glazer Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 I've been looking and shopping around at/for calcium reactors recently... spendy buggers eh? Trying to find something a little more appropriate for nano's. AquaMedic makes a pretty small one as well as Intermarin, pricing isn't awful either, well the reactor I mean... still have the tank and guages to contend with. In my searches I came across this.... with this little tidbit of info.... Compact in design this highly efficient calcium reactor completely eliminates the need to add two-part buffer/calcium chemicals to reef tanks. It can be mounted in sump or externally. Calcium reactor includes carbonate media, hanging brackets, and silicone connection tubing.Suitable for tanks up to 450 gallons, reccomended flow rate is 13gph. Anybody got any more info or even use one for that matter? I can't even find anything about it on AZOO's site. If I do decide to strike out on my own... I've been reading the DIY pages on various boards and contemplating the Ca reactor made from a water purifier contraption.... looks relatively simple. Othewise I don't know if I'm up to chasing down all the parts and then attempting something and not sure it's going to work... especially since the reactors I mentioned are all under or around the $100 mark. If anybody would like to share pics and info on anything they've done I'd love to see it... thanks boys and girls Link to comment
wetworx101 Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Ca Reactors are a total DIY. The only technical mastery is with the CO2 feed metering if you go that route. (BTW, for my own ref:For a nano...wouldn't a top off with Kalkwasser be enough?) Link to comment
Twins Guy Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 i've been eyeing that azoo thing too g...saw it in the aquatic-eco catalog. they have a "bio-denitrator" built in what appears to be the same shell. nowhere do they mention CO2, so it seems like a cheap gimmick to me that's destined not to help much. i'd love to hear more about this thing if anyone knows more. i'd be curious to see how they get calcium carbonate to dissolve without lowering the pH or how they lower pH without CO2. anyways if i had to pick up a calcium reactor which i've been thinking about quite alot i'd prolly get a myreef creation. before dave flames me, and reiterates that you get what you pay for, let me just say that i've done a fair amount of research and have it from reliable sources that this is a quality product. Andy is the owner/operator's name and Lunchbucket is one of his biggest advocates. Sounds like a good young business to support. It'll run a lil more than the azoo but he has downsized models for nanos. and good deals on regulators w/ solenoids, recirculation pumps and CO2 tubing-i believe you still have to buy a CO2 tank from your local gas or welding supply company. anyways-they're cute and prolly could handle 20 nanos daisy chained but we all plan on more tanks right-so they give you that flexibilty. check out his site...feedback? http://www.myreefcreations.com/reactors.html Link to comment
Fant Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 www.myreefcreations.com is now offering a nano sized reactor. Theres a single chamber model 4.5" IDx12"high and one with an additional 3.5" chamber. Link to comment
technoshaman Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Hmm for some reason that Azoo thing looks sketchy. I looked at the myreef one, they look decent but if you still have to buy the tank and regulator too that's right about at 300 bucks again. Let us know how it works if you try it. Link to comment
glazer Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 Thanks TG and fant for the links... one I missed. Yep, back up to 300 bucks *sigh* I dunno though, it looks like a nice quality piece of equipment. Hmmm, I have a buddy that builds hi-performance bikes... he can prolly get me a really good deal for one of those stainless bottles they use to inject Nitro and the regulators too... well they may not end up being as cheap but damn they would look sexy! I'm wondering if the AZOO thing is more of a Kalk reactor? But then you wouldn't be running 13gph through it and certainly not tank water. I'd kill to get a manual and sizes on it. And wet, I dunno I don't like the idea of throwing or topping off that much Kalk at once, least not on nano's. I would much prefer to drip it and that to me that is a big pain in the ass. Link to comment
Fant Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 AFter looking at that AZOO thing more closely I would like to warn everyone not to use it. Most reactors use co2 to get the pH inside the reactor down to 6.8ish or so. The AZOO is not a recirculating reactor. Water passes through once and goes right back to the tank. That basically means youd be pumping 13 gallons per hour of acidic water through your reef. With our small tanks that would create havoc with the pH. Recirculating reactors with a secondary passive chamber would be a much more effective reactor for a nano. WIth those type of reactor designs your only trickling acidic water into the reef, and the use of a second chamber will help raise the pH of the effluent. It would also be a good idea, especially for nano reefers to run the effluent into a densely planted refugium. The macros of the refugium would suck down any remaining Co2. Hell it might even boost the effeciency of using macro's in a nano as nutrient export. Link to comment
glazer Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 The guy selling the AZOO thingie (it's on Ebay) l just found out lives here in Chicagoland...I actually bought a couple of heaters off of him. I'm going to see if I can examine one of these things firsthand and look the manual over for it.... if nothing else to just satisfy my curosity. Oh and fant... actually fresh Kalk has a pH of like 11 or 12? (think that's right) it's high anyway... so in fact not an acid but a very strong base. Flowing kalk into your tank can raise the pH very rapidly. Arrrgh.... my head is starting to hurt...lol Maybe I'll just do more water changes! hehe Link to comment
Fant Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Im confused now too.. i thought that azoo thing was a CALCIUM reactor.. not a KALK reactor or a nilsen reactor. YEah if it has kalkwasser inside of it then it will be a high pH its just the same as using kalkwasser everynight but automated. What i was saying is with a calcium reactor that uses Co2.. the effluent coming out of those reactors is somewhere around 6.5-6.8 Thats the whole purpose of using CO2. Co2 in water creates carbonic acid. Thats what allows the calcium media to dissolve. Most reactors these days are recirculating (such as myreef). Meaning the majority of the water is just pumped around and around through the media. Then with the use of a feed line plus needle valve (you dont want the needle valve for effluent control on the actual effluent line will clog with gunk) and an an additional overflow (effluent) line. A calcium + carbonate rich liquid is trickled back into the main system. If that azoo thing is a kalkwasser reactor (more commonly called a Nilsen reactor) then IMO is definately not even worth trying. Link to comment
Twins Guy Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 my two cents-fant and g-you're both right on and fant the effluent to refugium idea is brilliant. i honestly don't think this thing is gonna be that complex. if it does use CO2 injection which i seriously doubt, then the second of the two chambers would have to be passive much like the second chamber on a recirculating reactor. now i'm not saying that it would work well enough (at 13gph) to eliminate all excess CO2 but it would help enough that your effluent wouldn't be ridiculously acidic-relative to tank levels. i suppose its possible that one of the cylindrical chambers is a co2 cylinder or yeast based reactor?-in which case then i'm wrong about the second chamber being passive. if i had to guess they just fill the thing with media-aka expensive version of course aragonite sand and pump water through it. my guess is that it won't even work as well for dissolving CaCO3 as a decent sand bed. lets go glazer (yer still retired right?-old-timer, should have plenty of time)-show us the light, pleaze! EDIT-no way its a nilsen or kalkwasser reactor! Link to comment
Fant Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 I just cant figgure out how that azoo thing works. Your right lookin at the pic i dont see any place for Co2 injection. But it wouldnt be the first time an aquarium product needed modification as soon as you buy it. If the damn thing is a yeast based reactor then thats just stupid, i know it would cut the cost considerably. But IMO the whole purpose of a reactor is so lazy reefers such as myself can enjoy our reefs. Messing with yeast stuff is just as bad as dosing chemicals. I know how the more traditional style reactors work. And I am in the process of building a nano sized reactor. They will be from 3 1/4" ID tubing im gonna work out some chemistry and math and see if i can manage to keep the heigth of the reactor under 12". I honestly dont think the heigth will be too much of a concern for nano reefers. Im actually torn between building a dual chamber or a single chamber. The idea of using the co2 rich effluent to increase macro algae growth and nutrient export. Maybe its time for a few experiments on Co2 consumption of common aquarium macro algae's.. Link to comment
glazer Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 Well as I said, the guy selling these is near me and I sent him an email with some questions... bear in mind Albert's a cool dude but only keeps freshwater. Soooo Albert says...... Hi Steve, That was me, you picked up the heaters from my place in Lake Forest. Nice talking to you again. I will be honest with you, I'm not a reef person so my knowledge is limited to what I can get from the item instructions. And here it is: 1. Install the equipment according to illustration, you may hang this setup along the edge of the tank vertically, or place it horizontally at the bottom of the tank. 2. To introduce clean filtered water connect the air inlet of powerhead with the water inlet of CO2 Reactor by silicone tube or connect the silicone tube to the spare inlet of the U shaped tube. 3. To keep calcium value between 400-450mg/l you may regulate the water flow by adjusting the valve. 4. The standard CO2 supply is that which maintain KH between 9~11 dKH. 5. For the tank under 200L (55gal) CO2 supply is not necessary, just keep the water circulating. This is it. There is some installation illustrations on the box as well. All brackets, fittings and connectors are included with the unit. Recommended flow on this unit is low (13gph) and no extra pump is required. You can just hook it up to your powerhead according to the instructions. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any other questions. I will try to contact manufacturer's rep tomorrow to get some more info on this unit. I'll talk to you soon, Albert Hmmmm, so it hooks up to the venturi inlet of a powerhead, well that explains the low flow nature of it...... and only guessing that since "tanks under 55 gal CO2 supply is not needed" that you could hook up a tank to it. Well I thanked Albert for helping me out and still welcomed any info from the AZOO dude.... By the way, did I mention that MyReef reactor looks really sweet! Man, I am indeed getting the DIY itch to go and make me one of these things... been looking at lots of pics and info on them. I think the wife needs more down time though between projects, she just got her kitchen table back. Link to comment
TNreefguy Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 To start i have a nitrate reactor at home. one day i was goofing around and tested the ph of the outlet fliud and it was about 6.5. that is how the reactor works. the anarobic bacteria lowere the ph of the in flow of water. in turn the low ph dissolves the media in the reactor. with a small tank like a 55 the ca needs never exceed the amount of effluent the the bacteria can produce so no need in a co2 bottle. Man some days i got it going on Link to comment
ajroahkni Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 DIY it Master Glazer. Can just see it now: new thread: "Few weeks, so Calc Reactor is born..." 25,000 hits, 300 posts. Link to comment
glazer Posted January 19, 2003 Author Share Posted January 19, 2003 Wow, TNreef... that makes too much sense, it also sound rather ingenious as well... in theory I mean. I have NO experience in nitrate reducers/reactors at all so had no idea the effluent is that low in pH, really it is? If that's how the AZOO thing is set up that is pretty cool.... there has to be a medium involved for the nitrate reactor section though yes? My understanding is there needs to be a carbon source... i.e. "sugar/glucose" for them to function properly. It does indeed sound like a very interesting setup. I would really love to see test reading from the effluent from this thing, Ca/alk, pH. I may have to see if I can um, borrow? one from ol' Albert there for testing and review purposes... hell maybe I'll ask the AZOO rep to shoot me one... say I'll tout it from the mountains if it's a keeper!...lol DIY it Master Glazer. Can just see it now: new thread: "Few weeks, so Calc Reactor is born..." 25,000 hits, 300 posts. .... dunno if I WANT another post like that!,hehehe Maybe if I do it I'll just keep it under my hat. I do feel the itch coming on though. If I do decide to give it shot I'd like to make it something really small though, like a reactor chamber the size of a Coke can and see if I can make it actually work! *Wow, look a that... pulls out raquetball cannister, scratching head...pondering... gotta go! :woot: * Link to comment
TNreefguy Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 my nitrate reactor came with an amiricle 10 gallon sump. as to the instruction on the reactor is you add the media(of wich i do not know what it is) hood up a pump to it and let it flow for about a day. After that, shut it of and seal it up for about three weeks. and whola. you start it backup at about 40 drops per min. i do not remember anything about feeding the reactor. and the nitrates on my 55 are nill. Link to comment
HuBu Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 a CO2 regulator can bo found on ebay for as cheap as $20. CO2 tank filled can be bought at your local fire rescue department for around $20-40. glazer, i m also thinking of building a calc reactor. i have been looking at many DIY sites and most of them seem confusing due to all the fitting and PVCs required. yet i m looking for a double chamber one. still havent found an easy to understand one yet. Link to comment
glazer Posted January 25, 2003 Author Share Posted January 25, 2003 Hey Hubu, I have prolly looked at all the sites you have plus some. I have indeed decided to just DIY one... by the time it's all said and done prolly be a coin toss as to whether or not just buying one would have been cheaper/less stressful...lol Well dropping close to 600 bucks for some plastic and and an air tank is kinda stressful to me anyway,hehe. This guy's reactor , both the explanation of how it works and the simplicity of the design has me intrigued and I do believe it is the route I am going to go. I won't use a water filter cannister as he did... that would be TOO simple. I'm going to make the actual reactor myself. My CO2 tank is either going to be one of the small bottles used for nitrous injection or a paintball gun. I can get regulators from a friend pretty cheaply although not sure of the precision of the needle valve assembly... found some links for needle valves like those used on model airplanes,hehe. Sooooo, the search begins, the scrounging/sourcing for parts.... I haven't told the wife yet,hahaha. Link to comment
wetworx101 Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 i think i know, but it has been a while since i looked closely: what is the major diff between single pass and double pass (or triple?). What does it do that a single pass wont? Link to comment
glazer Posted January 25, 2003 Author Share Posted January 25, 2003 wet, Single pass means just that.... your water/CO2 mixture enters the reactor at the top and exits the bottom of the chamber. In theory your CO2 should be "all used up". Most reactors run by a recirculating method.... there is a pump constantly moving the water throughout the chamber. You pump your tank water into it (mixed with CO2) and draw off the reactor to feed back into your tank/system. If you have dual chamber reactor your return water (to the tank) is pulled from the second chamber. My understanding is that the second chamber is pretty much funtioning the same way a single-pass reactor is... trying to use up as much of the CO2 as possible and giving you an effluent with a higher pH. Hope that made sense... Link to comment
LEEWINK Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 ok, i was looking at this too in england, basically what it seems the above item is or could be is this :- take one cannister and fill with sulphour* beads or balls, then take a second and fill with reactor media - just a thought, try a.r.m. media as it adds trace elements too. run this, and water in the first chamber will be de-nitrificated by the sulphour* beads, same as sulphour denitrators you buy complete. The effects of sulphour adjusts p.h. dramatically, LIKE CO2 DOES. It runs to the second chamber and the effluent then reacts with the calcium reactor media. after cannister calcium enriched water runs about 400+. Ive read on this system here for diy'ers, but havent tried, possibly yet anyway !! If i decide to, i will run with the help of a peristaltic pump and i.k.s. system. p.h. probes in both cannisters, the reactor media cannisters probe will trigger the peristaltic once desired p.h. is reached. cheers, lee (uk) :) :) Link to comment
wetworx101 Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~cap/raid/careactors/waterfilter/why_single_pass.html Link to comment
LEEWINK Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 your above thread describes, well, the use of calcium reactors with the use of co2. My above thread or the opening one looks like a reactor minus co2. sulphour lowers ph = same as co2. reactor media enhances ph = calcium enriched water. i cant say the overall reliability of these units, as ive not done, but i'm always experimenting, so maybe soon. cheers, lee :) :) Link to comment
frankrip Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 glazer I to am intrigued by the 15-minute Calcium Reactor. About the bubble counter...is this available for purchase somewhere or is this also a DIY? Link to comment
Krux Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 since it comes withn a couple packets, one labeled activator, it is my assumption that tha azoo is a natural co2 calc reactor... in other words, a yeast driven reactor. these have not been popular for a while, but if you look at some older books and web sites, you will find information on them. mystery packet a - yeast mystery packet b - sugar boom - CO2 Link to comment
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