Man-grove2 Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 I need help deciding the route to go. I have a 55gal tank (perfecto with plastic center brace) and mainly will keep LR, hermits, snails, and some mushrooms. At least thats my plans. I have currently a 4ft NO flourescent dual 40watt hood. Should I: A: Get a dual 250w MH B: Just buy XX brand/type of NO 48" flour bulbs Link to comment
Dave ESPI Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 go for an ice cap 660 VHO hood retro kit. get 2 VHO daylights and 1 03 actinic. that should be good. If ya want to up grade later, ya can simply rewire to include a fouth. I can make ya one too, like mine. lemme know. this is over a 40 L and has 330 Watts. Link to comment
Palmetto Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 What do you want to keep in it? Link to comment
Man-grove2 Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Palmetto What do you want to keep in it? "and mainly will keep LR, hermits, snails, and some mushrooms. " -quote from my first msg... Link to comment
Palmetto Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 DOH!!!! MORE COFFEE!! Then, I agree with Dave on VHO. NO is a waste of time, MH is great but not necessary for your plans for this tank. VHO will run cool and give good growth for what you want to put in it. However, I would try to go ahead and run 4 bulbs- the main cost is the ballast anyway, so running 4 is not much more. I would run 2 Actinic 03 URI bulbs, and 2 Actinic White URI. Link to comment
Dave ESPI Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Im having issues with stiff bleaching and NOT liking 330 watts, so 4 bulbs would be ludicrus. ACTUALY, VHO do NOT run cooler than MH..... they put out hust as much heat except it is spread over a bigger area. I had to put in a HUGE 300 CFM fan to move air in a closed top hood cause the lights were over heating the water. this worked well and helped with surface gas exchanges. the PURPOSE of the 660 is also that it is programable and it can be dimmed. I have them running various configurations on a few different tanks. Some with even 2 bulbs. PLUS its much easier to upgrade the 660 than the 440 wiring, when adding another bulb. H T H Link to comment
Palmetto Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Dave- Your 330 watts is NOT bleaching anything you have, at least not from the intensity. VHO is simply not intense enough to cause your corals to bleach in the setup you have. You must have another problem that is causing your bleaching- perhaps temperature in your homemade hood? A small fan put in one side of your hood and a hole for air intake on the other side would be a great improvement. Your hood is trapping what heat the VHOs do put off. I use 440 watts on our 75-gallon holding tanks on ICECAP 660, and plan to add at least two more bulbs and another ballast. Also, VHO definately runs cooler than MH. You can sit VHO right on acrylic without melting it. Try that with MH! The IceCap 440 will not operate more than two bulbs, and for this reason I would not consider this model. He also has a bigger tank than you have, and the extra light will be a big plus, IMO. Link to comment
Dave ESPI Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 I have gone over every possible option in my 40 L ( which is a 55gal with 3 inches of hieght chopped off) and is only 15 gall less volume. you have 440 Watts of light over a 75 gal which is 13 x 15 x 48 approx. that is a heck of a lot more surface area and room for light diffusion. I had a similar set up on a 75 and have also has 2 175 W mh w 2 VHO on it and also had 2 x 65 W PC. all the corals and rock came from that tank and went into the 40 L. It is NOT something in the tank. IMHO / IME the intensity of the VHO over a shallover tank (EVEN THOUGH MANY ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TANK) is causing the Rhodactus, Stonies and softies alike to bleach out. TRUE Halides will melt plastic, but like I STATED... it is a focused radiant heat source, and VHO disperse heat spread over a greater area. you can bleach corals in 13 Watts of PC or 36 watts of VHO as intensity is not realated to wattage. the reason people use PC and VHO is cause LUX is much higher than standard output bulbs. reply awaited.... Link to comment
Man-grove2 Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Well, how much will each option cost me? If I went 2X250w MH (allowing for future expansion to Lighthungry corals) OR if I went with a 4X "so-and-so"watts VHO? Cost is gonna play a large part as I am on a budget and may have $275 to spend. Link to comment
Palmetto Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Oh, I'm not arguing- just trying to help ya! Sorry it took so long to reply, I was eating. Yes, the VHO distributes the heat over a larger area. However, if you put two 150-watt MH bulbs in your hood without allowing a better way to exhaust the heat, you would nearly boil your water. This is why many people have to resort to using chillers after upgrading to MH. Yes, the 75-gallon is bigger, and disperses the light more. However, I also have more light and I do have an 8"+ DSB. I have also placed corals inches away from the bulbs with no ill effects. Heck, a friend of mine has two 400-watt MHs on a 75-Gallon tank. His corals do not bleach, and he has softies and mushrooms as well as SPS. Now, I know that corals can bleach from too much intensity, but that is usually seen when a sudden increase in lighting is experienced, not in a case like yours where they should be used to it. I have also NEVER seen a case where VHO lights in any combination have had such an effect on corals. I agree that in your 40 gallon shallow tank, 3 bulbs is fine- no real reason to add a fourth. But, I cannot believe that your VHO bulbs, which distribute the light evenly across the length of the bulb, are too intense for your corals in this case- VHO bulbs just don't have that kind of intensity. Yes, they are more intense than NO- several times over. But, they do not have the punch that damages corals- in any size tank, IMO. Temperature, however does- and your hood is trapping the heat. Commercial enclosed hoods for VHO draw air in on the side, and draw it across the length of the bulb and out the other side- providing for very efficient cooling. What does your surface temperature climb to in that tank? You have said you have struggled with the temperature- and I think the hood design is your problem there. It looks like a great hood- it is just missing openings on the sides with a fan on one end. Your only opening is on one of the four sides- the back. You are getting no air flow across the bulbs, and no exhaust. Sorta like rolling down one car window instead of two. Rolling one down is not going to do much on a hot day, but CRACK them both just a bit, and it will cool. Link to comment
Crakeur Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Darren, more important question is when are you getting more of those purple ricordias in? I want some! Link to comment
Palmetto Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Yeah, me too! The last ones I got do not have the deep purple between tentacles- more of an orange on orange. Link to comment
Man-grove2 Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Do the ricordias require actinic? If I went MH, what K bulb would work best as a all-around bulb? 10000K??? Link to comment
MrConclusion Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 From what I have seen, MH bulbs with the same "kelvin" rating can give a very different look depending on manufacturer and (believe it or not) ballast style. I have seen tanks with high-wattage 20K's, driven with standard magnetic ballasts looking dim and very blue. A setup with similar bulbs but driven with electronic ballasts seeme to have much better (brighter and not too blue) output. Admittedly, these were with different reflectors, but both were using 400 watt 20K bulbs. Link to comment
reiple Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 seems what you put should dictate what you need for light. but never practical as an ordinary reefer might want more than what his setup originally was meant for. a composite MH and Actinic would be fine. Dunno about VHO and others. Most tanks I've seen locally (that means in Manila) are MH and Actinic based. Mine is NO Compacts and Actinic combo. I only keep clams and sps anyway (no acro). Keep reefin... Link to comment
Dave ESPI Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 : ok so aparently there is no swaying you on the VHO intensity VS MH issue, so Ill shut up and simply "know" im correct "IME". As I said I added a 300 CFM fan to the hood and that settled the problem. If uyer on a budget, then VHO is the way to go. GET THE STANDOFFS ! with the End caps. It is wayy eazier to assemble a hood that way. AFAIC, Price is NOT for us to research... ya have to bargain shop around..... I WOULD ONLY ACCEPT URI BULBS though. $ for $ they are the best. FOR MH, anything over 67 K is useless and only is eye appealing. I HAD 10Ks and they were too blue... they totaly wash the colors out of the tank..... UNLESS you want the 30 Metere look. dont go GHETTO.... get a good MH set up and good bulbs. HQI and CSL make excelent full hoods, but are spendy.... But then what aspect of this hobby isnt. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME...... Your corals will thank you. Link to comment
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