Am I bad at fishkeeping?

[banasophia]

So I feel like we need to gather all the info here to figure this out. I think you have info posted in a few different places so it’s hard to see all the pieces of the puzzle. 

• tank is a Fluval 13.5 gallon
• tank running for about 13 months
• 4 fish deaths, but not all at the same time and sound kinda different from each other
  • one clownfish jumped
  • one clownfish gradually got sick and died
  • one bangaii cardinal gradually got sick and died
  • one clownfish quickly got sick and died yesterday, the day after introducing to tank 
  • need to know timeframe on all of the fish deaths
• substrate is pool filter sand

 

Things I can think of to consider at the moment:

• disease
• temperature
• salinity
• electricity
• oxygenation
• contaminant
• not cycled properly
• other parameters off
• harmful pest/predator
• bad luck/unrelated/coincidence 

How is the yellow watchman looking? 
 

What saltwater are you using?
What do you do to replace evaporated water?

Are you testing your parameters yourself, or taking the water for testing? 

What filter media?

What/how much food?

Any dosing/additives?

Do you have an ammonia badge? 

[banasophia]

53 minutes ago, BubbleTrouble said:

One jumped out, one I believe just slowly started to look sickly until it passed, and this more recent one had the raised white wounds on its side (which I did not thoroughly check this one before putting in my tank, definitely and error.)

 

I believe this is the sand I have? If it is wrong how do I remove it

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/fairmount-santrol-aquaquartz-pool-filter-sand-20-lb-0814253p.0814253.html

I’m not sure about that sand… I’ve never seen it used but when I did a quick search it seemed like others have used it without any problems. 

[Woodini]

1 hour ago, BubbleTrouble said:

@Humblefish does brookynella have a white appearance when the skin sloughing happens?

I know I do 🤘🏿

[BubbleTrouble]

9 hours ago, banasophia said:

I’m not sure about that sand… I’ve never seen it used but when I did a quick search it seemed like others have used it without any problems. 

If it did cause problems... what kind of problems would I be looking for? So far it seems like the watchman goby is able to filter it through his gills fine, the corner of my tank where he staked his claim has white sand again already!

[banasophia]

33 minutes ago, BubbleTrouble said:

If it did cause problems... what kind of problems would I be looking for? So far it seems like the watchman goby is able to filter it through his gills fine, the corner of my tank where he staked his claim has white sand again already!

Based on what I saw last night during my search, it seems the sand is probably not the problem. I personally wouldn’t use it… I would stick with stuff being sold specifically for reef tanks… but it’s probably not the issue here... looks like it’s inert. Good to look at the other possible causes of fish death.

 

 

How is the yellow watchman looking? Can you include a pic?
 

What saltwater are you using?
What do you do to replace evaporated water?

Are you testing your parameters yourself, or taking the water for testing? 

What filter media?

What/how much food?

Any dosing/additives?

Do you have an ammonia badge?

[BubbleTrouble]

27 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Based on what I saw last night during my search, it seems the sand is probably not the problem. I personally wouldn’t use it… I would stick with stuff being sold specifically for reef tanks… but it’s probably not the issue here... looks like it’s inert. Good to look at the other possible causes of fish death.

 

 

How is the yellow watchman looking? Can you include a pic?
 

What saltwater are you using?
What do you do to replace evaporated water?

Are you testing your parameters yourself, or taking the water for testing? 

What filter media?

What/how much food?

Any dosing/additives?

Do you have an ammonia badge?

Sorry I did see your post earlier and I will absolutely give you all the data when I get home to my tank. It'll be about noon for me so the light will have been on for a bit for better pics for you 🙂 I really appreciate your thoroughness

[BubbleTrouble]

What saltwater are you using?

- LFS mixed saltwater

What do you do to replace evaporated water?

- tap water, many of my local reef keepers and freshwater keepers use our city's tap water because it has "good" phosphate levels. I am amendable to switching to distilled or RO water, both are available at LFS

 

Are you testing your parameters yourself, or taking the water for testing? 

- testing it myself with Red Sea, Marine Care multi-test kit

 

What filter media?

- sponge sold by Fluval, change carbon 1st of every month, and the Fluval Biomax I have switched out once in the year I've had it. Some online suggestions stated to switch out the Biomax every 6 months? So I am due to switch out the Biomax. I rinse out the sponge and Biomax I would say every few months? I have reminders on my phone to rinse them in used tank water on a schedule reccomended on a thread for the Fluval 13.5's but I dont remember the exact frequency off hand

 

What/how much food?

Hikari Crab Cuisine for the hermits and the nassarius snails, mysis shrimp for the goby. I also turn off the filter for a bit to spread the mysis shrimp around to the corals

 

Any dosing/additives?

I have tried Aquivitro "Fuel" but I am not that consistent with it. I have typically done one capful a week, max two capfuls a week

 

Do you have an ammonia badge?

I don't, I've heard they're not accurate enough for the price? Do you have a different experience with them?

 

[banasophia]

12 hours ago, banasophia said:

need to know timeframe on all of the fish deaths

Okay that’s all good info consider. Can you also include the rough dates of the fish being added to the tank and then dying? And any pic of your new fish? 

[BubbleTrouble]

9 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Okay that’s all good info consider. Can you also include the rough dates of the fish being added to the tank and then dying? And any pic of your new fish? 

Pics right now! Insane timing.

 

The hammer coral he is hanging out by used to be my prized coral, but has been splitting for months and I think I am neglecting something it needs to finish it's split because it has gone white. It seems to appreciate the water change I did yesterday because the polyps are ever so slightly more extended.

 

What kind of date information do you mean? Like "put fish in on this date, passed on this date"?

[BubbleTrouble]

I have yellow and bluish candy cane corals too, the yellow ones haven't been happy with me but the blue ones seem more resilient to whatever I may be doing wrong?

 

The acropora in the lower front left was bright green and then turned brown - twice. So I am not sure what that information may tell you ahhh

[banasophia]

 

54 minutes ago, BubbleTrouble said:

What kind of date information do you mean? Like "put fish in on this date, passed on this date"?

Yes. 🙂 Approximate dates.
 

 

Also, was the watchman goby yellow when you got it a few days ago and lost its color? Or did it always look beige like that? 
 

 

[BubbleTrouble]

19 minutes ago, banasophia said:

 

Yes. 🙂 Approximate dates.
 

 

Also, was the watchman goby yellow when you got it a few days ago and lost its color? Or did it always look beige like that? 
 

 

Always been beige since I got him on Tuesday.

 

I regret my record-keeping skills! I will do my best.

 

first clownfish: June 28, 2022 to August 2022 approx

banggai cardinalfish: October 6, 2022, November 27, 2022 one passed away. January 28 traded the male banggai cardinal I had since Oct for coral

second attempt at clownfish: February 8 2023 I think lived for a month? I didn't record when it passed

male guppy May 31  but he didn't make it, I was unwise to try this.

and current inhabitants: June 27, 2023 - one clownfish that didn't live 24hr and had white sores, and the goby that is still chilling

[BubbleTrouble]

I forgot to add that when I ordered the goby online I didn't get to pick the exact specimen, so I was not aware of his color until arrival! I did a bit of a dive into their coloring and it could be stress based, or sex based. I will do my best with this lil guy and see if he changes to yellow!

 

edit: I did a 24hr drip acclimate for the guppy - I did do some research but tbh just shouldnt have put him in!

[banasophia]

Hmmm… I’m really not sure what’s going on. How are you testing your salinity and what is it right now? It says 1.25 in your table, not 1.025? 

[banasophia]

Here’s an interesting article by Randy Holmes-Farley that includes a section on the use of silica / quartz sand as a substrate.
https://reefs.com/magazine/silica-in-reef-aquariums/

[mcarroll]

On 6/29/2023 at 5:16 PM, BubbleTrouble said:

I knooow I keep seeing people say they're "so easy" but I've had the worst luck and it's really bringing me down.

 

I respect the feelings towards small tanks hahaha I always give people shit for small beta tanks, my freshwater 20g is a mansion for my fancy beta 

Fish are the hardest part of this hobby.  Unfortunately most folks seem to think about fish like they are the easy part....which often sets up a lot of wrong expectations.  

 

Part of the problem with fish is....

• Acclimation advice is all over the place.  (excellent guide here)
• QT advice is all over the place.
• Disease advice is scary-bad.
• You can routinely see folks stocking and recommending fish for tanks that are too small.

Fish are NOT easy.

 

For the record, 10 gallons is too small for two Clownfishes.  Find me a book or seller that says otherwise.  

 

For the 20 gallon recommendations, I'm going with...

• Scott Michael (Pocket Expert Guide)
• liveaquaria.com
• saltwateraquarium.com
• vividaquarium.com
• sustainableaquatics.com

....over random internet opinions that will tell you numbers as low as 5-6 gallons for clownfish.  That's just asking for trouble.  (To put it kindly.)   

 

All of those sources agree – 20 gallon minimum.

 

If you're going smaller than that, you are pushing the limits.  

 

Pushing the limits makes problems more likely, and more severe when they do happen.

 

Of course folks push the limits like that all that time.   Sometimes maybe even for a good reason (yeah, right).  But assuming they are always successful after pushing the limits like that would be a mistake. 

 

IMO, leave pushing the limits (and the associated problems) to someone else.  

 

Especially considering the problems you've had already.  

 

PLAY IT SAFE FROM HERE ON.  Give your fish (and your self!) a margin of safety on tank size.

 

BTW, same size limit for Yellow Watchman Goby....20 gallons.

 

When a fish is in a tank that's too small (ie 10 gallons instead of 20), stress is the result.    (Your beta tank sounds like a PERFECT example of GOOD fish stocking, BTW.)

 

Too much stress like that for too long can wear down a fish's immune system....eventually allowing disease to set in.

 

Any other stresses (ie mean fish in the tank, weird water chemistry, poor food supply, etc) on the fish are cumulative.

 

You really want that margin for error on your side.  👍

 

12 hours ago, BubbleTrouble said:

edit: I did a 24hr drip acclimate for the guppy - I did do some research but tbh just shouldnt have put him in!

That's WAY overkill....DEFINITELY could have been what weakened the fish unless you were REALLY paying attention for that 24 hours.  Check out the acclimation guide I linked earlier in this post to see what you need to be monitoring.  (24hrs is too long no matter what.)

 

Are most of your fish local or do you order most of your fish without seeing them first?

[BubbleTrouble]

8 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Fish are the hardest part of this hobby.  Unfortunately most folks seem to think about fish like they are the easy part....which often sets up a lot of wrong expectations.  

 

Part of the problem with fish is....

• Acclimation advice is all over the place.  (excellent guide here)
• QT advice is all over the place.
• Disease advice is scary-bad.
• You can routinely see folks stocking and recommending fish for tanks that are too small.

Fish are NOT easy.

 

For the record, 10 gallons is too small for two Clownfishes.  Find me a book or seller that says otherwise.  

 

For the 20 gallon recommendations, I'm going with...

• Scott Michael (Pocket Expert Guide)
• liveaquaria.com
• saltwateraquarium.com
• vividaquarium.com
• sustainableaquatics.com

....over random internet opinions that will tell you numbers as low as 5-6 gallons for clownfish.  That's just asking for trouble.  (To put it kindly.)   

 

All of those sources agree – 20 gallon minimum.

 

If you're going smaller than that, you are pushing the limits.  

 

Pushing the limits makes problems more likely, and more severe when they do happen.

 

Of course folks push the limits like that all that time.   Sometimes maybe even for a good reason (yeah, right).  But assuming they are always successful after pushing the limits like that would be a mistake. 

 

IMO, leave pushing the limits (and the associated problems) to someone else.  

 

Especially considering the problems you've had already.  

 

PLAY IT SAFE FROM HERE ON.  Give your fish (and your self!) a margin of safety on tank size.

 

BTW, same size limit for Yellow Watchman Goby....20 gallons.

 

When a fish is in a tank that's too small (ie 10 gallons instead of 20), stress is the result.    (Your beta tank sounds like a PERFECT example of GOOD fish stocking, BTW.)

 

Too much stress like that for too long can wear down a fish's immune system....eventually allowing disease to set in.

 

Any other stresses (ie mean fish in the tank, weird water chemistry, poor food supply, etc) on the fish are cumulative.

 

You really want that margin for error on your side.  👍

 

That's WAY overkill....DEFINITELY could have been what weakened the fish unless you were REALLY paying attention for that 24 hours.  Check out the acclimation guide I linked earlier in this post to see what you need to be monitoring.  (24hrs is too long no matter what.)

 

Are most of your fish local or do you order most of your fish without seeing them first?

Thank you for your input and expertise, I should mention I was referencing the nano tank guide here on this forum regarding the yellow watchman goby in a 10g tank. 

[banasophia]

While it is really important to choose types and numbers of fish according to tank size, I really do not think that your tank size is the reason for those fish deaths. I do always recommend checking tank size recommendations on liveaquaria, as mentioned. 
 

I do agree with mcarroll in his recommendation to play it safe from here on out with your tank to try to have more success with fish going forward. 
 

I kinda suspect temperature swings, salinity swings, or some kind of impurity building up in the tank from tap water topoffs. 
 

How do you do your topoffs, by they way - manually or do you have an ATO? And were you using anything to treat the tap water to remove chlorine and chloramines before adding it? 

 

The first thing I would do is to stop using tap water for your top offs, and instead use distilled or RODI water. When you are adding tap water every day or two for evaporation, the pure H2O continues to evaporate, leaving behind more and more impurities each day from your tap water to build up in the tank over time. My tap water has a TDS of 69, for example… I do not know what those impurities are and wouldn’t take the chance of letting them build up in my reef tanks.
 

If it was me, personally this is what I would do first: I would switch to distilled/RODI for topoffs, add an ammonia badge, add an ATO if possible (they are extremely helpful for keeping parameters stable in a nano reef tank).
 

Other things I might do as well down the line but probably not right away, depending on what I thought was going on: if there’s any question about whether temperature is fluctuating too much I would get a thermometer which would make it easier to see the temp all the time (possibly an inkbird), and I might change that sand out for Aragonite live sand made for reef tanks.

[banasophia]

Also, I don’t think I saw your answer yet about your salinity? Was it 1.25 or 1.025, and how are you measuring it?

[BubbleTrouble]

23 hours ago, banasophia said:

Also, I don’t think I saw your answer yet about your salinity? Was it 1.25 or 1.025, and how are you measuring it?

Yes, 1.025 - just omitted the zero in error!

 

On 7/1/2023 at 12:15 PM, banasophia said:

While it is really important to choose types and numbers of fish according to tank size, I really do not think that your tank size is the reason for those fish deaths. I do always recommend checking tank size recommendations on liveaquaria, as mentioned. 
 

I do agree with mcarroll in his recommendation to play it safe from here on out with your tank to try to have more success with fish going forward. 
 

I kinda suspect temperature swings, salinity swings, or some kind of impurity building up in the tank from tap water topoffs. 
 

How do you do your topoffs, by they way - manually or do you have an ATO? And were you using anything to treat the tap water to remove chlorine and chloramines before adding it? 

 

The first thing I would do is to stop using tap water for your top offs, and instead use distilled or RODI water. When you are adding tap water every day or two for evaporation, the pure H2O continues to evaporate, leaving behind more and more impurities each day from your tap water to build up in the tank over time. My tap water has a TDS of 69, for example… I do not know what those impurities are and wouldn’t take the chance of letting them build up in my reef tanks.
 

If it was me, personally this is what I would do first: I would switch to distilled/RODI for topoffs, add an ammonia badge, add an ATO if possible (they are extremely helpful for keeping parameters stable in a nano reef tank).
 

Other things I might do as well down the line but probably not right away, depending on what I thought was going on: if there’s any question about whether temperature is fluctuating too much I would get a thermometer which would make it easier to see the temp all the time (possibly an inkbird), and I might change that sand out for Aragonite live sand made for reef tanks.

Okay, I will switch to distilled and look into a ATO as well as ammonia badges

 

I use Prime for my tap water. Never skipped that step.