clownfish

[brandonlouis]

Originally posted by pfannin

Well like I said I am new.  And I have had a NUMBER of very experienced people tell me that a pair of perc clowns in a 15 gallon would be perfectly fine.

 

It certainly seems that everybody on here thinks they are the difinitive experts on a any given livestock.

 

And FYI, I don't do anything without investigating it thouroughly.  Once I have finished reading several sources, if more say its a bad idea then I don't do it.

 

I do not claim to be an expert on any particular livestock. I do, however, make a consistent effort to research a species before I add it to a captive enviroment. I have never seen any reputable, educated source site that it is advisable to put two clowns in a 12g tank. In fact, the majority of sources advise at least 10 gallons for a perc, and many say 20. The False perc requires even more space. To site a web forum as an example of proper animal care is insane, especially when there is a substantial amount of (researched) information out there that flatly says it is wrong.

 

Yes, you could "fit" 2 clowns in a 12g (plus LR, coral and substrate), but you are doing nothing less than cruelly forcing an animal into a cramped enviroment for your own amusement.

 

I don't blame you, I blame Finding Nemo.

[Cellenzweig]

Hey Guys,

Someone I work with told me about Nano Reefs the other day and totally got me interested. I don't own a big place and it is just what I have been dreaming of. For the last 3 days I have been reading threads and oogling tanks like a mad man. I even stopped by the library and picked up a couple recommended books. I AM HOOKED. It's pretty daunting learning all of the lingo (and for some reason I can't get the damn glossary to work) and seeing the amount of work involved, but still, I want to do this. I have some experience with freshwater, nothing crazy, just a couple small (20g) community tanks, but I do have a basic understanding of cycling.

A few days ago you heard about nano reefs, and now you're giving advice and criticizing??

 

To site a web forum as an example of proper animal care is insane, especially when there is a substantial amount of (researched) information out there that flatly says it is wrong.

Really? So I guess the EXPERIENCE gained by thousands of reefers is meaningless in comparison. Maybe we should dismiss NR.com, Reefcentral, etc as nothing more than meaningless chatter between bored hobbiest?

 

About a decade ago there was a substantial amount of (researched) information that showed a wet/dry filter was necessary for a healthy reef. How many people use them now? Back then, it was basically impossible to keep most SPS alive in an aquarium. Is that still the case? It's not impossible for researched info to be incorrect, infact, in this hobby it is disproven very frequently.

 

Clownfish aren't exactly big swimmers, so why this need for a large tank? Maybe bioload was an issue in the past, but with the use of liverock, refugiums, skimmers and other filtration (chemi-pure, phosphate sponges, etc), that isn't really an issue any more. So maybe you can explain their suffering?

[pfannin]

So first you threaten to beat me with a book and now you are calling me insane. Nice, brandonlouis.

 

IF you talk to any experienced reeefer I am sure that they will tell you just how quickly "research" gets out-of-date in this hobby. As far as books, they are great for general information and identification, but they don't keep up with best practices in reef husbandry.

 

And note that I am not saying that you are wrong, but you are acting like the be all and end all of reef knowlege, despite saying that you are not. You have information saying one thing, I have information to the contrary. That is absolutely no reason to make abusive statements toward me.

[jjjo]

Clownfish need at least a 250g for themselves, they swim around so much and get to be so large that nothign smaller will work. After all, they will swim about 8 inches from their host coral.

 

The weird thing is i have a pair in my 12g and they are doing great! Sheesh i must be breaking all kind of rules by having them in there.

 

are u nuts! i think that clowns need at least a 15... not a 250. maybe with an anemone they need a 250...

 

and btw... i like tomato clowns.. true percs... clarkii clowns... cinnomin (spelling. lol) clowns... maroon clowns... saddleback clowns.. and bluestripe (which i would never try to keep (not a good enough aquarist yet). those are my favorites. i dont care for oceleris clowns. they are bland in color... compared to some of the other clowns.

[scd]

Two clowns in a nano is a bad idea in my opinion. One will become the female and grow large -- not good in a nano.

 

On the other hand, I have had my single false perc since 1999. For about 5.5 years he was in a 15L and about six months ago I upgraded to a 20R. This 6+ year old clown is 3 inches long and has been that size for roughly 3-4 years. That's the benefit of keeping a single clown!! It will stay smaller, that is what is necessary in a nano and why I would never get a second clown while I have a small tank. Nor would I recommend any other nanoreefer keep 2 clowns. But I think I have been very successful keeping a false perc in a 15g.

 

Note: for most of that time I only kept one fish. I added a bicolor blenny when I got the 20G.

[Cellenzweig]

are u nuts! i think that clowns need at least a 15... not a 250. maybe with an anemone they need a 250...

LoL... I think it was sarcasm...

[pfannin]

Well with true percs the max size of even a female is around 3" from what I have read. False perc females will get up to 4" Also I know breeders place them in 10 gallon tanks...not that it means it is a best practice by any means.

 

I am still researching and just sharing what I have found.

[minimalist]

*throws a bucket of sarcasm on jjjo* LOLLERSKATES

 

By the way, that's a very good point that on this very site they list the minimum tank size for both true and false percs at 7g.

[brandonlouis]

Originally posted by Cellenzweig

A few days ago you heard about nano reefs, and now you're giving advice and criticizing??

 

Really? So I guess the EXPERIENCE gained by thousands of reefers is meaningless in comparison. Maybe we should dismiss NR.com, Reefcentral, etc as nothing more than meaningless chatter between bored hobbiest?

 

First of all, that was a post made by my brother, who is in fact, new to nano-reefs. I was the one who showed him this site. He later came to me asking about clownfish, and I read around and saw how common it was to jam them in to tiny tanks.

 

I have owned aquariums for almost 20 years, and ten of those years have been primarily a saltwater system.

 

I stand by my earlier statement that it is wrong to keep certain species in a nano setting. Certain clowns in certain sizes I would include. Yes, there are examples of people on the above websites you mention, but personal anecdotes do not make science. Any evidence out there outside of web forums fortifies my claims.

 

Obviously, this topic has a great many people angry. You have every right to be as indignant as I do.

 

Am I a marine expert? Obviously not. Can I read? Yes. I suggest many more of you do the same. There is a wealth of information out there beyond the scope of this latest niche of aquaria.

[brandonlouis]

and pfannin, I apologize if you felt threatened by my book beating rant. I in no way plan to hit you with book, newspaper, magazine, encyclopedia, dictionary, thesaurus, periodical, or any other piece of moveable press.

 

Please excuse my poor form.

[Cellenzweig]

Once again... and feel free to use all that evidence out there outside of web forums that fortifies your claims.

Clownfish aren't exactly big swimmers, so why this need for a large tank? Maybe bioload was an issue in the past, but with the use of liverock, refugiums, skimmers and other filtration (chemi-pure, phosphate sponges, etc), that isn't really an issue any more. So maybe you can explain their suffering?

 

First of all, that was a post made by my brother, who is in fact, new to nano-reefs.

So which one of you is Brandon Louis?

[Steve973]

I think there's both good and bad information on hobby discussion boards. But all of the evidence is anecdotal, so you can't quote somebody's post as proof of anything. On message boards, you have people with wildly differing levels of expertise, experience, and equipment. I always caution people when they are starting out and want to pack a small aquarium with fish.

[susieq]

A clownfish needs a 250g? Even Shamu doesn't get treated that good at Sea World.

[Caesar777]

Ugh...Don't bring up Sea World. They're not exactly innovative in the marine aquarium field...Especially when it comes to marine mammals.

[Cetra324]

Originally posted by Caesar777

Ugh...Don't bring up Sea World. They're not exactly innovative in the marine aquarium field...Especially when it comes to marine mammals.

 

You know, I went to Orlando Seaworld last week for my 20th birthday? Went there almost specifically to visit my favorite display, "The Living Reef" exhibit? Been my favorite since I was 2 or so.

 

The whole thing has been turned into a restaurant. In fact, 19 out of 20 buildings are now restaurants or gift shops. The ONLY fish I saw in the entire theme park were in the tiny "aquarium" in the Atlantis roller coaster gift shop. No fish in the manatee display, no fish in the sting ray tank, no fish anywhere. Oh, I'm sorry, there were a few red drums and some barracuda still in the shark display. =

 

Ugh. I've decided never to visit my favorite theme park again.

 

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread...