Cami Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Hi all, First I want to say that I'm new to the message board and a nano newbe. I have considerable exp. with FW, I keep discus. What follows is the biggest aquatic blunder of my life. In early Dec, my wife and I realized that there was a LFS in town that we had never been in. While we are loyal to the one we get our FW stuff, fish, help from, we do stray at times. On the counter was a beautiful 7 gal bow set up as a nano, completely cycled with LR, LS, and livestock. It was overstocked, but I'll get back to that. "How much?" my wife asks. "Oh, we don't know how to take care of a SW tank," I say. "Sure you do," says the evil LFS salesman, aka satan's fishy helper. "No, we really don't." I protest. "There's nothing to know. Just bring in a water sample once a week and get a gallon of SW for your water change and top it off with FW when needed and that's it." "Come-on, it will be your birthday/Christmas present," my lovely wife says. "It is gorgous," I say. Bad move, should have kept my mouth shut. "We'll take it," My wife says. We take it home and for 3 weeks all is well. The 3 snails, 1 crab, 2 scarlet shrimp, 4 different rocks covered with coral, 4 damsels, 1 clown fish, and 1 anenome were doing fine. Did I say that there was an anenome in a take sold to a beginner? Evil LFS man. I changed out the light with a 28 watt PC retofit 10000K/actnec 03 and proceeded to read this forum. Couldn't post a question until yesterday. I was locked out even though I joined the day we got the nano. On the fourth weekend I bring in my water to sample and the Evil LFS man says "Your PH is dangerously low, add some marine buffer, follow the directions, here's your gallon of water. next customer." And the dumb hobbiest does what he is told. Oh, yeah, I'm the dumb hobbiest. I read the direstions. 1 teaspoon per 10 gal. I have a 7 gal. The LR must displace 3 or 4 gal, so I'll try 1/4 teaspoon. Half an hour later, everything but the fish is dead. I go back to the LFS and tell the evil man what happened. He says, and this is a direct qoute. "That was an expensive education, too bad." I repeated to him that I just did what he told me and he said "Things happen, you should get SW test kits." That was the only truthful thing he ever said. That was 3 weeks ago and the tank is recovering. I have the kits and make my own salt water. I read and reread the posts on this board everyday. Last week I added 1 hermit crab, and after he did well for a week I added 4 snails today. I'm trying to rebuild my clean up crew slowly. I have tested everyday for 2 weeks now and my PH is always at 7.9 to 8.0, sal was 1.018 and I raised it over 2 weeks to 1.023, amonnia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0. The last three have never varied over the 2 weeks. The low PH concerns me, though I'm just going to leave it be until I get a handle on the rest. Since the crash the tank has had a diatom outbreak, but it seems to be over now. I'm bound and determined to make this nano a success and am very greatful the Nano-Reef.com exists. Thankyou guys for the help you didn't even know you were giving. Without the information I read here the nano would be a very expensive guppy tank right now. Thanks again. Cami in Sarasota, Fl Link to comment
eha1322 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 are you plaing on writing a book after this thread? Link to comment
Chamkeeper Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 4 dams would be great for cylcng a 29g Tank, W/O live rock. Link to comment
Rocket_155 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Maybe you should be blaming your wife for buying for you. *evil laugh*. Well i hope that it all works out of you in the end. Link to comment
ross76053 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Cami, Welcome to the board. What a freakin' lousy experience. Unfortunately, I think many LFSs lead new customers to believe keeping a reef tank is simple. It's not - period. Is it easier than it used to be? Sure. But chances are you're still gonna have to do [something] to it every day, whether it's topping off, testing water, removing algae (I'm a professional), etc. Stick with it, you'll be glad you did. And you're doing the right thing by reading all you can. You can never know it all, and I learn something just about every day - some by reading, and some by doing. Keep us posted.... Ross Link to comment
Keng Yew, Leong Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 My LFS was different,they told me not to reef cause it will be hard if the tank is small n save my $ for other stuff. Link to comment
TiGs Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 One of my LFS also told me that keeping a nano is hard to keep and recommended that i but a 55g + tank from them instead. Hmmm, trying to make a bigger sale at the sametime and telling the truth?Most likely. The guy i dealed with seemed like a sleezy sales man. Than I went to another LFS and they told me that nano tanks require more maintenance and care but didn't trying pushing a larger sale. One the guys that worked there was actually good and gave me some advice and answers all my questions without giving me bs. I'm new to the hobby but reading these boards help me elminate the bs answers that a LFS might give. I just have to keep in mind that everyone has a little different way of doing thing in this hobby. Good advice that I received from an ex fish store worker. Link to comment
technoshaman Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Bummer man, Well you are in the right place here. I think everyone will offer any help we can. Selling you a tank with 4 damsels? WTF was that guy smoking. Grade A @sshole in my book I'd bounce his head off the curb a few times to knock some integrity and customer service skills into his pinhead. But since we can't do that I'd just not go there anymore and try to find a decent store in your are or a good local reef/marine club that can offer local support. I am fortunate that I have 2 great and 2 decent stores where I live with the exception of one who is jsut trying to make a buck (but has amazingly healthy livestock) they have all been honest with me. Link to comment
Vish Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Thats an awfull experience. My LFS told me last year when I visted him with questions and he recommended me that I should start with fresh water. I did. Now After 1 year of fresh water, he says now you should be able to jump right in with a pich of salt I think it was well said by somebody "Satans fish keeper" Link to comment
Cami Posted January 12, 2003 Author Share Posted January 12, 2003 Thanks all for the welcome and the advice. I may have been the tinyest bit melodramtic, though I did tell you the truth. I do plan on making it work. The tank is doing well. The diatom outbreak seems to be gone. All is well. I am a bit concerned about the low PH though I think I'm gonna wait it out for now. Sal 1.023, ph 7.9, am 0, nitrate 0, and nitrite 0. Could be worse. And I don't know where I'd be without this message board. You guys and gals got me through a major crash just by being here. Good advice is good advice even if it wasn't meant for me. Thanks, Cami Go Bucs Link to comment
lizbeth Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Welcome and glad to see you. I saw your story on another board and wondered why you hadn't posted here when I saw that you were signed up. I figured you were reading and learning. I wouldn't worry about the ph right now. Let your tank stabilize for a while longer. What fish do you have in there now? Link to comment
newreefers Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 when are you testing your ph? ph swings with light cycle. if you are testing in the am prior to the lights being on then it should be around 7.9 8.0, after the lights have been of for a bit then it should be 8.2- 8.4. if you test in the dark your ph is right on. Link to comment
Cami Posted January 13, 2003 Author Share Posted January 13, 2003 I have 4 damsels and a clown. I test my ph before I shut the lights at night. I will try it in the morning before I turn them on. I wanted to post here three weeks ago but the system wouldn't let me until day before yesterday. I had to rough it on my own, and alot of searches. That other board I posted on seems to be full of nano snobs, (except for a few.) The overall concensous on that board was if you don't have a zillion years experience in SW then a nano is doomed to failure. I received little advice and alot of "You have no bussiness with a nano. Trade it in on a 55 or larger." This message board is different. Tons of helpful people. My next step is a refugium, if nothing else, to increase the volume of water. I'm either going with the HOB or a 5.5 gal DIY behind the tank. It's not going to happen for a few weeks. Thanks, Cami Link to comment
SaltyDawg Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 What substrate are you using? I used play sand and found out the hard way that the PH will not be stable or buffered at all with play sand and went to Natures Ocean Premium Reef substrate (dry bagged). I kept about one cup of the old in with the new and all is well now. My water is ALOT clearer now too. Before I had a yellow tint to everything and thought my amonia was always high. I probably wasted about 10 uses of my kit for this reason alone! To all who live in the Cincinatti ohio area : The is an awsome LFS in harpers point shopping mall on montgomery road. The name is Just About Fish. ( JustAboutFish.com) They rock! They are the ones that sold me the mushroom's and, the Polyp's for 11 bucks out the door! THey are very insightfull and always willing to help you make the right choices for your needs. Everytime I go they remember me and exactly what set up I have. They always try to find me the smallest but nicest frag's and set them back incase I might wont to buy them for my 5.5g. BUT, before they let me buy anything I have to give them a sample of my water and they only let me add a creature every two weeks. Which in my opinion couldnt be understood as anything but a very customer based buisness with one thing in mind. Providing happy healthy homes for all of their live stock. ( and they no I am a total newbie and are trying their damdest to my tank a sucess!) Sorry about the novel i just wrote there! :)p Link to comment
gobies Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Ack. You have a way overstocked tank. I don't think any of the lifers here have more than one or maybe two fish in a 7g, unless they're the teeny tiny clown gobies (which are about an inch long). Link to comment
Crakeur Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Originally posted by eha1322 are you plaing on writing a book after this thread? sheesh, that was a book. Actually, let's start with the first problem. Too many fish. In a 7 gallon, 2 fish is probably too many, although many, including myself, pull it off. Also, anemones move around too much and will wreak havoc on the other inhabitants, or die and, if they die, they melt. This translates into CRASH CITY. I hate going into a fish store and seeing these gorgeous, overstocked, nanos that have a sign that reads mini-reef, all stocked and loaded, $300. What they don't say is that most of the stuff will die and you will spend at least $300 replacing everything and still won't get it right because then you will upgrade equipment. He was right when he made that ######## comment about the lesson learned. I would have probably taught him a lesson about how to take a shot to the nose but that would have only made me feel better for a few days. Take it slow, read everything you can on this site and others and you should start to get an understanding as to just how hard it is to keep and maintain a reef (of any size) with even moderate success. Hell, go to the member tank threads and scroll backwards and you will see shots of beauty and the same member will then show off his "new" set-up thanks to a crash or some other mishap. Let's face it, we are not mother nature and only she can truly maintain a reef with any perfection and even she has to contend with evil forces such as mankind ruining her tanks. Ok, now I wrote a book. Link to comment
Cami Posted January 13, 2003 Author Share Posted January 13, 2003 I know it was overstocked and everything you said is true. It just takes one crash and guess what, not overstocked anymore. I would have to say that my nano is recovering nicely. I was lucky in that my LR and LS are still alive. I am now slowly reintroducing a clean up crew. This nano is still much less work than my discus, and I know what I'm doing with them. Even after I add the refugium, bringing the volume up to about 12 - 13 gals, the daily tests, top offs, and weekly water changes are nothing compared to the 100 gals or so I change everyday for the discus. I have lost a 6 inch discus just by turning a room light on. One flash of light and 200 dollars gone. I have a lot to learn and I do believe this is the place to learn it. Now if I could just learn to write shorter posts, I'll be fine. Cami Link to comment
lizbeth Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Cami, you are still way overstocked with the five fish. You should find a new home for three of them. It will make your tank much easier to manage. Link to comment
KnOt-HaRd Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 kinda off subject.........but a flash of light and a discus dies?? I've kept discus for a while and just started breeding them. never had one die because of a flash of light. Link to comment
Cami Posted January 13, 2003 Author Share Posted January 13, 2003 Six months ago I had a 6 inch real nice PB get startled when the light went on. He slammed into the glass on the back of the tank. Next day, backstroke. I stand corrected on the overstocking. Should be soon to be not overstocked. Cami Link to comment
KnOt-HaRd Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 when discus are skiddish like that it means something is spooking them or something is wrong with their water. check the ph ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. Link to comment
Cami Posted January 15, 2003 Author Share Posted January 15, 2003 That was the only skitish discus I've ever had. Never would adjust. he was beautiful, but he was a pain in you know what. All of my other discus eat anything I put in the tank, not him. He'd only eat live Bloodworms or live brine shrimp. I feed my discus flake and granuals everyday and live bloodworms any time I pass the tank and they look hungry, so they eat 4 to 6 times daily. I never feed beefheart, (I like clean water.) My discus tank water is always good and stable. PH 7.0 am 0.0 nitrite 0.0 nitrate 0.0. I change alot of water! Cami Link to comment
MaryHM Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Sarasota, FL isn't all that far from Tampa. Look up John at Fish & Other Ichthy stuff in Oldsmar. He'll treat you right. One of the best LFS I've come across, and I deal with LOTS! Tell him Mary at MSI sent you. Link to comment
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