working backwards

[drdrew]

ok, i have a really nice 24 inch light fixture with fan that houses 3X55W PC (2 daylight and one actinic). i am taking this fixture from an existing 54 corner in order to upgrade that tank to MH...but i thought i MUST use this fixture to set up a nano in my office...

1) what size tank is 24 inches across?

2) i want to keep clams...should i go for a shallow tank to maximize intensity? which tank is the most shallow at 24 inches (besides custom)

3) do you nano peoples run DSB at 4+ inches like on big tanks, or is there some reason to use less?

4) would the clams appreciate 3 daylight bulbs more than the current configuration, or do they benefit from actinics as corals do?

any other parting thoughts?

 

thanks

-drdrew

[sauer]

1.

tanks 24" wide - 15 regular, 20

tanks 30" wide - 20 long, 25, 29, 30 reg, 30 breeder, 37 gallon

 

I'd go with either a 20 or 29 because they are pretty easy to find and good sizes.

 

2.

the 15 gal is 12" high, and 20 is 16".

I dont know a lot about keeping clams, but a shallower tank would allow more light intensity. I think it boils down to what clams you want to keep and whether you want to sink money into metal halides.

 

3.

According to Ron Shmuk, er Shimek, DSB's really arent effective under 55gal (or around that). You can take that for what its worth, but the general consensus on this site is that DSB is a waste of space. However, in your case, you could get the 20gal and fill up with 4-5" of sand, leaving about 10-12" in tank since you will need a lot of light.

 

4.

I don't know

try doing a search on clams+lighting

 

Good luck

[chvynva916]

I've read Shimek's DSB article and I didn't know he felt that way about DSBs for smaller tanks. Why does he say that? Where did he write that? I am planning on a kind of DSB 3-4" for my 10g and my 10g fuge. Not that the sand was terribly expensive, but why wouldn't this work?

[sauer]

He has posted it on Reef Central. That doesn't mean it is true though . . .

[Satchmo]

Originally posted by chvynva916

why wouldn't this work?

 

In order for a DSB to function properly, you need a good deal of life in it to keep it stirred enough to prevent oxygen debt. The theory is that in a tank with this small of a footprint, it's exceedingly difficult to keep this fauna thriving.

[Trag]

The main purpose of a DSB is to create a place for Denitrifying bacteria to grow

 

As Satch mentioned, the foot print of a nano isnt big enough (According to Doc Ron) for this bacteria to colonize reliabley over long periods of time...(it could work for months, and crash one day)

I have ready several posts on RC message board, where Doc Ron clearly said this. Do a search their

 

I learned on these boards, if you have good quality live rock (porous), that is all you need to grow the denitrifying bacteria, you will need to handle the bio load for your tank

 

Live Rock + Water Changes= 0> Nitrate

 

I usually do 1 1/2" or less sand bed in small tanks, and wouldnt go over 2"

 

hth

[~_~]

Dr Ron is kinda like a magic 8ball.

He answered someones question about DSB's & surface area, and this is what he had to say

 

"My guess is that a tank would need dimensions on the order of about 150 square inches to be useful as nutrient recycler. This depends on the nutrient load of the tank as well as upon the infauna, etc. So.. I would guess something on the order of a 15 gallon tank would be about smallest. "

 

:woot:

[chvynva916]

Between my live rock and wc I've never had nitrate problems in my tank. Plus I'll have a macro fuge for nitrate reduction. I guess I was hoping for a DSB just to more effectively reproduce the parts of a natural reef (yes I know reefs aren't located exactly on sand beds.)

[sjpresley]

WOW, I've never seen a magic 8 ball say that!

 

Anyone that has read Dr. Shimeks board for any length of time wouldn't call him a Shmuck, unless that person were a complete ass.

 

You have to understand that Dr. Shimek isn't the usual fly-by-night wives-tale spouting salt water author. His opinions are dynamic (for those illiterates out there that means ever changing) based on a lot of actual testing.

 

I have found Ron both knowledgeable and helpful. In a refreshing change from many "experts", if he doesn't know he simply says so. Which is much better than a random guess.

[sauer]

hahaha, I must be a 'complete ass'

[WhiteRat]

This whole hobby is too new in some ways for anybody to be authoritative about any damn thing except 'here is what has happened in my own tanks so far'. YMMV in an 'identical' tank with the same fauna/flora.

 

This isn't tool&die work, where you can guarantee that if you shave that 'X' more thousandths off, it will be more efficient every single time.

 

Based on common experiences we can make a lot of fairly valid assumptions that if we do A, B, and C in a D-sized tank we'll probably be okay. But any day it might crash. Or we might have just different enough water quality from everyone else to screw with one species.

 

I really appreciate Doctor Ron and others like him who are trying to approach this from a marine biology standpoint and use the scientific method, but I think that with amateur aquarists there are just too many variables, ranging from how diligent we are about testing/checking our tanks (As a tiny example, when you're filling test tubes with tank water, do you fill until the top of the meniscus touches the line, or the bottom, or 'somewhere between'? Obviously this affects test results. Not hugely, but it -does- affect them!) to the health and source of our inverts.

 

I like to read everyone's opinions and researches that I can get my hands on, then make decisions based on what I get out of it all...Some things agree with each other, some disagree and I end up having to make a choice.

 

Even the viewpoints and experiences of people who have killed off their tanks are useful, after all. Mocking someone because their opinion changes seems kind of wrong. Frankly, I worry more about people whose opinions don't change over time as new facts come to their attention. At least to me, the folks who ignore the facts and stand by their opinions regardless are far more mockworthy.

 

Me, I'm an amateur. I had one marine bio class in high school, 'helped' my dad raise salt water as a kid, and I've got one fairly young reef tank that I have yet to kill. That's the extent of my credentials.

 

Ratty

Ratty's Reef

[Satchmo]

Originally posted by WhiteRat

That's the extent of my credentials.

 

I dunno, you sound like you've got a better understanding of the hobby, and a greater degree of some much-needed humility than many of the "experts".

[WhiteRat]

I couldn't afford to do a reef for two years. I've spent two years reading books and stuff (many of which disagreed with each other, it is funny to see the 'trends' where each year all the books published that year say 'X' and next year they all say 'Y'...) and looking at other people's tanks on the internet and at LFSs (my fave LFS used to have a BIG cubic 300g out front with all the wavemakers/powerheads in a vertical tree up the middle of the tank and the rock stacked around it to hide it, was supercool).

 

I've only had my OWN reef tank for, uhm...Five weeks.

 

I love how it is going, though. Some folks have just about clawed my head off about how big my cleanup crew is, but I've got macroalgae for'em to eat when the normal stuff runs out...

 

Oh yeah, and I even got two emails that I shouldn't be on NR with it because '30 gallons isn't a nano.'

 

Pshaw.

 

Ratty

Ratty's Reef

[Satchmo]

Originally posted by WhiteRat

Oh yeah, and I even got two emails that I shouldn't be on NR with it because '30 gallons isn't a nano.'  

 

They're absolutely right. Go away. :

 

Good for you man. That's pretty much what I did. Sponged-up all the knowlege I could for a long time before I worked up the berries to actually try it. It's too bad more people don't start like this. If you have a good understanding of the nuts & bolts behind the whole thing before you begin, it's much easier on you, your bank account, and most importantly, the little guys in your tank.