I always want to buy more stuff ...

[jtown]

I have 2 x 55 W of lighting on my 20 Long, but I find myself wanting to get another set of 2x 55 PCs. Overkill?

[HuBu]

scrap the PCs and go get either VHOs or metal halide. so if you ever upgrade the tank, you already have lighting for it.

[jtown]

ya, I actually thought about that, but my hood isn't high enough. I only have about 3 inches of clearance form the water ... maybe 4. I designed it kinda bad, but I ddidn't like the top hat look.

[HuBu]

well i have no idea how you are gonna fit 4 55W PCs under it. but the lighting wouldnt be an over kill. i would worry more about the temp of the water if your hood is only a few inches from the water surface.

[jtown]

ya, 2 fit fine, but it get's a little hot. 4 would get really hot, but I think I'd only have them on for a few hours a day and also do some atinic timing etc.

[Kapelakin]

Do you have a wood canopy? I used a piece of wood with holes in it for the top of my canopy, and it really helped to dissipate a lot of heat. You might be able to fit in a muffin fan or two, too.

[jtown]

 

I made and stained the hood myself. Should have made it a little taller, but I like it sleeker. My lights are just a little too low.

[bautin2]

that's one slick-ass looking tank...

[jtown]

Originally posted by bautin2

that's one slick-ass looking tank...

thanks bau.

[MrConclusion]

Yeah man go with more light. I would add at least one more bulb because it would fit so nicely in that canopy/reflector you have (very nice BTW)

 

One of my tanks is a 10 gallon with 2x28 watt, and I WISH I could fit another two bulbs in it.

[Metznreef]

yeah, add another 50/50 bulb right between the actinic and the day light.

[Dave ESPI]

ya could always add a small fan.

Also, simply adding more lights will not increase intensity by that much. if ya want to ad more watts, by all means, try a smart light 55 W retro and shoehorn it in. This way ya can gave a single ballanced bulb.

[jtown]

damn you guys for the encouragement! If I bought anything, I'd probably get the same thing I have now from hellolights. hmmm... then I will probably need a fan of some sort which means more evap which means more maintenance. New project!

[Guest AbSoluTc]

Vho would probably be a better alternative than PC.

[jtown]

what is the difference between a VHO and PC?

[jtown]

wait, aren't PC's better than VHO's?

[Guest AbSoluTc]

Originally posted by jtown

wait, aren't PC's better than VHO's?

 

Not by a long shot. For small tanks 10gal and below - there fine. Thats all that can really be put on them. However, for the sake of argument - PC's are not better than VHO. Vho is much better than PC. PC's are mainstream because they are cheap.

[tinyreef]

i agree with abs. i've used pc, no, vho, and mh, and imo vho are better than pc for spectrum, bulb quality, and light dynamics (i.e. less dim spots). i don't agree with the 'long shot' comparison tho but they are better imo. vho may emit slightly less lumens per watt but that would be jmo not any quantitative comparison. since you already have pc's you can just stick with them imo. i don't know if you'll want to spend all the $$$ to switch over.

 

on a side note: the new T5 vho should eventually displace the entire pc market tho as you'll be able to squeeze much more light overhead than with pc or current vho.

[Pikelet]

You're probably going to need another PC ballast to go up to 3 or 4. My hood is fairly similar to yours and I currently run 2 x 55W 10K and 1 x NO Actinic. That generates more than enough heat 4" off the water so you need to include the price of at least one fan to pull some cool air in if you add more PC.

 

I'd be inclined to wait and go with the new HO or VHO T5's when and if they come out in the U.S.

[SLOreefer]

my lfs had some t5's...they are expensive...i dont remember exactly how much they cost but they had them...only one kit. i dont know if they sold them and are not getting anymore or what but i was interested since i just bought vho stuff for my 20 gallon project and liked the slim fit of the t5

[OscarBeast]

Bah.

 

Too general.

 

What is better than what really depends on what you are doing, what size, and how much total wattage you want.

 

However, for the sake of argument - PC's are not better than VHO. Vho is much better than PC.

AbSoluTc - based on what? Let's see the numbers. LUX or PAR. Anything...

[Guest AbSoluTc]

Oscar -

 

It does not take a "report" to tell most educated people that PC's are inherantly poor when it comes to design and output.

 

Now, I remember saying that for nanos, PC's are fine. Why? Because thats really all thats out there for smaller tanks. They don't require as much light either. However, for larger systems - you might as well take your money, hold it in front of you and watch as the green turns to a pretty glowing orange after you light it.

 

By design, pc's already are at a loss. Bending a tube and acheiving nominal output is not going to happen. You lose 20% of your light. Pc life is also reduced when you add the factor of heat. Runing pcs in a canopy with MH's is in direct oposition of most all flourescent lamps. ESPECIALLY PC's. High heat environments WILL alter the life expectany and physical quality of any PC, IE - degredation in output and the lamp becomes brittle over time.

 

Also, most any halide, will out "shine" a pc making its light - useless. Sure you say people do it all the time - thats fine. Allthough they are not aware they are wasting money.

 

It all comes down to cost. If its cheap - people will buy it. Whats more cheaper than PC's? Nothing. Now if you change that and provide a lighting system that is 100 times better at an equivalent cost, will people buy it? Sure. Its "better" than pc's.

 

Anyways, my point is to use common sense.

[OscarBeast]

It does not take a "report" to tell most educated people that PC's are inherantly poor when it comes to design and output.

Output simply can't properly be determined by the naked eye, as most educated people know. That is why the numbers are so important. As far as design, yes they are too delicate IMHO.

 

The fact is that I have seen too many people that have VHO and PCs that they like the PCs better and the numbers usually favor the PCs. On the other hand there are individuals that prefer the VHOs. Again... where are the numbers?

 

Whats more cheaper than PC's? Nothing.

This depends on the size and wattages you are working with. For $250 you can have 4 x 110 watt VHO retro with bulbs... complete with reflector. You can buy the same 4 x 96 watt PC retro for $349 with bulbs and reflectors. Cheaper? I think not. These are prices from hellolights.com .

 

Ok well let's look and see what a 4 x 96 watt retro costs from ahsupply.com ... $214.99 without bulbs. Then if you get the sale bulbs from hellolights for $30 a piece that brings you to $334.99.

 

Now for smaller systems, PCs can be more cost effective, but I think saying "nothing" is a flat out lie. As you can see, and check for yourself, in some cases VHOs are much less expensive.

 

Common sense would provide us to use scientific data to back up generalities that can not be judged with the naked eye. Common sense would tell us to compare prices between lighting systems of various sizes to determine what is more cost effective.

 

This was a pretty good job of trying to BS your way out of this, but you should really get it over with and say that it is your opinion until you can back it up with some legitimate numbers. If you can't produce them, just say so instead of saying ignorant things like "It does not take a "report" to tell most educated people..." What a joke.

[sjpresley]

AbSoluTc:

 

I agree with most everything you have said about lighting. However, saying metal halide will "outshine" any light making it useless is misleading and boardering on silly.

 

It isn't as though metal halide emit some sort of photon that travel in a wave pattern that blocks out other photonic emissions prohibiting them from reaching zooxanthellae in corals.

 

There is much evidence that suggests light is not a limiting resource in shallow seas and that in aquaria with quality lighting available today (VHO, PC, or MH) there is more than enough light available for most corals kept. The only problems are with the KIND of light not the AMOUNT. Which is why MH are often coupled with VHO, NO, or PC actinics.

 

That you can't see a difference with additional lights, doesn't mean the light isn't reaching your corals, just that you are not adapted to notice such changes. I am sure the corals/zooxanthellae do notice the additional lights. Whether or not additional lights do your corals any good is entirely different.

[Guest AbSoluTc]

I apologize for my lack of expansion on my post. My keyboard died and I could not finish. Let me explain.

 

Whats more cheaper than PC's? Nothing.

 

By this, I meant PC's used for nano's. 1 or 2 bulb configurations. Not full fledged reefs. VHO is cheaper for larger systems. However, is not available for smaller systems - 10gal and below. At least - bulb length is the issue behind that. Granted there may be a few bulbs floating around, but nothing "mainstream".

 

 

However, saying metal halide will "outshine" any light making it useless is misleading and boardering on silly.

 

I agree. Again, that came out wrong. What I meant by the origional statement was the fact that adding PC's to a metal halide system would be the equivalent of rakeing leaves uphill. If you are using metal halides, supplimenting with PC's is basically a waste. Yes the light from the PC's will reach the corals, but why have 2 seperate systems in which one is outcompeting and killing the other? Another example, lets say I put a metal halide over my tank and then add a 32w pc right next to it for supplimentation. Now, the metal halide is going to be brighter, "outshining" the PC. Yet, I just bought and paid for that system as well as using electricity, not to mention the cost of replacement. I also now have to worry about the fact that the heat from the halide will shorten the life of that PC rather quickly and also cause premature failure.

 

My point - Alot of people are putting 2 opposing systems together and calling it "good". It is not. One thrives on heat whereas the other system will be deteriorated by heat.

 

 

Now, if PC is so "renouned", why are there VHO setups? What are the ratings for PC's? I have never seen a HO or VHO PC. Are PC's just regular? Or, did I miss something? Can you overdrive PC's on a "normal" ballast? Can you overdrive PC's period?

 

 

To the question as to "Where the Numbers are", I can't tell you. I have not read very many reports on PC's - let alone a descent lighting report that was not biased. Even so, if one were to provide such a report with all the bulbs, ballasts, reflectors, tank conditions the problem would still remain. Why? People hate to hear that their "stuff" sucks. They prefer their beleifs over what the true facts are. People beleive what they want. They will also denounce any report as a whole if any minute flaw exists. People will also "assume" as well as jump to conclusions, twisting the nfo to what they want to hear. It has been done over and over. If its not to the liking of the "reefing community" it will be dismissed without a question.

 

 

Kris