| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Its been several months now pondering what size tank I would like to have for my NANO. I decided between either 20G. or 30G. and had a few questions about setup before I jump into this and YES I HAVE READ THE NANO ARTICLES but still would like some opinions. I have been keeping a 100G. all FOWLR tank for awhile now but know its totally different from NANO's so midest well do it right the first time so I dont have headaches after the finish product is unvailed. Some feedback from members with 20 or 30 gallon NANO's would be much help to me so please post away! 1. What kind of Lighting will I need? 2. What kind of Filtration is suitable and will get the job done? 3. Does anyone use DSB in their Nano's? 4. How many inches is considered DSB in Nano's? 5. What kind of methods should be used to maintain water quality besides the usual waterchanges? 6. What should I dose on regular basis to have a healthy thriving tank? I think thats it for now until I can come up with more questions that need attention to. I will include poll so YOU the people will help me decide the tank size! Okay for those answering questions and need to be more specific about the setup: I want to have: Mushrooms Xenias Polyps 1 Clownfish Snails Hermits Starfish Seahorse (MAYBE) Link to comment
WhiteRat Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Being somewhat of a beginner myself, these answers are going to be a little bit more like 'pointers' than 'answers'. 0. 20g or 30g? -- I went with a 30 myself. Remember that more water volume == more buffer in case of a problem. It also gives you more room to make the tank what you want of it without being constrained by measurements of volume/length/depth. 1. Best lighting you can afford. From reading others' posts here and reading tons of books on minireefs, I have decided that it is generally better to have more wattage of lighting than less (yes, I know this isn't the best way to measure things, but try finding the 'new way' by searching under 'lighting' and 'watts' and you'll be here all year...) and to get true actinics and 10K bulbs for the maximum flexibility. If there is one place NOT to scrimp and pennypinch, it is lights. 2. Some people have run small nanos with no skimmers or filters at all and had great success. If I am sick or unable to get to my tank (it is at my office), on vacation or can't find the time for a few days, I don't want it getting sick for lack of a water change, therefore I chose to run a HOB skimmer/filter (CPR BakPak) on my 30g and am very happy with it. Some people take out the filter media and just use it for water movement. I left the filter media in as an additional buffer in case of troubles. 3. DSB has the same depth in nanos as anywhere else, it's a specific sand depth range regardless of your tank volume. Note that in a 10g tank, a 4+" deep sandbed is gonna take up a lot more perceived tank volume than in a 20g or 30g. 'Sand Bed Secrets' is a very helpful book but most of the info in it has been duplicated on the net elsewhere. Might buy a copy anyway, it's cheap and you're supporting the people who support the hobby and do the research so you don't have to use your own tank to make silly mistakes. 4. See above. Depending on who you talk to, DSBs start around 4" and go to 8" in depth. I don't run a DSB, and depending on what my benthics have been doing my SB ranges from 1" to 2.5" or so in depth in different places through the tank. 5. There's a group of folks who happily use various chemicals and a group of folks who try to use natural systems. A healthy, LS bed, even a shallower one, with good healthy LR will help maintain water quality. So will a filter (though a filter will prevent you 'zeroing' nitrite and nitrate, and some people brag about zeroing these chemicals...YMMV depending on what test kit you use and how honest you are with the results. Under no circumstances will there be 'No' NO2 or NO3 in your tank, only less or more measurable concentrations, the filter's bacteria live on the above chemicals so there obviously must be some in the system...However, d'oh, so do the bacteria in the LSB which are doing the same kind of work, so I tend to pay less attention to 'zeroing' and more to 'stay low and healthy'). Planting some macroalgae in your tank will also provide a good way to remove nitrate and prevent major algal blooms. A little caulerpa or ulva or halimeda goes a long way and looks pretty, too. As for chemical additives, I'm not the best person to ask about those but I have heard of successes with Hagen 'cycle' nitrobacter solution and Bio-Sea 'Buffer +dKH generator'. Note that the former is encouraging bacteria cultures and the latter is chemically controlling water hardness, they do two different jobs and aren't interchangeable. I mostly just do frequent water changes. I haven't even started kalk dosing because my water has a bunch of calcium in it to begin with and I use Marine Environment salt which adds even more. 6. See above. If your water source and your salt mix are good, you shouldn't, IMHO, need to add extra chemicals, but if you have low Ca, or other problems, and can't come up with a non-artificial solution to them, there's a wide range of chemistry set solutions to add. I use salt mix to control pH and add water conditioners, etc., that Marine Environment salt already has in it. I use water changes and trimming macro algae to remove NO2 and NO3 and high ammonia levels during initial tank cycle. To date my tank's water quality hasn't needed anything else. Ratty 30g microreef-in-progress pics at http://www.bastet.org/gallery/whiterat Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 Hey Whiterat, thanks for the helpful information. I was looking through your pictures and really like the setup and had a question about the 30G. tank. Do they all come tall like that or there is a long version too and what are the measurements? I'd like something like that... I don't like the traditional long tanks anymore after I've seen tall tanks that "IMO" look better then longs in the aquascaping. Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 DO NOT GO WITH A 30g. They are very hard to light. I would recommend a 20, that is what I have. Most bulbs are either 24" or 36" not 30" so it is very hard to light it adequately with using metal halides. If you go with a 20 you can use two 55W pc one 03 one 67K or 4-55W pc two 03 one 67K and one 88K. 20g will give you a lot more choices!! Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 A hob filter is more than enough, with 2-power heads for added circulation. Also, don't forget the larger the tank, the more expensive. If you stick with a 20H, I think you will be much happier in the long run. Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 Originally posted by MacnReef DO NOT GO WITH A 30g. They are very hard to light. I would recommend a 20, that is what I have. I was going to used MH lighting for this tank so either 20H or 30T will do for me but thanks for your opinion on it. I was thinking the 30T because of the True Percula Clownfish I have in my FOWLR right now. I asked around and they said minimum size would be best in a 30 gallon but have seen people put it into even smaller tanks then 10 gallons. I just want whats best for the FISH's I would like to keep in the NANO. Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 More questions: I would like to have a day & night effect on my tank. Since both 20 & 30 gallon tanks are 12"'s wide is it possible to put 1 175W. MH and 2 URI Super Actinic R Bulbs on the tank? Anyone done this before or have it done? I would like to see some pictures of it if you have something similiar to this.. This setup wouldnt work if I had a Parabolic Reflector on it so I was thinking a regular long flat one would work with this setup right? Thanks in advance for any information you have to share with me. Link to comment
WhiteRat Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Glad you liked the pics ReefNewbie. I need to take some more...Every day I find something new in my tank. I have a 30T which is 2'wide, 2'high and 1'deep. I am sure they make 30Ls but I haven't looked. I like the tall tank, but it requires more lighting, as someone mentioned. Well, they said 'don't use a 30g' or some such but they were right about the lighting part of it. I am using a PSL hood with a 175W 10K MH and two 50/50 10K/True actinic 55W fluorescents. I don't know about the other light you were speaking of but I would hazard a guess that unless it is HUGE you would be able to get it in. I easily have room for another MH or another double-tube fluorescent, maybe both. Instead I am thinking about setting up some red 'night light' floods to shine down into the tank so I can see all the nightfeeders while they think it's dark. I am also pondering swapping out my MH for a 20K MH to get more 'blue' into the tank as it looks rather 'yellow' now with the MH on. Alternatively I might take out one of my 50/50s and get a full actinic. Or maybe I should add another MH and make that one 20K. Decisions, decisions, decisions, decisions... Oh, yeah. I have the timer set for 14 hours of fluorescents and 10 hours of MH. Be well. Ratty Ratty's Reef Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I should have explained my self better, if I remember correctly, the 29 and 30 have a center brace. Which means that if you run one metal halide you will have a large shadow in the center. You would probably have to run two. Then if you run just pc, that would not be bad but you can fit enough pc to grow clams and sps. Plus you will have to stagger the bulbs. Ofcourse, this is just my opinion zzz Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 Ah, I see now MacnReef... Hmm.., I will have to check that out when purchasing the tank. Thanks for the heads up! Link to comment
WhiteRat Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 My 30 doesn't have a central brace. It's an All-Glass-Aquarium (evidently a brand name) 30H and its got no brace a-tall... So I imagine if you hunt around you can find one without a brace. Probably acrylic tanks will need a brace where glass won't (glass flexes less) Ratty Ratty's Reef Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Just picked it up today. It's really well made since the Plastic Trims are not 4 seperate pieces on this one but 1 whole piece and so I dont have to worry about bowing on this tank. Anyways, it doesnt have a center brace either. I checked a few stores around here and non had a center brace! I got it for 33.00 out the door! Good buy considering almost 1.00 a gallon. I will keep everyone updated on whats going on with the tank. Another thing I am stoked about is that my old Precision Marine H.O.T-1 Skimmer fits this one no problems at all so I think I will be using it for the 30! Link to comment
Krista Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 One quick question.....if you plan on stocking only xenia, mushrooms and polyps, then why go MH? Unless you are planning on adding sps later in the future, then just forget my question. But if you aren't planning on sps, then pc are more economical to purchase and run much cooler. With MH you must run a fan under the canopy to keep the water temp from getting too hot. And if you were thinking about a seahorse, they are best left in their own tanks. They don't like a lot of current that a reef tank has, and they are difficult to feed from what I have been told. Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Yes, I will be keeping some light loving Corals down the line and Clams so thats the reason for MH. As for the Seahorses I was only thinking of one and in the Refugium but I think even the Refugium might be to small but who knows till I get everything up and running. Great advice and comments keep 'em coming guys & gals! Link to comment
WhiteRat Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Congrats on the new aquarium! I personally think if it's a tall aquarium you're wise to run MH even with softies, but that's just me. I specifically have set my aquarium up so it has a) areas of intense light areas of diverging shade c) areas of high current d) areas of low current So I can deal with species that require different environments and have them 'in the picture' next to other species that are in their own little invisible biomes. This took a little rock-rearranging, but I guess everyone goes through that. Looking forward to hearing how it goes! Ratty Ratty's Reef Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I just seen a 29 that had a center brace and figured that they were prolly the same as the 30. Oh, well, just trying to prevent a problem down the road...Sorry for the confusion. Thanx guys Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 Just finished spray painting the back of my tank black. Also started on the DIY stand but in it's early stages. Hope to show finish product by the end of the week or so. I made the stand 24" tall so I can have a shelf compartment and put my 10 gallon under there as a fuge and almost went off the mark, but I can BARELY squeeze it in thank god! Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Give me the materials used to make that. Also, how did you attach the inside members to the outside walls? Link to comment
cbevel Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Hi all. Just a quick question. I just read throught this posting and I am about to dive back into the saltwater relm. I haven't had a tank in a few years, but this time I want to go with a smaller more interesting tank. I am guessing Nano is the way to go. I noticed the spray painting on thge back of the tank; is that for looks mainly or does it serve another pupose? Ity looks good either way. I am also probably going to get a 30G. What are your thoughts on a bow front? Thanks for any comments! CB Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I painted the back of mine because when you have a paper backing, sometimes saltwater gets inbetween the paper and the glass, then you get these lines of salt. Besides that, its just easier to maintain. I love little bowfronts. I wish I had one! Petsmart had this 28g bowfront that I wanted, but it was not drilled and the stand did not give any room for filters, it was a bunch of drawers. Personally, I may set-up a alife7 but I think my wife would kill me, if I did. She is getting so sick of tanks, it is not even funny. Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 Materials: 2'x4' BC 1/2" BC Plywood 5.97 HD 96"x2"x2" Square Posts (FRAME) 96"x1"x2" (SHELF POST) 1" Finished Nails (AKA: Headless Nails) 3" Wood Screws (SECURE FRAME TOGETHER) 96" 3/4" End Moldings 96" 3/4" Flat Moldings Hammer Tiny Hand Saw Angle Drill Black Spray Paint White Primer Hard to explain everything until I finish the stand and edit some pictures. Once done I will post up and explain thoroughly. All these parts will help you put together what you see in those pictures. I built the stand for two tanks. One 30 gallon on top and a 10 gallon Refugium/Coral frag tank for the bottom and shelf above it so I can keep my misc Reef stuff. Its right now near completion except for paint. Could someone suggest a pay free site that can hold images? I would like to just have images on the site and people just go there to take a look at it. Thanks! Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Just to update everyone. I am inching my way to the finish line! Next thing to do is cut an opening on the bottom of the front about 20"x12" to have an observation window for the Refuge that will be placed there. This way I can see whats going on inside and on top! Instead of Corner Moldings I decided to go with 1" Poplar wood for the moldings you see in gray. The use of Corner moldings will be on the Observation window. The front whole piece is removable. I used Velcro to have it hold onto the frame which was a cinch to do! This was so I can access the inside very easily by removing the whole front instead of having doors which are only so big. Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Nice stand, what did you finish it with? Link to comment
| ReEFnEwB1E | Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 Originally posted by MacnReef Nice stand, what did you finish it with? Believe it or not Black glossy spray paint! I wanted a smoother look then household paint so I opted for this. The moldings were painted with regular household paint though... but I will probably buy some gloss and spray over it. O and my tank is a 25 gallon tall not 30 by the measurements and a few nice reefers on this board have told me. Link to comment
MacnReef Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 How is the stand holding up with 2x2's? Someone told me that 2x2 would not hold the weight of a 20H! Link to comment
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