NCNBilly Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I have been trying like mad to keep my alkalinity at 3.5-3.75 and it WILL NOT stay there. I have tried every product known to man - the tank isn't heavily stocked - some zoos, palythoas, mushrooms, and a scleronepthya. I've been adding 10mL of B-Ionic (each bottle) and it just barely stays at 3.0, and my ph drops to 7.95 at night (hits 8.25 during the day). I've lost some corals (softies) and I think it's all related. So where/what is using up the carbonates that I'm replacing like mad. Now I'm dripping kalk in my topoff, but still seem to be fighting a losing battle. My calcium is where it should be, and I'm not seeing any precipitation anywhere. HELP! Link to comment
10" Red Devil Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Sounds like a bad Alk test or bad Calcium test. Because if one of those is off, the other should be as well. Link to comment
Pinchy Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 could be taht- but you know what i bet it is? the fuge you got! mine strips my tank of carbonates- macro algae will consume taht crap out of it; be sure that your keep your macros trimmed down to a low level- too much growth and your going to loose a lot of carbonates- another reason why fuges can be problematic! do you keep your fuge light on 24/7? that would help stabilize the pH some; it also may just tkae a while to stabilize- but just keep in mind there's alot of things competeing for kH.. Link to comment
NCNBilly Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'm confused as to how cheato is using carbonates in the water. Fuge is lit 24/7. I can't believe that my 10 gal display with only a few corals is consuming 1.0+ meq/L of carbonates a day. I have a good bit of coralline on the rock, but no SPS, clams, or (now) softies. Can someone enlighten me? Link to comment
NCNBilly Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Is it possible I'm skimming it out? Link to comment
FAC_WNY Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 What is your Ca level? Ca and ALK are inversely proportionate to one another in solution. If you have too much of one, it's going to cause the other to precipitate out. Cheers, Fred Link to comment
vangvace Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ^^^agreed^^^ I would also check to see how much CO2 is in your place as well if your Ca is at a normal level. May also recommend adding something in addition to B-Ionic to bring up your Alk. Oh and how old is the tank? Link to comment
Cellenzweig Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I would say Fred is on the right track as well... Link to comment
NCNBilly Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Ca is a bit high (475 ppm), but nothing is precipitating out that I can find. I've stopped Kalk, and am just dosing RO/DI with 20mL SeaChem Reef Carbonate (liquid) which should put me at 3.75 by tomorrow night, and the calcium should drop to 440 which is close to being balanced. I've been using B-Ionic for about a month now. Alk is back down to 2.5 after it was 3.0 this morning. This tank was an upgrade from a tank started about a year ago. The live rock was cured for about 6 months prior to this system being assembled. It's been running like this since the beginning of November. Link to comment
MrAnderson Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Some possibilities: When macroalgae exhaust CO2 in solution they utilize HCO3 in a salvage photosynthetic pathway. Try upping your CO2 with additional circulation or aeration. This will also stabilize your pH. High temp (>84degF), high pH (>8.5), low Mg++ (<1100) can all lead to varying degrees of abiotic CaCO3 precipitation. Any white haze on your heater? Do your powerheads get clogged? Also test Mg++. Coralline can consume more carbonate than you may think, if it is actively growing. I also noticed you have Scleronephthya. If it is growing rapidly it will also consume HCO3 (hence the "sclero" denoting sclerites present in the coral body). Is your sandbed hardening? In my opinion your Ca is somewhat higher than is necessary, but not high enough to drive the drops you are seeing, which may be the normal consumption rate for this tank. My tank uses ridiculous amounts of alk as well, but it's loaded with SPS and coralline. Link to comment
Pinchy Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ^^exactly- those evil macros! anyway- how often are you doing waterchanges as well? Link to comment
knowse Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Go here for many great articles on reef chemistry. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/index/ All of questions will be answered. Link to comment
NCNBilly Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 I've been doing 2 gallons a week, which is just over 10% using Bio-sea Marine Mix to sg of 1.026. I usually make up 5 gallons, and have it constantly running in a bucket with an MJ1200 and an airstone. Link to comment
NCNBilly Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 Just cleaned out the fuge last night. A big section of the sand bed was like concrete. I broke it up (now it's sand again). My ph went up to 8.5, and my alkalinity shot up to 4.5 meq/l. Any ideas what's happening? Link to comment
MrAnderson Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Yeah, since your sandbed is aragonite it was providing a place for crystallization of CaCO3 occur. A portion of your carbonate was being transformed into the "concrete" layer. Once you broke it up, some formerly crystallized CaCO3 re-dissolved - that's evident from your elevated alk reading. Link to comment
NCNBilly Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 I increased flow in the fuge - added a spray bar. Hopefully that will be enough. Link to comment
Pinchy Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 interesting: NCNbilly, what kinda substrate are you using in your fuge? just plain old argonite? im using mineral mud- im assuming the "concrete" occurance can happen to me as well- i better check.. Link to comment
Steve973 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Calcuim doesn't cause carbonate to precipitate out, and carbonate doesn't cause calcium to precipitate out. The precipitate is calcium carbonate - they combine and that is what precipitates. Steve Link to comment
NCNBilly Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 The fact still remains that my calcium levels are usually ok, and my alk was low. BTW - since breaking up the brick and dosing saturated kalk my water is spot on alk at 4.75 meq/l, ph at 8.3-8.4 and calc at 475-480. Link to comment
bobioden Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 What is your Magniesium level? I always find that if my Mg is off I have a hard time getting my CA and ALK to balance. Once I get my Mg adjusted the other two seem to fall in place. Bob Link to comment
NCNBilly Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 Dunno, I don't test for it. I'll check it out. Link to comment
DRZL-sauras Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 You should also check you alk when you mix up a fresh batch of saltwater. My oceanic needs to be brought up with baking soda before i put it in my tank. I did once mistakingly thinking i had already put in for alk and my LPS look ####ed after the 30% WC..checked my alk and it had brought it down alk to 5.4 DKH, dosed back some Baking Soda brought it back 11 and everyone was happy. Link to comment
gmy Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 DRZL-sauras I also use Oceanic salt. question...... how much baking soda do you add per gallon? Link to comment
MadTownMax Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 gmy - you'll have to check your individual bucket, they've been having some batch-to-batch issues. Personally - I use reef crystals, the mix is a little more expensive than the others, but it saves me tons of money and time in not having to supplement calcium, alkalinity, and especially Magnesium - the supplements will always end up costing you more than a well-made salt mix. I only wish they made it in the jugs like oceanic does Link to comment
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