Do your worst! Need suggestions...

[IHaveGreyhounds]

Ok, so awhile back I decided to try my first saltwater tank as a small reef tank. I am new to saltwater, but not to aquaria in general. I have six healthy freshwater tanks ranging from 20 – 90 gallons. So after much reading here is what I have created. A few of the items were not bought specifically for this tank, but in the interest of saving some money I used what I had (yeah, that is a lot of heater for a 15 gallon tank, and yes those lights were just borrowed from other tanks).

 

Below I have every spec I could think of about where I am at now. The tank is still cycling and is still a learning experience for me. I have done a lot of reading, here and elsewhere and I think everything I have done was based on something I read somewhere. As a newcomer the most overwhelming thing is the variety of opinions out there. Some which contradict each other completely. So here are my questions:

 

1) Have I made any major foul ups? Anything I just have to fix immediately that I just missed completely?

 

2) What should be the next thing(s) I should spend money on to replace or add to this system?

 

3) Once the tank finishes cycling any suggestions for good beginner organisms? I know one big factor here will be if I replace the lighting (which is likely… if I could only decide on what to get). What organisms could do well under my low light conditions that I currently have?

 

4) I know this gets asked all the time, but what lights would you put on this tank? I’d like the lighting to be able to meet the needs of a range of organisms, but money is a factor here. I am hoping to spend in the neighborhood of $200, and that seems to rule out some of the really nice high end stuff. Any ideas? Or for that matter, how many watts of light would be a good goal considering the max depth is about 9 inches?

 

5) Any other suggestions/comments/concerns?

 

Thanks for any input! :-)

 

 

---------------------Details ----------------------

 

Setup date: 11/9/02

 

15 Gallon (12” x 12” x 24”)

 

15 lbs of aragonite base

20 lbs of Nature’s Ocean live sand

3 – 4” sand bed/ 8 – 9” water depth

 

6 lbs of Brazilian “light” live rock (great looking stuff)

12 lbs of Fiji live rock

 

Current Residents:

2 Blue legged hermit crabs

1 small brittle star that came with the rock

Misc live rock critters, lots of feather dusters, some stringy algae.

 

Fluval 404 filter

No skimmer

 

4 watts per gallon

- 20 Watt 6000K Actinic

- 20 Watt 6000K Actinic

- 20 Watt Coralife 50/50

 

1 x 550 Marineland Powerhead

 

Ebo-Jager 200 Watt heater

 

Instant Ocean salt = 1.023

Temp 79.5 F

pH = 8.3

Ammonia = 0.5 (still cycling)

Nitrite = 0.0

Nitrate = 0.0

Alkalinity = “Normal”

 

Plans:

More hermit crabs

Astrea Snails

2 x Tank raised Percula

2 x Shrimp (my wife wants the vivid red ones, I don’t know the variety yet… or anything about them)

Some hardy invertebrates (still looking for suggestions)

[Crakeur]

that's a lot of sand. You might want to consider removing the sand that is under the rock. Leave the rock on the glass and the sand around it. (wish I had done that better when I did mine).

[MacnReef]

Well, first off, I would lower the sand level a little, in a nano, such a large sand bed is not as important. Second, try to hide your heater and filter hoses with the live rock, it looks much better. Also, I would get more live rock, and fill it in a little, but make caves for your fish to swim through. Finally, for the shrimp, I would go with a cleaner, it helps with parasites on fish and cleans very well.

 

Besides that, your on your way.

 

Oh, BTW, you may have 4 watts per gallon, but it is NO lights. If you wanted to upgrade something, it would be your lights. I would switch over to two 55 or 65 watt powercompacts. Your tank would be much brighter and corals would be happier. Now, all of this is useless info if you are planning on all low light corals, i.e. mushrooms.???

[Crakeur]

if your wife wants shrimp, a pair of cleaners are probably better than the red ones. You can also get a pair of peppermints and hope that they take care of any aiptasia you might get. Peps are actually find of fine to watch. They sit in one spot and sway back and forth until they come out to feed. Cleaners, on the other hand, are much more fun. They will, in time, crawl right up your arm, looking for parasites to pick off.

[BCOrchidGuy]

I would loose a few pounds of sand and go with a 100watt heater at the most. The Ebo's are great heaters but when it comes on it will heat your tank in a heart beat, you may find it causes a temp fluctuation to quickly.

[Dave ESPI]

No, J/K it looks good.

 

your DSB is fine... a tad over kill, but fine. Add more rock, hide the heater / smaller one. 75 watts should be more than enough. I am a tad concerned with the canister. They can become nutrient sumps and fuel algae blooms if not cleaned religiously ( and we ALL get lazy... myself included)

The lighting is ok also, infact as long as you dont go over softies, shrooms and polyps that are accustomed to low light, you will be fine. I too have a similar tank lit with Just NO's and it runs fine.

Up grade to PC later if you wish.

[IHaveGreyhounds]

Ok, a few more weeks and the tank seems to be close to done cycling. I'll do a complete run of the water tests again tonight and post them. A couple days back the ammonia level had dropped very low. But I need to test it again...

 

Issues:

 

Algae - Once the tank got settled for awhile this fast growing brown stuff moved in. It overgrows the sand and rocks. I have been blowing it off the rocks with a large eyedropper so that it doesn't take over them. Is this just a natural part of the tank getting established? It grows back with a vengenace every few days.

 

The canister filter - this is the only thing I put on this tank without really researching. When I put in my sand it kicked so much grime into the water that I put it on to clear that up. But it is still on there. Should I just take it off? If not what kind of media do I want inside it? Will this tank be able to go filterless and skimmerless, just relying on frequent water changes? I read a lot here about filterless tanks, but then my LFS has a beatiful 29 gal reef running with a canister filter on it.

 

Skimmer - do I want one? At the moment the surface of my water builds up oily looking grime that I "skim" off when I do the water changes. Is this stuff normal? bad? will it go away? or is this what a skimmer is for? The water is crystal clear except for this. That and right after I finish blowing all the algae off the rocks.

 

Clean up crew - When, who and how many?

 

The sand for now I think I am going to leave the way it is. It looks nice, and as far as I can tell from anyones' posts, it isn't doing any more harm than just displacing some water.

 

 

All in all everything in there looks healthy. More and more appears out of the live rock. The hermits are cruising around doing their thing. For the moment I am in a holding pattern in regards to upgrading the lights and I am just figuring that I won't put anything in there that needs more light till I get it.

 

Thanks for any ideas!

[RVMcCarthy]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but I would get a skimmer. A skimmer is extremely important for maintaining water quality! Also, to help keep nitrates and phosphates down, get some macro algae and keep it trimmed back.

[BCOrchidGuy]

Good that you are keeping on top of your water tests, best to write them down, keep a small note pad or note book and check your water a couple times a week for now, in a while you will probably cut back to once a week, but WRITE down what your readings are.

 

The brown algae is probably diatom algae, is it really small kind of abrassive feeling or is it slimey or stringy? Most tanks go through some algae bloom of one sort or another when new.

 

I would increase the number of clean up workers, alot of people suggest 1 per gallon. Personally I would have them in at the first sign of algae growth just so they can keep on top of it. Don't go with all blue legged hermits though, get some scarlet legged, get a mix of snails etc as some will eat different algaes.

 

The canister filter can be left on, you can add something like base rock chunks or just coarse coral gravel, or you can leave it empty and just use it for circulation.

 

Skimmer, well the choice is yours, you can use one or rely on frequent water changes. As discussed in a recent post here, a skimmer can be invaluable if something goes wrong in your tank while you are at work etc... It isn't a cure all, nor should it be used as a crutch it removes organics from the water but it also removes some good stuff like Iodide etc.

 

My $0.02 worth.

[chvynva916]

Everything looks pretty good (I pretty much would agree with the comments about adding a few more lbs of LR and maybe removing some LS but no big deal). My one suggestion would be to not go with the "red" shrimp. The only red shrimp I know of is the Camel Shrimp which is notorious for eating corals. Good luck!

[harbingerofthefish]

Lighting wise Dave's right on the polyps/softies, if you wanted upgrade(given room) just slap a 50/50 55 watt in there and rock on.

 

Just me personaly, but I would probally rearrange the rock work. Stack it a little more. Give some space between the pieces and create little caves and such. As for adding more now, I would probally hold off a little. When you buy corals at the LFS they are already attached to some kind of rock. If you completely fill the rock up how you like it, then you get a new coral/new rock, you might find a whole redecorating job is in order. Today I came home with a nice zoo rock. I had to hire a designer to find a place to put it.

 

 

As for hiding the heater, you could get 2 mini compact 50 watters. Place them vertical in the corners. I have mine that way and although out in the open, a lot less intrusive.

[Caesar]

you might want to try a red pistol shrimp and a watchman goby. This way your wife gets her red shrimp and you get to watch the shrimp/goby relationship.

[IHaveGreyhounds]

This is such a great forum. I have really enjoyed all the comments on aestetics. Not that I can necessarily use all of them, but it is just such an interesting aspect of nano-reefing that I am seeing. I keep oscars in my 90 gallon freshwater tank and I read some forums that revolve around those big fish. It is funny but that forum tends to have a sort of "damn the aestectics" attitude. Not everyone there, but some people seem to have a much higher tolerance of having webs of piping going in and out of their tanks. Much more artistry in the comments here.

 

Anyway. Ideas I have really liked today:

 

1) The two 50W ebo-jagers are going to happen. That big heater was just what I had handy, been meaning to downgrade to a 75W, but I like the idea of having 2 smaller heaters in case of one failing.

 

2) I am still looking at these rocks trying to decide what I like best. I had thought of the fact that more rock might be added with specimens and that is why it isn't topped off. I am also keeping the rock back from the front by about 3 inches to allow me to do a good job cleaning the front glass.

 

3) I got 2 astraea snails today, and 5 more small blue legged hermits. These five were A LOT smaller than my first two. I asked for (and paid for) four of them, the guy gave me 5 "just in case" two of them have shown no signs of life since they got home. So we'll see. How fast do they grow? Do I need to toss a handful of potential shells in there for them?

 

4) That shrimp/goby idea is a good one. The shrimp my wife saw that she likes are "fire shrimp" But those red pistols look reasonably similiar. I still know nothing about these fire shrimp. I need to look them up.

 

5) Silly question, but it is also in the interest of keeping my very understanding wife intersted in and excited about my tanks. At our LFS we spotted some very, well, cubic fish. Their name completely eludes me now, but they looked like boxes with tails. These fish were fairly large though (about 4") Does anyone know of a species that has the very think box like body form, but is a size that would be ok in a lightly stocked 15 gallon? My wife adored them. She just thought they were the cutest things.

 

6) Yep I have been keeping records of the water tests. Here are tonights:

 

S.G. = 1.023

NH3/NH4 = Lingering right around 0.5ppm

Nitrite 0.0

Nitrate 0.0

temp = 80

pH = 8.3

 

These lead me to think I was being overly optimistic about my cycling. It has been only a month though. I would have bet that ammonia would have been lower than 0.5.

 

OK, filters and skimmers. If only I were made of money I'd go all out here but this is not the case. I am leaning towards the idea of taking off the canister altogether, though filling it with base rock sounded interesting I don't know if it would do enought to make it worthwhile or not... Right now it has plastic bioball widgets and filter sponge. Are these profoundly dumb? useless? harmful?

 

As far as skimmers, I am beginning to lean towards one. I have read what people say about skilters and I don't think I want to go there. But pricewise is there something that is like once step up from the skilter that anyone would recommend?

 

Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

[chvynva916]

The fish you described sounds like a cowfish. I don't think that would be a good option, they grow up to 18 inches (depending on the species, there are smaller options) and prefer much larger tanks. In addition, they are venomous and are difficult to care for.

 

BTW, this is only what I have read. I just posted in case nobody with more experience posts you aren't left in the dark completely.

[Dave ESPI]

Greyhound, You can OBVIOUSLY post with intelegence, For that I applaud you. (there are a lot of 'tards hanging around) OFFENCE INTENDED TO THOSE WHO FEAL GUILTY.

My one point more of advice, READ a few more older pages of post, and a few do a few more searches. It will ease yer mind.

You seem on the path of "the reichous" (I spelled it badly) yet need guidance as yer uncertianty is obviously of question.

Give it time. Reefing is a "Learned" ideology.

[appstateguy]

when it comes to reefing... one word... "strategery"

[IHaveGreyhounds]

"Is for people to read and do research before posting. "

 

Very very good point. I know there is a fine line between good questions and boring message board stuff that gets asked over and over. I was reading this site (and others) a good month before I bought anything. And another month before I posted anything.

 

Now in defense of the newbie. Because there is no one "right" way to make one of these tanks, there is so much conflicting information. This leaves the newbie (me) feeling like now that they are knee deep in the project, and probably several hundred $s, that we need some sort of validation that we are on the right track. I would love to hear from some people saying things like, "yep I have done exactly what you are doing and it did (or didn't) work. It is a little more reassuring than reading some articles and posts that are about systems that are almost sort of like what you are making.

 

Yep, looking at my last post, in a stream of thought I did throw out several questions I could have researched a little better. (like the hermit crab ones) I guess all I can say is if they are that obvious, ignore them and I will have to go look them up later and will probably find what I need.

 

But in the meantime I would love to find a site with a really comprehensive discussion of reef filtration/skimming. I have looked long and hard on that one. Yes, this site has an article on it that talks about one method. But it does so while only barely comparing or discussing alternatives. Even within Tullock's book there are wildly different ideas tossed around about what might work. But most of his filtration is geared big, not nano.

 

I hope this isn't taken as a flame. Just kicking around ideas about how message boards end up working. I do really appreciate the time and and thought that people have been generous enough to pass along.

[RVMcCarthy]

I wouldn't worry about your questions. They were valid questions and well worth asking. Not everyone knows how to search a forum, nor does everyone have the time to do so (sifting through hundreds of posts to find an answer to one question is akin to standing in line for one hour at a grocery store to buy a single apple).

 

Personally, I started on much the same path you did. I read a lot of boards, talked to a lot of people and made my decisions. Some decisions have been for good, some for not quite as good, but so far none have been bad (well, except maybe buying a Berlin Classic for a 20 gal tank hehe). I think you are doing fine. Your tank should work out great! Only thing I'd do is add a skimmer. This thread seems to have yielded some great advice for you so do some thinking and decide what is best for yourself.

 

As long as your questions haven't been answered in a post within the last few days I don't believe most people would have a problem with it. If anyone does, it is usually due to forum "nazism" or some other form of egoism or arrogance. Ignore them.

 

*edit*

 

Forgot to give you a link. You've probably got it already, but if you don't go here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/

You should be able to find answers to almost any of your questions either in their FAQs or on their message boards (http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/).

 

Good luck to you!