. Even after that, it continued to deteriorate.

 

The upside is that I am using the dirty-as-heck water from the salvage water change as the test water for my DIY PVC skimmer.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80094

 

At this point, I am going to chalk it up up to a learning experience and move on.

[qualudethunder]

I agree with MillerLite. The main reason people put macro in their refugium is to compete against any algae growth in the main display tank. Sounds like your setup is working backwards. Being that its only a 5 gallon I would think that pushes that idea even more. I wanted to grow some macro in my main tank after my fuge was established... no go. I could not get any macro to grow in the main tank.

A little more light and a 24/7 light cycle will give the chaeto an edge on the halimeda. Only problem is that your halimeda will probably start to die off. In the past I have had to "feed" my refugium to try and cut down on the competition, but in the end you usually have one or two macro that dominates all.

I think the 67k home depot curly compact pcs should be fine. No need to go crazy on lighting for macro. They like the cheap stuff.

Hope that helps for your next setup!