Marine Salts

[BCOrchidGuy]

I thought after reading through everyones comments about the salts they used, I would post this for you all to look at. I myself was more than surprised at the IO, and other salts.

 

http://www.aquacraft.net/issue3.html

[Crakeur]

this has been so covered it's frightening. The "independent" test was sponsored by Aquacraft who makes Marine Environment and Bio Sea salt. Is the test compromise due to the fact that it was paid for by one of the salt manufacturers? Can't tell you. Is it odd that their salts rated tops in their testing? perhaps. Not going to go there. Better to take reefers' experience. Chris has been using Bio Sea and it seems as if the results are pretty good. I have been using Marine Environment and, once I get the stupid "little bottle" mixture figured out I will talk about my opinion on the salt.

 

Dave and I discussed this a bit over the weekend and the conclusion we both came to was, if table salt is giving you great results, use table salt. In other words, use what works and don't mess around experimenting with other things unless you are having problems. Chris had algae, switched salts and he is seeing a decline in the algae problem. My algae problem has also slowed down a bit but, thanks to that stupid little bottle, I am suffering from other problems. I would have preferred the algae problem and healthy sps corals. Removing algae is better than removing dead corals in my book.

 

Ok, I rambled but the point is, that test might be viewed as suspect by some (me for one, no offense MDP but I would be more impressed by an independent test, not paid for by one of the manufacturers) and your best bet is to listen to those that have tried it, and other salts out and, if you are having problems with the salt mix that you are currently using, try using something else. If you are not having problems, don't switch.

 

Crakeur exhales

[BCOrchidGuy]

I used to use IO but the LFS was out and I gave ME a try, that little bottle was a pain in the patoohey.

Reading the article and the supplimentary articles including how the tests were done, both samples were sent to different labs I have to wonder if it was fixed or if they just have a better product. My personal veiw... I am still looking I guess.

 

I sure understand your concerns about dealing with aglae or dead coral, I had the hugest bloom of algae once, I mean everything was covered in it, I was pulling wads off my soft corals every weekend for months, then, all the sudden it went away, and I mean with in a week it was all dead. The only thing I can figure was it was either my tap water or the tank was out of balance somewhere in the chemistry.

 

Right now I am at a cross roads, should I set up a nano, or a larger Reef, which salt to use is not an issue yet, figuring out whether to go with the 77, 72, 45, 33 or 20 gallon tanks and what to light with is the current issue. For the 4ft tanks I have priced out VHO, CP and MH, VHO is $200 for the ballast and End Caps, (thats 50% off) the bulbs will cost me about $120 a year, CP would be about $200 for a two x 96 watt system but the bubls would be double the yearly cost to replace, about $200, MH.... about $200 initially and $150 a year for the bulb. I am leaning to the VHO @ 110 watts, and using one 10,000k and one 20,000k tube with one or two 40 watt actinics.

[MrConclusion]

One problem with your lighting cost analysis:

 

VHO bulbs should be replaced every 6 months.

 

PC bulbs should be replaced every 12-16 months.

 

If you're running 96 watt PC lights, you shouldn't have to pay more than $40 including shipping for bulbs (check out ahsupply.com) making your cost $80 per year, not $150.

 

Your start-up lighting estimate of $200 for bulbs, ballasts, and reflectors is correct. That's the least amount of light I would want to have over a three foot tank, you can keep almost anything with good reflectors on 2x96watt.

[flaunt]

FWIW, i've been using ME too and i just decided to stop using the "little bottle" since i have no idea what's in it and didn't know whether i was putting the "right" amount of it in, whatever IT is.

[Crakeur]

I had emailed the company regarding proper dosage of the little bottle and the best they could tell me was to make a 5 gallon mixture of all the salt and the little bottle and then, when doing water changes, dilute the mixture as needed. THis doesn't work for me because I don't want to have a 5 gallon bucket of very salty water sitting out (baby in two months and that just won't fly with the wife) and I prefer to mix it as needed. I assume that you can ditch the little bottle and just use trace elements when doing water changes.

[Dave ESPI]

flaunt came out of the closet to say.....

FWIW, i've been using ME too and i just decided to stop using the "little bottle" since i have no idea what's in it and didn't know whether i was putting the "right" amount of it in, whatever IT is.

 

That is the stupidest fuking thing I have heard this week. X)

 

its a 2 PART SOLUTION......

you need the second part. it is enzymes and an Ion ballancer.

 

FWIW... I use Biosea for these EXACT reasons......

1) its easy

2) no little stupid bottle.

3) no little stupid bottle.

4) see reason # 2

5) it cost a little bit less.

6) see above mentioned rule # 4.

7) its hands down better than ANYTHING other than TM. IME.

8) IO= Ghetto.

9) reason # 3 still applys.

 

Steven, Ill trade ya fer some Bio sea if ya are still concerned when the "lill one" time comes.

[gobies]

Um. The ME makes 50g, right? So you add the whole bottle for 50g of sw.

 

Want to make less sw at once? Okey dokey, measure how much is in the little bottle. Make 5g of sw, add 1/10 of the total amount of the stuff in the little bottle.

 

It's just math, guys....

 

 

(IMO, they should have had KEN saying "Math is hard." I thought math was fun -- once they finally got to the interesting stuff, around 10th grade.)

[BCOrchidGuy]

My lighting cost analysis took into account the different times that the bulbs/tubes need to be changed, VHO are $40 each I figured on 9 months out of each tube, Compact 96 watts are $99.95 each. I live in Canada, shipping over the boarder is a fate I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy by the time you look at exchange, duties and taxes. The One thing I didn't take into account is finding the lights through Philips or Sylvania. I found my NO 03 actinics that way, best price I could find on the street was about $40 each, I got them from the distibutor for $11 each.

 

When I used ME I did the bucket trick and I thought I was pretty smart to figure that out. Then I thought, even in that high a salinity there is going to be some sort of bacterial growth, so adding the little bottle and mixing it up did work, I just added enough soup to keep my Salinity good, but I wonder how much of the good stuff I lost due to shelf life...

 

Im a fan of Garf, they use IO and SeaChem products I think I will follow suit.

[Crakeur]

Originally posted by gobies

Um. The ME makes 50g, right? So you add the whole bottle for 50g of sw.  

 

Want to make less sw at once? Okey dokey, measure how much is in the little bottle. Make 5g of sw, add 1/10 of the total amount of the stuff in the little bottle.  

 

It's just math, guys....

 

 

(IMO, they should have had KEN saying "Math is hard." I thought math was fun -- once they finally got to the interesting stuff, around 10th grade.)

 

the little bottle is tiny and the bag makes 25 gallons. That would mean pouring the little bottle into a measuring cup, doing the math, getting a syringe to measure out the correct dosage, praying you have it right and hoping that nobody drinks the leftover little bottle juice.

 

not worth the effort. If I were doing it again, I would go with Bio Sea or TM.

 

Dave, I'd gladly swap my remaining 5 bags of ME for Bio Sea and eat the difference.

[Dave ESPI]

BCOrchidGuy ... what? i]

VHO tubes cost $40.00 each........

Im a fan of Garf, they use IO and SeaChem products I think I will follow suit.

 

40.00 ! WTF? is that in Funny money?

 

GARF... Garbage Ass Rock Frags. They are a Joke. While they are an alternative, and the site has decent info, the rock has no longjevity. IO is cheep as hell at the volume they use it at.

While I like Seachem, I will not use IO ever again.

[BCOrchidGuy]

Thats what they pay me in so thats what I get to spend and that $40 is from the cheap place, the Place the rich folks go to buy thier stuff charges $80 each for VHOs. Just to warm your cheeks I will tell ya this too... hope you are sitting down. The ballast and end caps for a two light VHO system are onsale right now at the expensive place $759.95 bulbs are not included. The place I shop sells the ballast and end tubes at cost plus 10% or, $399.95, the one I am considering is a used electronic ballast for $200.

 

As far as the rock from Garf, the Aragocrete stuff, I have been curious I admit and I have been wanting to try it, I've not spoken to anyone who has tried it though so it is a hard call. I think I will make some up and do the 8 week aging in freshwater like they recommend and then set it up in a small tank and let it run for a while and see what happens, I guess thats the nice thing about having a ton of tanks sitting around gathering dust.

 

And FWIW I agree on your advice/comments on the little bottle, the bag of salt tells you what is in the bottle, I think the bag of salt is akin to Kosher salt with out the bottle.

[printerdown01]

Orchad, I think dave was asking if that was in Canadian Dollars, vs. American Dollars. This would drop the price considerably (by almost half, if memory serves me correctly from the last time I visited Cananda -exchange rates...).

[BCOrchidGuy]

I'm a Canadian so I get paid in Canadian money was what I was trying to say. American prices are alot less but, for me to ship items across the border, and pay duties, and taxes not to mention exchange I would end up paying more if not the same as here with out all the headaches of shipping.

 

The only time it is worth while to ship from the US is if I am buying bulk, which I rarely do, or if there is an item that simply isn't available in Canada, like some fish from a well known breeder or something along that line.

[luv2jeep]

Originally posted by Dave ESPI

 

40.00 ! WTF? is that in Funny money?  

 

GARF... Garbage Ass Rock Frags. They are a Joke. While they are an alternative, and the site has decent info, the rock has no longjevity. IO is cheep as hell at the volume they use it at.

While I like Seachem, I will not use IO ever again.

 

GARF??? Dave ... touche! I admit, when I recieved my GARF order for my 75-Gallon about 3 years ago, I opened the bag and was like: "I paid $100 for these pieces of rock?!" I needed a microscope to see the frags! BUT ... I also purchased a 9 for $99 from Jeff's Exotics and placed them in the tank at the same time. After running for a year, the GARF frags grew tenfold and were double the size of the JE corals!

 

I am a true believer in GARF frags! Been there, done that! Because they are captive propagated:

 

A - they are used to fluctuating aquarium environments

B - they are cheaper!

C - no one damaged a reef collecting them!

D - the money goes towards a good cause.

 

No, I'm not associated with them at all, just impressed! That and Leroy is a very informative and always willing to help!

 

-Craig