FIRST CALL OUT THREAD

[minimalist]

p.o.t.u.s,

 

"It will not take that many No votes for me to disallow this due to the fact that it is the much stricter [sTOCK] category."

 

-Gilman

 

"18 votes is hardly a reasonable sample size. Look at the number of people participating in the contest...then consider how many responses are reasonable."

 

-p.o.t.u.s

 

As it stands, the vote count is 12 yes and 11 no. I venture to say that foam is not going to be allowed in the stock category.

 

Also, I count 45 entries and 23 votes. That's a damn good ratio of contestants to responses if you ask me.

 

On a side note, I actually voted that the foam should be allowed in the stock category.

 

-David

[Snoop]

You wont allow a guy to use foam but you let people use bigger tanks bull ****. also it is not right to make rules after the contest starts.

[Travis]

it is not right to make rules after the contest starts.

 

Even though you are an '05er, I have to agree with you

[roach0matic]

You can take a dump in your tank as long as it's not a direct modification to the hardware

 

But can you glue it to the back wall?

 

Btw - I voted to let the guy use foam. It's a damn good idea that doesn't affect the operation of the hardware.

[Reefgeek]

For the record, I voted against the bigger tanks too. One thing I can't get over here is that this is the stock catagory. The entire idea behind it is to see who's tank turns out nicer using MOSTLY THE SAME EQUIPMENT. Why are people even trying to give themselves an edge? That kind of goes against the whole spirit of the stock class. If you really feel the need to be creative and try something new, the custom catagory is waiting for you.

[p.o.t.u.s]

give it time...that's all i'm saying 17-11 now...

 

no need to rush

 

For the record, I voted against the bigger tanks too. One thing I can't get over here is that this is the stock catagory. The entire idea behind it is to see who's tank turns out nicer using MOSTLY THE SAME EQUIPMENT. Why are people even trying to give themselves an edge? That kind of goes against the whole spirit of the stock class. If you really feel the need to be creative and try something new, the custom catagory is waiting for you.

 

 

Well, I voted yea for the foam and nay for the tanks...volume IS an issue. Foam is not.

[minimalist]

give it time...that's all i'm saying 17-11 now...

 

no need to rush

Well, I voted yea for the foam and nay for the tanks...volume IS an issue. Foam is not.

 

Agreed. *begins to chant* "Foam. Foam. Foam. Foam..."

[Gilman]

No rush.

 

If the vote sways way towards yes, then obviously it will be allowed. If it sways way towards no then it will be disallowed. I do think it should take an obvious win for the foam to be allowed, since it is the stock contest, and there is some obvious strong feelings against it being used (due to lack of it being covered in the rules for stock equipment). My fault for not thinking of including it.

 

I agree there is no rush at this point (except that those who want to use or are using foam will probably be anxious to figure out what's what at this point). The other poll had around 60 votes, so lets see how many votes we get in a day or two.

 

Thanks for your participation in this vote and thread. Thanks also for not fighting about it. Lively discussion for the win.

[ZooGirl]

also it is not right to make rules after the contest starts.

 

I don't think it's making a new rule it's just clarifying the ones that are there. I think that if someone asked the question, "Can I use foam as a back to my tank?" before the contest started the answer would be yes in the CUSTOM category.

[Nednai]

I would agree but I'm guessing that the overall look of the tank will weigh heavily on the outcome.

 

I think you said it best, you would only be 'guessing'. This is why the judging rules should have been communicated before the contest started.

 

18 votes is hardly a reasonable sample size. Look at the number of people participating in the contest...then consider how many responses are reasonable.

 

p.o.t.u.s. is correct, currently a larger sample size is needed. Chi Squared P-Value: 0.1213, there's no statistical significance in the responses so far (18 to 12)

[Gilman]

Yes this is rules clarification.

[Orange Crush]

One thing I can't get over here is that this is the stock catagory. The entire idea behind it is to see who's tank turns out nicer using MOSTLY THE SAME EQUIPMENT. Why are people even trying to give themselves an edge? That kind of goes against the whole spirit of the stock class.

I disagree. Sure, you could just get a 2.5 gallon tank and a 18w Current USA Satellite fixture, but I think it's a lot more interesting to work within the stock limitations to come up with the most creative tank possible. Like the dwarf seahorse tank someone has. Light it with natural daylight. Do a coldwater tank. Or use something other than fuji rock as your primary filtration method. Which is really all he's doing.

 

You say he's got an advantage because he can hide the intake of his HOB. that's really all he's hiding. I don't see the great advantage in this. And you could do the same thing with well chosen/arranged/sculpted pieces of LR.

 

At first when I saw it, I thought no way that should be in the stock category. That was my initial gut reaction. Then, when I really thought about it, I realized he's perfectly within the stock parameters. He's just creatively making use of the materials allowed to him. If he wanted to decorate his tank with a treasure chest and an air pump, noone would say anything about that.

[Gilman]

If he wanted to decorate his tank with a treasure chest and an air pump, noone would say anything about that.

 

I would have something to say about that.

[lgreen]

As long as the physical structure of the tank is not changed, and none of the listed equipment that is regulated is modified, or any other official rule is broken by use of the foam, then there is no problem.

 

perhaps a stance should be taken on surface skimmers and false backs in the stock contest, and that would clear up some of the concern.

[cybaix]

That kind of goes against the whole spirit of the stock class. If you really feel the need to be creative and try something new, the custom catagory is waiting for you.

 

That is a very good point.

 

I don't think the foam wall will give any kind of advantage (if anything it would be a disadvantage).. but it goes against the point of the stock category. If someone can make a wall to hide the intake out of foam, why can't I make a wall out of black arcylic to hide the intake as well? Can I make shelfs to build my live rock on out of arcylic? etc etc.. If foam is allowed then it defeats the purpose of having a stock tank.

 

 

 

 

 

As long as the physical structure of the tank is not changed, and none of the listed equipment that is regulated is modified, or any other official rule is broken by use of the foam, then there is no problem.

 

perhaps a stance should be taken on surface skimmers and false backs in the stock contest, and that would clear up some of the concern.

 

 

but that is just it.. I mean what if I was to completely seal a section of my tank off with foam? I could then use it as an overflow and modify the back of the foam to skim and nobody would know about it.

 

You say he's got an advantage because he can hide the intake of his HOB. that's really all he's hiding. I don't see the great advantage in this. And you could do the same thing with well chosen/arranged/sculpted pieces of LR.

 

Its not an issue about what that one person is doing per say.. its an issue with allowing foam and someone abusing it (IE.. make shift surface skimmer, overflow, etc).

[roach0matic]

If he wanted to decorate his tank with a treasure chest and an air pump, noone would say anything about that.

 

And the Roach idiot pico was born. *frantically looking for socks and a non-broken 2.5*

[p.o.t.u.s]

That is a very good point.

 

I don't think the foam wall will give any kind of advantage (if anything it would be a disadvantage).. but it goes against the point of the stock category. If someone can make a wall to hide the intake out of foam, why can't I make a wall out of black arcylic to hide the intake as well? Can I make shelfs to build my live rock on out of arcylic? etc etc.. If foam is allowed then it defeats the purpose of having a stock tank.

but that is just it.. I mean what if I was to completely seal a section of my tank off with foam? I could then use it as an overflow and modify the back of the foam to skim and nobody would know about it.

Its not an issue about what that one person is doing per say.. its an issue with allowing foam and someone abusing it (IE.. make shift surface skimmer, overflow, etc).

 

 

You missed the point. He is NOT making a surface skimmer. He is NOT sealing off a compartment. If he were, that would be not allowed. Your arguement therefore is moot!

 

Just becasue he COULD do something improper with foam(use foam to build a skimmer) does not prohibt him from using foam entirely. Example: Just because I could run my mailman over in my car does not mean I cannot have a car because I COULD do it...even if no one saw me!

[Reefgeek]

Did you even look at the pics potus? He IS sealing off an area with the foam! Cybiax asked if he could do this exact thing in another topic and it has not been answered yet.

[p.o.t.u.s]

You wont allow a guy to use foam but you let people use bigger tanks bull ****.

 

AMEN!

 

Did you even look at the pics potus? He IS sealing off an area with the foam! Cybiax asked if he could do this exact thing in another topic and it has not been answered yet.

 

 

Quoting Melborne: "Here is my first attempt at a foam background - mainly to hide the intake of the HOB and to provide more of a reef wall effect in such a narrow tank. "

 

I saw the pics...I think the better question to ask is are we looking at the same pics? I see the foam, and I don't see any area sealed off. It is right against the tank wall.

[Reefgeek]

 

You can clearly see where the foam is sealed against both the side and back of the tank. How is this not a sealed off section?

[p.o.t.u.s]

if water can get into the intake...since that is what it is...it is not a sealed off section. If it were a sealed off section, the HOB filter would not work.

[Reefgeek]

Oh dear god man... its going to flow OVER the foam. Surface skimmer??? /em throws up hands in disgust and walks away.

[p.o.t.u.s]

Oh dear god man... its going to flow OVER the foam. Surface skimmer??? /em throws up hands in disgust and walks away.

.

 

I see your point, but I believe he said this is not a surface skimmer. If it is, then it is not allowed. That being said, If it did surface skim we wouldn't even be having this vote! It would be a closed case! The fact that the issue is even here means it is not a surface skimmer otherwise the mods would have DQ'ed it...

[Gilman]

You wont allow a guy to use foam but you let people use bigger tanks bull ****.

 

The UK reefers poll had just over 60 votes and over 50 voted to allow them in the contest one way or another. Call bs if you want, but those were easy to translate numbers for me.

 

The use of foam in the [sTOCK] category is also up for a vote. Hopefully the numbers will be as easy to translate here.

 

[ZooGirl]

 

You can clearly see where the foam is sealed against both the side and back of the tank. How is this not a sealed off section?

 

 

It appears to not only be a false back to hide equipment but also an overflow. How nice!