Plans for a pico

[baj]

Hi,

Ive been lurking for quite a while now and I want to now try to start a pico 2.5g tank. Yes, I am a salt water newbie (I have kept planted nanos for quite a while now but I think thats a totally different ballgame, no?) and no i cannot keep a bigger tank because I live in student housing. However, i assure you i will be responsible. I do not plan on keeping any farmed or wild live rock, I only plan on keeping cured lace rock (so i will feel less guilty of playing a small part in destroying a real reef somewhere on the other side of the planet, if my project goes down the toilet really quickly) in the tank and I wont put in any livestock until I know that I have a nice place set for them. So having that out of the way, I would be grateful if i could get some feedback on my plans and timeline.

 

Plans:

 

Equipment:

1) 2.5g AGA tank

2) Lighting - 2x13W PC w/ 1 10,000K and 1 10,000K/Actinic (should i go for 4x13W instead or will 2x13W be enough, I plan to eventually keep zoas)

3) Cured Lace Rock - 5lbs

4) Live sand - enough for 1.5" deep bed?

5) Aquaclear Fuge with cheato

6) Hagen 50W heater

7) Circulation - 1 rio 50 powerhead

 

Timeline:

1) t=0th day: Get approval from nano-reef gurus

2) t=10d, setup tank with live sand, salt mix, run powerhead for 14 days

3) t=24d, setup liverock and run powerhead for 16days

4) t=40th day after get-approval-from-nano-reef-gurus day, introduce livestock

 

I would be very grateful for any help...If these plans are stupid, then please tell me that I am stupid (I wont mind, but better I correct myself)

Thank you!

regards,

-b

[doncb]

I would do this:

 

Timeline:

1) t=0th day: Get approval from nano-reef gurus

2) t=1d, setup tank with live sand, liverock, salt water, run powerhead.

3) t=2d ->,Start checking water parameters. Top off w/ distilled water as needed.

4) t=??d, All water tests = 0. Add cleanup crew. Begin weekly 10% water changes.

5) t=14 to 30 days after #4 begin slowly adding livestock.

 

If you wait to add your LR after your LS you will have another cycle. Just do it all at once.

 

Have fun!

[baj]

I would do this:

 

Timeline:

1) t=0th day: Get approval from nano-reef gurus

2) t=1d, setup tank with live sand, liverock, salt water, run powerhead.

3) t=2d ->,Start checking water parameters. Top off w/ distilled water as needed.

4) t=??d, All water tests = 0. Add cleanup crew. Begin weekly 10% water changes.

5) t=14 to 30 days after #4 begin slowly adding livestock.

 

If you wait to add your LR after your LS you will have another cycle. Just do it all at once.

 

Have fun!

 

 

Thanks for your suggestion, I will modify my plan accordingly. Is my equipment list ok?

[mickey85]

5lbs seems like a LOT of rock. I've probably got 3G in mine and I wouldn't put any more in for fear of looking too crowded...

[manicfish]

Hi Baj!

 

I wouldn't be so concerned about using 'real' live rock. Live rock isn't (or shouldn't be) broken off of reefs by divers -- it's rubble rock that is broken off by storms and deposited on the sea floor. Live rock is also considered to be essential to any small reef tank, both for the variety of organisms it brings and it's porosity (which can aid in denitrification). Be far more concerned about the livestock you put into your tank (many of which really are taken right off the reef) and aim for specimens that are captive propogated and (most importantly!) that you will be able to support. We all make mistakes, so research is always your best tool. Welcome to the hobby! I hope your wallet can keep up with your habit.

[baj]

Hi

thanks for the replies. Another question is how much of a time commitment am I looking at per day (not counting the time spent just looking at it) just for upkeep of the tank?

Thanks.

regards,

-b

[mickey85]

with my tank, although I'm sure I'm not doing what every one RECCOMENDS I do, I just top off the water, feed my fish and check the salinity daily. Weekly, I run chemical tests (ammonia, nitrites and rates), and do a 20% water change.

[tinyreef]

Another question is how much of a time commitment am I looking at per day (not counting the time spent just looking at it) just for upkeep of the tank?

if you're single, it can run anywhere between 30-min. to 2-hours every day.

 

if you're married, about 2 to 5-minutes every other day.

[baj]

if you're single, it can run anywhere between 30-min. to 2-hours every day.

 

if you're married, about 2 to 5-minutes every other day.

 

2 to 5 minutes it is then

[baj]

Hi,

I have attached a bad diagram of some preliminary plans. The perspective is from the top.

 

 

The tank is 2.5g standard AGA (12"x6"x8").

The solid black line is a plexiglass divider, equipment list is in blue, chambers are in red and the view area layout in green.

The plan is to have the water overflow into the long cheato chamber at the back, from which the water should flow into the rubble chamber, and get pumped out of the back chamber and into the display area through the AC mini. The AC mini will have the phosgard and other stuff and also foam for removing crud. The lamps are 2x13W AH supply lamps over the display area and a 6700k cfl over the fuge area. The rubble area will get scattered lighting from the hood. The little live rock pile will get some flow from the ac mini return and a rio-50 powerhead for the bigger pile.

Anyhow, I would really appreciate any comments on the design and if it looks ok.

[tinyreef]

Anyhow, I would really appreciate any comments on the design and if it looks ok.

c'mon, admit it, you stole those battle plans from the Pentagon, right?

 

vee have vays to make you talk.

 

if you attack the heater with an extra platoon of clowns, i think you'll win the refugium zone. just lob a few macro grenades at the hagens and they'll surrender quick.

[baj]

c'mon, admit it, you stole those battle plans from the Pentagon, right?

 

vee have vays to make you talk.

 

if you attack the heater with an extra platoon of clowns, i think you'll win the refugium zone. just lob a few macro grenades at the hagens and they'll surrender quick.

 

 

HAHA

ok now that you've got what I hope to be substantial return on your little joke (if not....HAHAHAHAHA), could you please let me know what you really think (apart from me being an ass that is, I AM an ass) as far as the desgin (a dyslexic ass) goes? I am just looking to know if this is overkill, and can I do without sectioning off a part of the tank for the fuge etc... or should i let it be, is there enough flow in the tank, and does the placement of the lights look ok (26watts should be adequate for most SPS? ), was my color choice fool-proof?

[tinyreef]

i'm sorry, i don't think you're an ass at all. i was just having some fun.

 

the design looks good.

 

a couple of things i would suggest is that you may want the fuge light to be a 9W or 13W also. less chance of light bleeding into the tank if you go RDP (reverse daylight photosynthesis). you may have it cordoned off tho, i just can't tell for sure.

 

also, is there a reason you are separating the two chambers in the back with the addt'l baffle?

 

you can also just stick the heater in the hob versus the back section. not a biggie but i figure if you may want more room and options back there.

 

you'll have to wait for a sps-guy to chime in on the lighting for that. i'm sps-deficient.

[baj]

i'm sorry, i don't think you're an ass at all. i was just having some fun.

 

hi please dont apologize, its ok, and thanks for your feedback!!

 

The additional baffle was to keep the cheato organized in one chamber, that way it wont get sucked into the hob intake and hopefully keep it from floating all over the place.

[baj]

Hi all,

 

My initial plans for the pico is at the beginning of this thread. However, I realized with such a large self-contained fuge area as indicated, I would be out of real estate. Moreover, the piece of acrylic I found was too small to make that anyway

So I cut down on the size of the fuge area and I couldnt fit the 10W screw in bulb without destroying my already crappy diy hood, so I just went with the 2 13W lamps. I put together a remote enclosed ballast box, so I could keep excess heat away from inside the hood, and since it is remote, I can keep it far away from the hood itself, moreover, a ballast box allowed me to run one grounding wire to the box.

 

SUMMARY OF THE TANK:

 

Yesterday, I bought a pound and a half of live sand, 4 pounds of live rock and some rubble and set my tank up. As of today, some of the tested parameters are:

 

1) Specific gravity : 1.022-1.023

2) pH: 8.13

3) Temperature: ART, ~79F

 

and here is a FTS:

 

 

As you can see, the main display area overflows into the fuge area, which has just some rubble and coral skeletons as of now, I plan to add some cheato in there. The water from the fuge area is returned to the display area by a AC mini, the AC mini only contains a polyfilter pad. That stuff rocks, it cleared the haziness of the water within minutes. I initially planned on a heater, but I think I will monitor the tanks temperature first, I dont think it will get too cold anyway.

 

LIGHTS:

 

The lights are:

1) 1 13w Hellolights 10,000k

2) 1 13w Helios 50-50 (12,000k/7,100k)

 

in a DIY wooden hood with a polished aluminium reflector. Both lights are on from 7am to 8pm. Here is a shot of the inside of the hood with the lights on:

 

 

Since the lights are mounted at the end, the live rock pile is well light, and diffuse reflected light gets into the fuge area and the area beneath the powerhead. Here is a closeup of the live rock pile:

 

 

CIRCULATION:

 

Water circulation is through a rio 50 powerhead, this comes on an hour before lights on and go off an hour after lights off. Remaining circulation is through the AC mini, I've observed the outflow water to gently tumble around the rock pile. As far as I can tell, there are two low flow areas in the tank, one is at the rear right of the rock pile (sort off where the acrylic meets the glass behind the rocks) and the second is the area below the powerhead.

Here is a shot of the side of the tank:

 

 

and here is a shot from the top of the tank:

 

 

Here is a shot of the tank without any post processing for levels etc:

 

 

PLANS FOR THE TANK:

 

I plan to stock the tank with 2 blue damsels, 2 chromis, 2 powder blue tangs and 1 moray eel (obligatory and irritating newbie joke). Ok, I want to mainly keep softies, I love zooanthids. The sand has a bunch of drag-racing critters, I also found a small seastar crawling about.

 

Now for some questions, once again, I would greatly appreciate any help, advice and opinions:

 

1) Do the two low flow areas mentioned above pose a problem?

 

2) Is my live sand bed enough, do I need to double what I already have?

 

3) What do you think about my live rock scape, I placed it that way so I could get at least two shelves for placing zooanthids on.

 

4) With the lights that I have, will I be able to keep SPS?

 

5) Since the light in the fuge is not direct, but reflected, I am planning on adding either a 11" T5 from commodityaxis or a 18w PC lamp. Is this necessary, or would it be overkill (not!)?

 

6) I only have polyfilter in the AC mini. The idea behind this configuration of overflow and AC mini was so I could keep chemical stuff in the AC mini. Do I need anything else, like carbon, phosban etc?

 

7) Do i need to raise the SG to1.024-1.026 if I were to keep corals and inverts only (someone said I should)?

 

8) I think I will need more rubble in the fuge area, right now its filled with 1" sized pieces and there is a pile about an inch thick, I plan on filling at least half the fuge area with rubble, then place a plastic mesh and keep cheato in the top half. Does this sound ok?

 

9) My plans for the next few days are to test the water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and check for a cycle (the rock is fully cured and transit time was about 3 hours from LFS tank to my tank).

I plan to do a water change at the end of the 2nd week, do these sound right?

 

Once again thanks for the inspiration!

Regards,

-b

[mickey85]

This is JMO...

 

1) Do the two low flow areas mentioned above pose a problem?

 

I wouldn't think so, but if so, why not put your powerhead in the back corner? (opposite the overflow). That way it would also be hidden by the black wall and live rock

 

2) Is my live sand bed enough, do I need to double what I already have?

 

I"m running about 2 cm in my 2.5 gallon tank and I think it's a bit much. If I were to do it again, I'd go bare bottom. You're fine on sand.

 

3) What do you think about my live rock scape, I placed it that way so I could get at least two shelves for placing zooanthids on.

 

It could look cool, but personally, I think your pieces are way too big. It makes the tank look very small. If you use a lot of little pieces, it will make the tank look bigger, and will be easier to aquascape.

 

4) With the lights that I have, will I be able to keep SPS? smile.gif

 

no.

 

5) Since the light in the fuge is not direct, but reflected, I am planning on adding either a 11" T5 from commodityaxis or a 18w PC lamp. Is this necessary, or would it be overkill (not!)?

 

As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as overkill on reef tanks. I'd go with whichever gives you more light. That way you'll also get rid of your dark spot (by the AC) and be able to grow more corals faster.

 

6) I only have polyfilter in the AC mini. The idea behind this configuration of overflow and AC mini was so I could keep chemical stuff in the AC mini. Do I need anything else, like carbon, phosban etc?

 

Most say that you don't need carbon, etc, but I personally run a carbon filter in my 2.5G. As it is in the stock category for the contest, I find that the carbon does almost as good of a job as a protein skimmer for removing nasties.

 

7) Do i need to raise the SG to1.024-1.026 if I were to keep corals and inverts only (someone said I should)?

 

my SG is about 1.024 (allowing for daily evap). You're fine.

 

8) I think I will need more rubble in the fuge area, right now its filled with 1" sized pieces and there is a pile about an inch thick, I plan on filling at least half the fuge area with rubble, then place a plastic mesh and keep cheato in the top half. Does this sound ok?

 

Sounds good to me.

 

9) My plans for the next few days are to test the water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and check for a cycle (the rock is fully cured and transit time was about 3 hours from LFS tank to my tank).

I plan to do a water change at the end of the 2nd week, do these sound right?

 

sounds good. It'll probably cycle a bit anyway, so be prepeared, but it shouldn't last longer than a few days to a week.

 

 

SOmeone else should chime in, but these answers are just my opinion.

[schaadrak]

1) Low flow areas are not a problem if you blow off any detritus that may have settled there during the week.

 

2) Sand bed is fine for your size tank. Deep sand beds aren't as effective on small footprint tanks.

 

3) Nobody is ever satisfied with their hardscaping even years after the tank is established, though I agree that smaller rocks might look nicer and offer more hiding spots for pods.

 

4)Depends on what kind. Everybody has had different levels of success, so it's hard to say. Try to find a frag that's been thriving under the same conditions.

 

5) Get a small light for the chaeto and try to keep the color temp at around 6700K for best growth.

 

6)Check out Chemi-Pure, it's a higher grade carbon mixed with some other good stuff.

 

7) Yes.

 

8) That set-up sounds good, just make sure to keep it clean.

 

9) Sounds good. Just don't be in a rush to add livestock and you shuld be fine.

 

HTH

 

 

btw- Awsome set up, man.

[baj]

Hi schaadrak and mickey85, thanks for your kind words and advice. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, it helps me a lot. So my take home message is that

 

a) my rock and sand quantity are fine as it is now. I will take the advice of using the fuge space for more cheato. The rock that really hurts the eye as far as scaping is concerned is the big rock on the top to the right. I think I'll break it up, but it has an awesome growth of purple and green coraline , anyways... How do I break it up, just whack it with a hammer?

 

b ) Thanks for the carbon suggestion, I will look into getting some chemi-pure.

 

c) About the lights, my next big upgrade will be a 18w CFL from aquatraders, and then gutting it to fit it inside the hood. I am doing a group buy with a friend so I will end up getting the light for less than 25 shipped, so thats the reason I am going for it, I know there are better lights out there but this one seems to be a good deal. My other option is to get 2 11" 10W T5s from commodity axis and cram them in the hood. It will be a tight fit if I go that route so I am leaning more towards the 18W aquatraders cfl. Of course, if some kind soul here has a light to sell that I can use, I would be grateful

 

d) I think I will stick to softies on this tank, as for polyp stonies, would a blasto be ok?

 

Update for tomorrow: measure a day's evaporation and build/configure a drip type top off

 

__________________________________

 

 

 

I am posting the cost of the system as of now, this is more to help me keep a check on myself and I hope it will benefit someone looking to start a similar system.

 

1) live rock, live sand, oceanic salt, deep 6 hydrometer, polyfilter pad = $68.00

2) 2 x 13W ahsupply.com kit = $37.77

3) chaeto = $4.20

4) AC mini = $9.99 (LFS clearance)

 

total - $119.96

 

The tank and powerhead were salvaged from an older setup. The acrylic overflow/fuge contraption is from a piece of acrylic I found, and the hood and reflector were diy'ed from scrap.

 

Future purchases:

 

1) 1 18w aquatraders CFL = < $25 shipped

[mickey85]

Most LPS should be OK in what you have. I've got a candycane in my 2.5 with a 20W screw in, and it's doing great, except for when my goofy clown goby decides he wants to sit on it

[baj]

Thanks Mickey85, I'll look into blastos and other "easy" LPS for the tank, in addition to softies.

 

~~~~~~~~~~

 

Here are some pics of the chaeto in the fuge area. I bought a small quantity after reading that chaeto grows to fill the space around it and therefore is more efficient at nutrient export.

 

Top view:

 

 

Side view:

 

 

Next update: Drip type top-off system..

[baj]

Hi,

are there any additives I need to look into buying? like seachem reef complete or something equivalent? are these all just glorified tap water or are they beneficial for a pico reef?

regards,

-b

[brandon4299]

I recommend buying one of the sets of 2 part additives, separate calcium and alkalinity components. Most if not all long-term issues with coral health (in the presence of good water change maintenance of course) in the pico reef can be traced back to incorrect dosing for these small systems. The dosing isn't like that of a larger nano, that can be dosed sometimes once weekly with these parts A and B solutions. Aged pico reefs (say 2 months+) start to accumulate acids in the water much quicker than larger nanos due to large surface areas and the resultant metabolic pathways all housed together in an incredibly small volume of water. I have seen multiple instances of 'crashing' picos that were relying solely on water changes for replenishment of Ca+++ and alk, and when the pH test were broken out, we found notable shifts from morning to evening. The subsequent systemic stresses were such that brown algae remained a problem over most surfaces and various algae were starting to gain a foothold on the system, zoanthids remained closed and it basically looked unhealthy... Pico reefs that are dosed regularly, along with consistent water changes, will grow any coral that can physically fit into them (within reason, I'm not talking clams or tubastreans or the like) but be prepared for minor color changes associated with lighting that is less-intense than metal halide on some stony coral specimens.

 

There are likely a few different ways to keep picos growing and looking like larger systems, but one way that works for sure is to purchase C-balance from marinedepot.com and dose 1/2 capfull of each additive on ALTERNATE mornings (part a on monday morning, part b on tuesday morn etc) before lights on. Skip weekends and do a full water change on the weekends, trying not to skip unless you are gone. Expect some rigid maintenance if you are going the way of the pico reef, but it ain't so bad...water changes are a snap. With this method you can keep the pico reef running for years if you'll keep it topped off accurately by whatever means...and, you remove the unpredictable nature of these tiny systems by using an approach I have used for years on about 10 different systems less than one gallon. Some people find success using change water from an existing system that has calcium and alk support...this works just as well if the change frequency is consistent and the pico reef has a very, very low bioload but in my case I don't have a larger reef and have to do it all stand alone. Good luck!@

 

B429

[schaadrak]

brandon- I like that idea, alternating the two should keep them from reacting w/each other. Nice call.

 

baj- Another good rule is don't dose what you don't test, so if you don't have them already, buy test kits for alk and Ca.

[baj]

brandon4299, excellent information. Thanks for detailing out so nicely, it is always great to hear from those who can share their experience.

schaadrak, yeah I learnt that from keeping planted tanks, things can go out of whack pretty soon there as well. I will do my water tests today and post the results and hope to learn more.

Thanks guys.

[brandon4299]

Agreed schaadrak, test before adding. The only reason I left it out in my reply was I forgot to mention this dosing covers a .5 to 1 gallon system as long as the user is using C-balance. in the .5 it will be plenty high alk and ca support (but not so much as to precipitate if added in the morning) and in the 1-1.5 it will be sufficient, but in time with new live rock and coral additions he may use up to 3/4 caps of the solutions for the larger pico. It's such a dependable dosing system (the c-balance alternate days) I haven't even tested my last 4 picos that each lived longer than a year until hardware crashes killed them for various reasons...anything outside this realm I agree we should test before guessing. Here's two pico pics using this approach, reef is 1/2 gallon.