dslr lens options

[MegaDeTH]

I've got a D50 on order, but I am in need of lens advice

 

Targets will be 2-10" away from the lens

 

looking for larger than life prints, extreem close up's

 

I ordered a 60mm f/2.8D Macro Autofocus Lens to go with the camera

 

 

but I'm pretty sure I'll need step up rings to go along with it

 

 

sugestions?

 

 

I used to put the coral on the sand in front of the glass, and put my coolpix 4500 right up on the glass, with a +12 diopter to get the extreemly close shots

 

Looking for flexibility and extreemly closeup shots, without having to move the target would be great

 

I'm not concerned about moving targets, so I can use low iso & no flash, it's the extreem closeups I like, to the point where you dont know what it is

 

here's a sample, I prefer closer than this, or near this level, it's an orange plate in my nano

 

[reefin300]

100mm will allow the distance you are looking for while 60mm might make you get between 6-8 inches for those macros. If you want an all around lense I think the 20-200mm Zoom lense would be good.

 

www.aquatic-photography is where you want to go for the best advise and you can see how/what settings are used.

 

I myself am in the process of purchasing a camera, haven't made my choice. I think the D50 is missing the commander mode which helps with the intensity of the flash - or something to that nature.

[noogie]

Do you know the macro ratio, er the focal distance to film plain ratio, something like that. It looks like this, "1:1" or maybe, "1:2"

 

If it is a 1:1 lens then you can get very tight close near microscopic pics. Anyway that ratio is telling you how large the image will be represented on the film plain, in this case, CMOS sensor.

 

In other words if you took a photo of a ruler and at full macro then you could fit just about 1 inch across the film plain. If you blew that up to an 8x10 then that 1 inch would print up at almost 10 inches. I have an old school medical lens for my 20d (Canon) that is rated at 2:1 That thing can get in deep to an image.

 

If your lens is a 1:1 then a 2x stepup will put it at that power. Keep in mind that stepups can really distort an image around the edges and really, really bad at the corners. One light weight stepup will not cause much of a problem, but don't try adding 3@4x rings. You'll get garbage for a photo.

 

G'Luck

[reefin300]

[paradise]

First a couple of suggestions.

 

Is this a Nano cube that you are talking about? If it is, good luck with any kind of great macro shots. I can not take those with my equipment and experience, the curved glass and the inability to put flash on top because of the enclosed hood are a HUGE Problem. You need a glass tank that has a completely straight front to take good photos.

 

You may want to setup a photo tank for this stuff. A reg. 10g with some saltwater that is close to the same parameters as the main tank, and a pump to circulate water. A bunch of base rock or LR setup to take the whole back of the tank, and a place to put your coral in the middle close to the front where you do your shooting. I do it all the time with smaller subjects. Never SW but same principle.

 

Reefin is right, you will MISS the commander mode on that D50, but dont fret, if you have no choice anymore, in a couple of months the new wireless controller is coming out for Nikon and you will be able to use that to control flashes. For now, get a SB800 and a Synch cord and you will be fine.

 

As far as lenses, the 100mm 2.8 macro is better than the 60mm because of its much shorter minimum distance to the subject. And it's EVEN better if you do it on Manual focus, on auto, it tends to seek and go weird with close distances, on Macro you can go almost right up to the subject.

 

There are close up lenses made for macros, but they increase the minimum distance required, and are great for butterfly shots but not for aquatic. You dont need one with a good macro lens.

 

Oh, yeah, click on my Signature, APF is the place to get this type of info from experts (I Pretend to be one of them, it's my site)

[MegaDeTH]

I would never use the commander mode, if I needed an external flash I would buy the SB800 it's wireless with the d50

 

all my pics are pretty low ISO non moving targets, I never ever use a flash, they tend to wash out colors too much for my taste, nor do I want to learn how to correct for flash

 

commander mode is a subtle difference, that feature alone is not worth the extra difference to me

 

 

the 60mm is a 1:1 lens

 

PS, I have many tanks, the nano is one of 4 current tanks

 

I'm sure I'll have many more, I'm eye'ing a 220g for downstairs, I miss my old 220

 

The camera will be used mostly as a point shoot, but I want a real good macro setup

 

 

I'll play with the 60mm, I currently use +12 diopter on my cp4500 with fair results, I can never get that stupid thing to focus right

[paradise]

First, NO, D50 can not use SB800 wirelessly. Trust me And flash from the top does not mess up colors. You should research your stuff and try it before you make statements like that. Direct flash does, not flash from the top, it's the natural colors that sunlight from the top or a light fixture would provide, except much greater intensity, which allows for higher shutter speeds.

 

Also, from your statement, about "larger than life prints" I would dare you to make big prints out of photos taken w/out flash. The critical sharpness that flash provides is not possible without it. No matter how stationary your subjects are, and btw, there is no such thing as living stationary subjects, you magnify your photo and you see they are not , Plus your water moves a lot too.

 

Anyways, you should do what you are comfortable with, but please try not to dismiss advice from people who have a certain degree of expertise in the matter so lightly

[MegaDeTH]

First, NO, D50 can not use SB800 wirelessly. Trust me And flash from the top does not mess up colors. You should research your stuff and try it before you make statements like that.

 

First I didnt dismiss anyones advice,

 

I hate using flash, really I do, the colors never match the tank, I hate flash, I thought I said that clearly enough, I never use flash

 

and I dont have time to photochop what comes out of the camera is what I use

 

if I do I will use the wireless nikon flash, not that I ever will, I just hate using flash

 

this is the wireless setup for the D50,

 

commander mode is something I have never used EVER, and probably never will

 

so saying the d50 cant do wireless flash is not quite true

 

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1...&productNr=4794

 

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1...&productNr=4801

[paradise]

You say you dont dismiss advice but yet you are totally dismissing what I said in the prev. message. Have you any experience with a DSLR or a wireless "from the top" flash setup? IF you did you would never talk about wrong colors or needing photoshop. It amazes me that people talk about things they have never done themselves. And getting a D50 even , and saying they will never Photoshop, is insane. Why get D50 or any other DSLR if you are not going to use RAW? And if you do use RAW you need NEED photoshop, because of the way RAW works. IF you want to point and shoot, what is the reason for a DSLR.

 

Also I looked at the links, they are links for FLASH, which, YEAH, you can get, but the problem is that commander mode allows you to put that SB800 on top of the tank and control it without the flash being on the hot shoe of your camera, which is EXACTLY What makes the colors "weird". SB800 controls other flashes, but to do that, it has to be on the hot shoe of a camera. Now you need 2 flashes to do it right. So which is better.

 

I dont understand " I would never use commander mode". DO you know what it is and what it does? You are dismissing possibly the MOST AMAZING feature for aquatic photography since DSLRs were invented.

 

I know you just signed on APF, I suggest you really look through the site and research the stuff, because you are saying things that are not real.

 

I mean it, I really want to help you, just like I do for anyone else on any other site I frequent, and on my own, but you have to assume that you may not know everything

[MegaDeTH]

I dont have time to photoshop photos, what comes out of the camera is what I upload to my website, it's that simple, I will absolutly NOT use photoshop, or a flash except for point/shoot of the kids

 

I'm a point shoot, NOT a pro, I have zero interest in a flash setup or installing photoshop, and I'll never use raw format, high jpeg is fine for me

 

 

I have a nikon 4500 but it's too slow, from click to capture I end up getting the back of my kids head, it drives me nuts

 

 

Someday, maybe when I quit my job and my kids are grown up I might get a flash setup, the SU-800 Wireless Speedlight Commander is a wireless commander for the SB-800 AF Speedlight for the d50, if I really cared about commander mode, I would have bought a d70, I dont so I didnt

 

the ONLY thing the d50 does not do, is the built in flash wont commander another speedlight, big deal I wouldnt use this anyway, I hate flash, I looked through your site, you can always tell who uses a flash and who does not, most fish pics used flash.

 

I'm sure you love canon, it's pretty obvious you hate the d50, I prefer nikon, there's plenty of others that love the d50 too, it's perfect for me

 

 

Honestly I did not like most peoples pictures, I went through the first 3 pages of the pic forum and didnt like any

 

except this thread

 

http://aquatic-photography.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5181

 

wow those are nice, but they are taken with no flash, the last pic does look like it was taken with a flash, it didnt turn out nearly as nice as the top ones, oversaturated, and the coral behind it does not look right

 

 

 

Here's how I take pics

 

 

take pics in point shoot auto mode

 

pull from flash card onto web site

 

done

 

no touchup, I seriously dont have time or interest in doing that, you do, that's cool, I dont

 

what I want is a very nice point/shoot with lens options, I've done the non slr route for 5-6 years, now that dslr's are cheaper they are affordable

[paradise]

First I dont hate Nikon. Do you really think I could run the Premiere Aquatic Photography site in the world and hate one of the two major brands of cameras? That is just plain ignorant. I do not like D50, just as I do not like 350D that Canon makes, for a simple reason, you dont make a dumbed down DSLR

 

And you STILL dont know what commander mode does. It does not use on board flash to control speedlights, it uses an infrared sensor. So all the flash goes from the top. There is no direct flash affecting the photos colors. And to say that you hate every photo except one thread on that site is proposterous, some of the best photographers in the world did those. Are you really that stuck in your own opinion that you will insult all those people, COLLECTIVELY? Insane.

 

So you just spent all the money on a DSLR just to take point and shoot pics that you wont edit for final touches? OK, I am done here ... :)

[MegaDeTH]

First I dont hate Nikon.

 

Did I say that? Please dont put words in my mouth, I said you dont like the d50

 

So you just spent all the money on a DSLR just to take point and shoot pics that you wont edit for final touches?

 

 

Yes, I'm a point shoot end user, NOT a pro, not everyone needs raw images with every possible camera body option, my current camera does raw too, I have owned it years, taken hundreds and hundreds of pictures, and I've NEVER used it

 

seriously you need to relax, your just a little too stuck on yourself and what you think every camera enthusist should be doing

 

commanders mode is simply something I wouldnt bother using, so it's not worth the extra 300 $ for the d70 and another 300 $ for a speedlight

 

 

Are you really that stuck in your own opinion that you will insult all those people, COLLECTIVELY? Insane.

 

no need to insult, I didnt, I just didnt like the photos, I went through about 10 pages of posts, there were a couple really nice coral macro's I liked, we are all entitled to an opinion

 

if you are so high that you think everyone will like the exact same photo's, you might want to climb off cloud 9

 

I got lots of advice that's applicable in this thread, I probably need to get a 2x stepup

 

I never did ask about flash's, just lenses, after all, the lens is more important than the body imo

[reefin300]

So you just spent all the money on a DSLR just to take point and shoot pics that you wont edit for final touches? OK, I am done here ... :)

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[MegaDeTH]

Why would I have to use raw and photoshop my images?

 

I really dont think 95 % of the camera users out there do this

 

 

I would love to see my parents try to use photoshop

 

seriously, you guys are hardcore, I'm not, I just want a really good point shoot camera, which I'm sure the d50 is, everyone I know with one loves them.

 

 

I dont know how this thread went from lens advice, to insulting me, all I asked for was some lens advice, not the 3rd degree on how I should take and handle photos

[paradise]

Well, I personally keep with this thread so that others can benefit from reading it. Since your second reply I understood you are not going to be "reached". This is for others

 

BTW, folks, D50 is not a good buy as a Point and shoot. Anyone who knows the reasons for buying a DSLR will tell you that.

[Pili]

just to be fair here, with most point and shoots, you cant shoot at 2.5 frames per second. Thus the reason for the dslr.

 

But other than that, i can pretty much garentee you that as soon as really see the capabilities of the camera (i have it my self) you will want to at least explore what you can do with raw and photoshop that you cant do with jpeg. There is really so much more that you can do.

 

Also 95% of digital camera users probebly dont own dslr's and cant shoot in RAW.

 

Back to which lens is good: For aquarium photography, the nikkor 105mm Micro is pretty much the best you can get.

[paradise]

Pili, you are right on all counts.

[MegaDeTH]

D50 is not a good buy as a Point and shoot. Anyone who knows the reasons for buying a DSLR will tell you that.

 

 

please enlighten me why is it not a good point & shoot camera?

 

keep in mind, nobody that uses it as a point & shoot will be using remote flash setups

 

so what is wrong with it? asside from commander mode

[MegaDeTH]

Lots of talking about commander mode, with no details on what it is, ie people talking poop without any facts or links to what they are talking about.

 

so here's the scoop for those following

 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/ittlslave.htm

 

that site pretty much sums it up, with samples, and even talk about the d70 vs d50, and how to make a d50 work like a d70 as a commander with the sb-600/800 or the new SU-800 commander

 

This is what the review sites say about the d50 commander mode flash issue

 

D50

i-TTL + Wireless Creative Lighting System with SB-800, SB-600, No "Commander Mode" on built-in flash. Master Nikon SB-800 speedlight can be used on camera to control up to 3 remote groups of speedlights with the Wireless Creative Lighting System.

 

and for the D70

i-TTL + Wireless Creative Lighting System with SB-800, SB-600, "Commander Mode" on built-in flash for wireless multi-flash support

 

 

I dont see what the problem is, I can use the SB-800 to control remote speedlights on the d50, and on the d70, the only drawback is I need 2 flash setups with the d50, and one flash setup with the built in flash on the d70

 

if I missed something, please be more specific, cryptic answers dont help, this is far deeper into camera tech than I enjoy

[paradise]

First, I am not a P&S guy, sorry, have been using DSLRs exclusively for a while now.

 

Second, yeah, you can use the item youare talking about, which BTW is not even available till later this year or next year, to simulate the commander mode. Canon has had it for years, STE2 wireless controller, which is how 100% of my fish pics are done , but it will be over $300 and by that time you are spending more or the same.

 

Hey, I am not telling you what to get, I am just trying to show you that flash photography done right, whether through commander mode, or the new controller, has revolutionized aquatic photography. You can NEVER EVER achieve the same results.

 

BTW, a statement you made earlier about not liking any pics on the site, except that one thread by my friend Eric, and a few other misc. coral shots. Eric shoots alot, and uses the commander mode whenever allowed, these were LFS shots, and they didnot allow flash He's actually reading this thread here, and is aware about how prepostorous the comments are.

[MegaDeTH]

and is aware about how prepostorous the comments are.

 

My taste in photo's is not the same as yours, not sure why that's so hard for you to deal with

 

the best photo's on that forum were erics, they were top notch, somehow you turned my compliment into an insult?

 

The colors seem richer with low iso and no flash, call me crazy if you wish, I prefer no flash, and I can ususally tell when a flash was used

[noogie]

Why is everybody bashing this person? All that was asked was advice for a lens.

 

the 60mm 1:1 is an excellent macro choice. I would have gone for longer, as I like the longer length look. But that is up to the two of us. There is no one standard to making good pictures. I too think that flash screws up photos. I have been shooting and working in a studio for several years. I own the 20d, yes mostly for P&S pics. There is no way that a person can learn to take good pictures with out a decent SLR.

 

In the studio we rely on static lighting instead of flash lighting. The lighting scenario is different for most shoots and temperature and color mixture are all controlled to really mimic natural lighting. Most work done outside is done with natural lighting and reflectors are used to fill in the dark spots. Flash is really only a backup technology for when lighting and equipment are sub par.

 

The photographer that I have worked for does not even have flash gear in studio and has never taken a flash onto the field. I owned the EOS3 before I owned the 20d, no built in flash, and I didn't own a flash. Just used my 50mm 1.2 with 50iso or 200iso, all was well. Before then the only equipment I could afford was a cardboard box (did it the obscura way in those days). I have even won a local photo contest, that many local pros participated in, with only a disposable Fuji.

 

Hell as I stated earlier, a pinhole camera can out compete even the cameras of today’s standards if set up and used properly.

 

As for PS, it really is a help when dealing with the oddities of long bitrate RAW images. It is not necessary to use, but it does come in handy. The d50 has excellent onboard signal processing technology and the uncompressed JPG files might be of use to a person not interested in PS. But then again one of the advantages to digital is the instant feed back. If the image needs editing, just delete it and reshoot it.

 

G'Luck man.

[Ebn]

OMG...I'm alive, haha.

 

Glad you liked those pics, Mega. Had to take those without the flash due to the way the tanks were set up (open top tanks), but it worked out nonetheless due to the strong amount of lights over them that shutter speed wasn't really a problem.

 

You pegged it right on the head with the key difference between the D70 and the D50 - commander mode. On the D50, there is no commander mode using the onboard flash, whereas on the D70, you can use the onboard flash as commander. It's really not a big deal until you decide to upgrade later on. With the D50, you have to either pick up the SU-800 unit (not yet out on the market, so unsure about it's price) or the SB-800 flash itself especially if you go with multiple flash system. The SB-600 doesn't work as a master unit, so that's why you have to go with the SB-800. On the D70, the onboard flash can be used as a master and you can trigger SB-600s and SB-800s (difference between these two are really power) with it. The price difference here between these two cameras is in this aspect.

 

As for lenses, you'll get the most out of macro (Nikon calls them micro) lenses over filters that you can stack in front of the camera. I myself own the Nikon 55mm f/3.5 micro, Tamron 90mm f/2.8 macro, and the Nikon 105mm f/2.8D micro. All of them will go to 1:1 magnification, and that's already pretty high. The 60mm f/2.8 micro lens is another great one. If you want to go beyond that then you'll have to resort to other means (bellows, reverse lenses, etc.).

 

The D50 is a capable P&S camera if you choose to use it like so. It deals with noise reasonably well at higher ISO settings so you can get away with it somewhat to use for available low light photography (especially if you were to partner it with some fast glass). Shooting in RAW just allows you more flexibility later on if you chose to mess around with it in post.

 

Lastly, about using flash for fish photography, if done correctly, it will allow you plenty of flexibility and allow you to grab some shots that you wouldn't be able to due to shutter speed. Both the D50 and D70 has a flash sync of 1/500 (one of the areas where they shine above their Canon counterparts), which will allow you to freeze just about any movement from your fish. Take for instance the two pictures below...please excuse the background in the second one (testing out different color acrylic pieces).

 

On board flash firing.

 

 

Two SB-800s above tank fired; triggered by D70's onboard flash.

[MegaDeTH]

Thanks for the advice all

 

What do you all use for archiving photos?

 

 

I just realized I have 3000 photos, half on my gallery php site

 

 

wow I need to clean & archive to dvd

 

is there any good software for that? Open source prefered, I run linux, I need to catalog by date & store

[Nednai]

There’s no need to guess. Just rent the lenses you’re thinking about purchasing and see for yourself which one you like.