1 water change since march

[eferna]

I know I am gonna get a lot of people who disagree on what i have to say, but I am running a 10Gal reef and have only done a water change once since march. However, I do have a prizim protein skimmer on there that runs throughout the day.

[BCOrchidGuy]

Are you topping off evaporated water?

 

Are you adding suppliments?

 

How is your live stock handling this?

 

Lot of people have gone this route and have reported mixed results.

[tinyreef]

w/c's

previous office nano (5g-one year old)-last june (?)

 

display tank (72g-4 yr old)-spring 2001

 

hospital tank (20g-3 yr old)-never X)

 

pico (48 oz.-5 mos. old)-never :x (looks it tho)

 

regular dosing, skimming (except pico), semi-regular top offs.

 

disclaimer: don't try this, i didn't start out saying 'no w/c's'. in fact, i used to wc 5~15% a week on my main tank until i got fed up with it. i still recommend wc's for at least the first year of a reef. after then each individual can figure out if they need it imo. :

 

edit: actually, i may have made a wc on the office nano when it got ammonia'd (poisoned) and my squamosa died but it's not in my notes. i don't think i did but that would've been my knee jerk reaction. hmmm ???

[spoondigity]

Ya I have a friend who keeps 7 active reef tanks anywhere from 20-75 gallons and he doesn't do changes on his either. He runs really good skimmers. He does top the tanks off and things have been running fine for his tanks for several years. It probably really depends on the setup and what is in the tank.

[eferna]

Yeah I top off with RO water daily.

I do add supplements(calcium, Iodine and another cant remember the name right now) cause my protein skimmer takes away most of them. Corraline growth is covering 3/4 of the tank right now.

 

Corals are growing good. I have a Bubble, greenstar polyps, mushrroms, and brown polyps as well as a leather( which is growing crazy)

I can send some pics if you like later on.

[BCOrchidGuy]

As long as you are using suppliments it can be done, the only other concern I can think of off the top of my head would be nitrate build up.

[eferna]

well with one small clown i dont think there would be a nitrate problem. I Also have those blue-leg hermits that clean up the substrate good.

[kimura]

Man that's a long time with no W/C's. I'm curious as to how long you could go without one????????

 

It's funny that this come up since it was mentioned on another post.

 

Buy anyways, I recently purchased a Knop skimmer and was concidering not doing my weekly water changes and try to go either bi-weekly then if things look well, move on to monthly. It's a good point to mention about the blue-leg crab since removing all un-eaten food would be a significant problem. I'm now considering a more diverse clean up crew. I'll also have to automate my water top off and of course continue with supplemental additives ie, B-ionic, Iodide, stro, and myo.

 

I can't wait to try this:D

[Korbin]

Ugh.

 

I do a 1 to 2 gallon waterchange on my 12 gallon tank once per week. I don't add supplements tho. Saves me $$$$$.

 

I think not doing waterchanges is like not flushing your toilet. Sure you can grow enough mildew (algae?) and bacteria in your bathroom to remove nutrients. But cripes! Just flush it and make everybody happier.

[NanoReefer53]

Yeup, only 1. And that's because I felt guilty plus I was adding in new corals so just in case. So far i've seen no bad effects. My water tests out perfect and I get little or no algae growth. Only thing I dose it b-ionic and kalk. I run a HOB Excalibur skimmer. In the long run, I don't think it would be good due to a build up of cr@p but I only have 2 more years for my tank until i'm off to college. Then it's probably time for a 2g nano

[tinyreef]

korbin,

that was a most disturbing image. :x

 

actually, dr. jean jaubert supposedly has a 17 year old tank that hasn't had a wc for the last five years!

 

he's doing a true 'recycling reef' tho. he's not dosing at all! only food, light, and top off (freshwater only). i think he's depending upon the aragonite dissolution and food input to balance the system.

[BCOrchidGuy]

WHAT ABOUT IODIDE!!!!!!!

 

sorry was that out loud? lol.. jeez a fully closed system... hey anyone want to try building your own distillation unit on the hood and recycle your evaporated water for a "Closed system".

 

Tiny, I wonder what kinds of live stock he is keeping in that tank, I know aragonite releases strontium but what about all the other stuff....

[NanoReefer53]

Iodine can actual be supplemented from the foods you feed your fish so depending on how much u feed u might not even have to dose iodine.

 

o wait, just realised u said "iodide". i have no idea, is that even necessary for a reef ? Sometimes I wonder if all these chemicals are really necessary or do any effect ?

[BCOrchidGuy]

In sea water Iodine is in its ionic form..."Iodide" same thing just different

[printerdown01]

BCOrchid, brandon runs some completely closed system picos, check them out. This guy is WAY better at this than I would ever strive to be.

 

P.S. I have been LONG stretches without preforming water changes on my 12 gallon. BEFORE I had the fuge. Now that it is even more stable I have not a clue how long I could go. However, I now dose with phyto, and probably dose a little too much... I do however run g.a.c. on the tank the vast majority of the time. These things really aren't as unstable as people make them out to be, ONCE they are established -just like any tank! A 55 gallon will not be FULLY stable until about the 9-12 month mark. After this period algae is almost unheard of. I don't see any reason to believe that it would be any different in a nano. Also, one of my most lenghty posts EVER, was on this subject. Often times people will confuse the concept of something that is "not nessicary" like g.a.c, u/v sterilization, chillers, and skimming with the idea of useless... There is a HUGE difference! If you have a fuge, run g.a.c, use a skimmer, and add supplements to the tank your tank, make no mistake WILL be more stable! -just my 2 cents...

 

p.s. I don't have a skimmer, nor a chiller, nor U/V sterilization, nor MH lighting, nor a cryptic zone... the list goes on and on... it is up to the hobbiest to decide at what point he/she is done trying to mimic the ocean, but the more you do the better off you will be. Well, unless you make it too complicated: KISS can often be of use, to prevent mishaps .

[sjpresley]

For those of you that don't do WC's, do you have any leathers that are notorius for emitting allelopathic chemicals? And how heavily are your systems stocked?

 

I have 2 Sinularia and a Capnella in my 10G, eventually my Montipora frags all stopped opening. Eric Borneman identified the leather exudates as the probable cause and recommended WC's. After 3, 15% WC's over a week the Montipora are starting to open again. I usually do about 10% every week or two. I skim 24/7.

 

Skimmers don't remove everything, in fact there are a lot of things they don't remove. Believe it or not in recent experiments, there was no evidence skimming significantly reduced iodine/iodide levels either. Just another old reefer's tale hindering advancement.

 

Why do people say they do WC's instead of supplements to save $$? Salt and good water for WC's cost way more than supplements and take a lot longer to perform. What am I not getting here?

[tinyreef]

steve,

for me it started as just plain lazyness. it has since evolved into possibly dispelling another "old reefer's tale hindering advancement", as you put it. wc's have their place and should be practiced at certain points (1st year) and setups but not necessarily across the board as most would advocate. just like skimming is also not universally advocated.

 

i skim, algae scrub, and use carbon so that does limit chemical 'pollution'. altho i recently stopped skimming on my display tank (skimmer finally gave out X) ) but i have found most of my 'evolutions' come thru situations (i.e. screwups or potential disasters) like that so i haven't yet actively replaced my broken skimmer.

 

i don't think 'no wc's' are to save money since our livestock and time invested far outweigh it but perhaps another 'evolution' of the hobby. like i mentioned in another post, this is the next BIG controversial maelstrom on the horizon imo. maybe the storm is hitting sooner than i thought. salt companies WILL be taking sides here. X) (sorry mdp)

[BCOrchidGuy]

I dunno Tiny I think there is enough people who believe that water changes are vital. I don't mind doing them but yep I do miss the odd one here and there. I would just be afraid I would come home from work and find my tank(s) melted down. I would be heart broken. If you can get a regiment of feeding etc to maintain your water conditions with out water changes thats great, I don't see a problem with it as long as your animals aren't suffering. I think what it boils down to is that I don't trust myself to do it right and I use water changes as one of MY crutches.

[eferna]

Okay let me add something here, I dont think that your corals are going to be dead overnight. At any sign of "bad water" the most that will happen is that your corals will close up and droop etc..

 

I do not think that I am doing anything wrong by not doing a water change. If a water change is needed then I will do it.

Why fix something when it is not broke?

[Pikelet]

If you have an efficient skimmer running 24/7, refugium, carbon, feed the right types of food and have the right combination of corals, fish and cleaners in your tank, it can probably survive happily without water changes for a considerable amount of time after the first year or two.

 

Claims of a closed system are clearly false though. If you add or exchange anything from the outside, it ain't closed. Think air, think food inputs, think supplements, think electricity and you'll discover that these systems are not closed at all.

 

I believe fewer water changes has some merit in terms of minimizing the buildup of heavy metals in the tank but much depends on the tank components. Some tanks MUST have water changes to do well, others are more self-sustaining. On balance, however, I think water changes are recommended for the vast majority of tanks. Think of it as insurance albeit rather expensive insurance with the cost of marine salt as it is.

[tinyreef]

just wanted to clear something up.

 

"certain points and setups", definitely NOT all or even majority or large minority (for that matter) is what i meant. (and what i thought i wrote : )

 

 

pike,

while dr. jaubert's system does include food and light (and top offs) but i would still consider that a 'closed or recycling reef', just mo tho. a 'true closed system' is like that tiny biosphere project (not the big one) that NASA developed.

 

basically, it was a hermetically sealed glass sphere with a couple of tiny snails, brine shrimp, algae sprig, and select bacteria in water. it supposedly (when set in indirect sunlight) could function as a true 'closed system' for six months or something before the inevitable total crash because biomass buildup still reached and surpassed 'critical mass'.

 

it was supposed to symbolize our planet but the research was for space travel i believe (e.g. what was the smallest food chain or biotope sustainable).

[apophis924]

Is it possible that your make up water, supplements and the act of maintaning your salinity, is in effect a water change. With the smal volume of a 10 gal tank with a skimmer. One would think that emptying the skimmate cup (which is not the same as evaporation because it contains salt) And replacing that water loss would be just like a small water change, Over time those little changes would add up. To me it seems like doing a water chage but with a concentrated form of tank water i.e.- the skimmate.

Just a thought, I know on my tank when i get lazy i make my skimmer produce a very light skimmate and siphon that off and just add new make up water. the result is a very small but beneficial water change.

[Xavier]

I have one of these.. EcoSphere.. it's been running successfully for two years now..

 

http://www.eco-sphere.com

[Dave ESPI]

I can't wait till people get to the samelevel of experience I have.... they will understand my position so much better.

 

PRINTERDOWN SAID IT BEST.. JUST WHAT HE SAID, Ive said before, just not so well and I was more to the point.

 

 

IE:Don't be stupid.