smfyr241 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Ok...I have a 12 gal. eclipse. I have been told that I should not run the bio wheel and take out the filter cartrige. I have had my tank running for about 3 months now with the wheel and filter. I am noticing green alge on the glass and brown alge on the live sand. Live stock is as follows:1-six line wrasse 1-yellow coris wrasse 1-watchman goby 1- coral banded shrimp 1-emerald crab 5-red leg hermits 2-zebra hermits 2- queen conch 1- bumblebee 2-feather dusters 1- small rock frag with 10 very small polyps Lighting is a 36 watt smart light 50/50. I also have a zoo med powerhead. I am trying to get an answer on this so I can start in with bigger corals. I did add an elecric eye scallop that died 4 days after purchase. I do a 2 gal. water change on saturdays....religiously!! I do not have a test kit. Any advise is appreciated. Link to comment
Brianc_4 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Okay, here is the deal with bioliogical filtration, such as the bio-wheel. They encorage the growth of bacteria that breaks down nitrites to nitrates. Good for freshwater, or systems without live rock. you do not want your nitrites broken down into nitrates in a reef. A different process will happen in your live rock where oxygen is sparse that will break down nitrites into nitrogen and oxygen, which will then bubble out of your tank, completing the natural cycle. If you use biological filtration, your system will not have the chance to break things down naturally, instead they will break down into nitrates. Secondly, Buy a test kit. but there expensive.....so are fish and corals. Finally good luck;) Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 I am not sure about that. I think Nitrites are almost always broken down into Nitrates, it is considered the Nitrogen cycle. To aid in algae blooms, make sure to use RODI water and do weekly water changes of 10%. Back to the cycle, Ammonia or NH4 is broken down by Nitrosonomis bacteria into Nitrite NO2- which is broken down by Nitro-bacter bacteria into Nitrates NO3-, which is then consumed by plants or water changes. I noticed that you are doing water changes but with what type of water. Water that is not purified well is doing you no good. Try the culligan water and the front of your local wal-mart. Happy reefing Link to comment
smfyr241 Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 Bottom line is to get rid of the wheel and carbon filter...and maybe just leave some type of filter floss to collect the floating stuff......am I on or off with this?? But if I take out the wheel and the media now will it crash my tank or will I be ok?? Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I would only use filter floss once a week for like a day or two, or even less. I only use it when I perform water changes because the silt tends to become suspended. If you take off the wheel I don't think you will have a problem. Most of your beneficial bacteria has attached itself to the live rock. Just to be safe you could allow the live rock more time to cure, I don't remember if you said how long your tank has been up and running. The biowheel, I don't think will cause any problems, but sometimes algae and detritus can build up on it, if it is not maintained properly. Then you can have more algae blooms. Link to comment
smfyr241 Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 Tank has been up since november....actually I bout it from the pet store already cycled. Live sand and live rock with 2 fish. It was running there since Sept. By the way, I broke down and bought a nitrate tester yesterday....and yes it came out high it read 10ppm.......so i yanked the media cartrige.....i wil buy the filter floss today. As far as the bio wheel......i will leave it for a while and see if my levels come down.....also noticed that i have a little ammonia.....im feeding frozen brine twice a day....is this too much? The only other thing i add is Red Sea for my feather dusters......hmmmm Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Alright, first thing first, I only feed once every few days. Then I feed a pinch of brine flake. You may have a lot of excess waste in the tank. Perform 2-10% water changes immediately and since the tank has been up and running that long, I would go ahead and yank out the wheel. If you still have ammonia after this long, then that tells me that you are over feeding the tank. If your beneficial bacteria can not keep up with the amount of waste in the tank than you will have spikes in different readings. Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 did you say Red Sea, what is that. If you are talking about a liquid food, you may want to cut back on that. Most liquid foods are something that is released slowly into the water. If you use if frequently you may have algae blooms. Link to comment
smfyr241 Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 WOW.......See the LFS sux. Yes im feeding 2 times a day.....so i should feed every other day? I will yank the wheel today. I have 2 Hawiian feather dusters and a small rock (about the size of your pinky finger) with small polyps on it. Its a trial for coral. Im using Red Sea which is liquid food for inverts / filter feeders. This is fed once a day. Any other suggestions please send my way. And I thank you for all your help!! Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 1. Feeding every other day will help with algae blooms and water clarity. 2. I would cut back on the liquid food. I use it about once every week or two. I use microvert, but when I initially started using it, like you, I used it everyday and could see that something was going wrong. So I cut back and it has helped a lot. 3. When you say a small rock (about the size of your pinky finger), I hope that is not all the rock you have! If so, do not take off the wheel! 4. The thing about LFS is that they are at those tanks almost all day and are constantly cleaning and working on them. Don't forget that they are also all hooked to one main unit!!! So the water volume is huge, especially compared to a nano. 5. I think if you cut back feeding, get more live rock (if necessary) and do a 10% weekly water change. You will be on your water to a beautiful tank. Also, just a recommendation, I am not sure what type of water you use, but use RODI. This will help with algae problems down the road! Hope some of this helps! Link to comment
smfyr241 Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 Again I cant thank you enough.....I do have 25lbs of live rock. The small one was a piece i bought with some small polyps...just to see if they would be ok in my tank. I just called a FS from the next town north of here. He says to stay on top of the water changes, only run the filter floss(no carbon) and keep the wheel. He also said to maybe run a protien skimmer but it would be hard to with my eclipse hood.....i was thinking maybe a prizm skimmer. Again I thank you!! Link to comment
smfyr241 Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 oh ya....im using the premixed water from the LFS. Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Yeah, I also run premixed water from my LFS, much easier and almost just as cheap! Well, I would run carbon after a couple of weeks. Keep it in the filter for a few days then remove it. It will help remove any odors, discoloration in the water, and help to remove organics. Protein skimmers are nice but on a nano, if you keep up with water changes, I don't feel there is a need for one. Protein skimmers can remove a lot of supplements you put into the water like iodine and DT's phyto. I don't use one right now because I have not needed one. Believe me, I love this site, so your questions and comments, I enjoy. It helps work go by faster! Link to comment
Brianc_4 Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I just wanted to clarify my first reply on the nitrogen cycle. Yes nitrites are broken down into nitrates. However, the whole purpose of using live rock is that it is extremely porous and provides a low oxygen enviornment. This low oxygen enviornment allows yet another bacteria to convert nitrates eventually into nitrogen gas, which will harmlessly bubble out of your tank.The way they work is they remove oxygen atoms from nitrate (NO4), temporarily converting it back to nitrite (NO3) and then nitrogen gas and oxygen or water if the oxygen is bonded with hydrogen. This is why in my first reply I was stating that the nitrites were converted into nitrogen. Yes, they are first broken down to nitrates, but this bacterium that works in oxygen poor enviornments first converts it back to nitrite and then to nitrogen.The reason it only works in a low oxygen enviornment, is that the bacteria will simply use some of the free oxygen in an oxygen rich enviornment, rather than work hard and strip the oxygen from the NO4. So, provide these bacteria a low-oxygen zone and they will convert the nitrates in the tank to nitrogen gas. As nitrogen gas bubbles out of the system into the atmosphere, inclusion of such a low-oxygen zone reduces total nitrates and total nitrogen. Eventually the bacteria colonies reach a state of equilibrium with the bio load of the tank and (provided the natural biological filtration is adequate for that bio load), nitrogen levels in any form will be virtually undetectable. This low oxygen zone for denitrification is in your live rock as well as in a lower layer of your sandbed. How low in your sanbed depends on the size of grain. This is also the reason why people attempted to do plenum tanks, to create a larger de-nitrification zone naturally. Using artificial biological filtration such as the bio-wheel establishes a stronger colony of aeorobic nitrifying bacteria, which will not allow the anaeorobic nitrifying bacteria to be in balance with the bio-load. Macnreef, I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear in my first reply. Good luck!! Link to comment
smfyr241 Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Dude ....way too technical for me but I appreciate the info. I need someone to break it down in small terms for me. I wish I could have had all of this info before i started. It would be nice to have the LFS say all you need is this......Instead i am wondering what else i need to add to the tank! Link to comment
el pez Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 you have ALOT of fish in a 12 gallon tank. Link to comment
Brianc_4 Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Alright, the simple version...Bio-wheels break down all the crap into nitrates. Your live rock and sand bed will make even the nitrates go away. High nitrates bad.. little to no nitrates...good. J/K hope the info helped Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hey man no problem, we are all here to help..believe me, I am sure you have helped me in the past! By the way, anerobic bacteria converts it into a gas. Thanx Link to comment
mxpro32 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 i think you can either way on the bio wheel. i personally have been running a bio-wheel for a year and a half with undetectable nitrates. i also run carbon and a skimmer. when i first started i had a 5 gallon skimmerless nano with a penguin mini bio wheel with carbon. everyone here said to take the carbon out so i did and my tank turned greenish brown and everything started looking like crap so i did a water change and have ran carbon ever since. people say carbon takes out all the trace elements from our tanks but thats not true. "trace" elements are already too high in our systems to begin with and the food we feed adds them to the system anyway. as for the bio-wheel i dont think you need it. i just run mine because i always have and it has worked fine. but i would run the carbon. Link to comment
smfyr241 Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 You are the first person to say to run the carbon. I kind of agree.....I took mine out and put in a filter pad only. I think ill go back to carbon and add a prizm skimmer to help with water quality. Do you add any chemicals....if so how often. Link to comment
GilliganFx Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 i've yet to be convinced that carbon is harmful to a reef aquarium. Carbon is one of the only methods of removing phenol and some of your other basic poisonous materials, and given that your carbon is phosphate-free i have yet to see any negative effects in its use in the reef aquarium nor have i encountered any studies which prove it has any negative effects on coral growth. Link to comment
mxpro32 Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 the only chemicals i add are calcium, buffer, and iodine. Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Carbon, i think, can only be harmful if left in the tank too long. Once it is fully absorbed, it will re-release stuff back into the tank! But besides that, carbon is an excellent way to help in water quality in a reef tank! Link to comment
reefan Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I LOVE my carbon it works great in all my systems. Sorry but the queen conchs will grow way to large 12" should probably take them out. JJ Link to comment
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