Should I or should I not clean the sand

[RickvD]

Hello, here I am with yet another small question (I think this will be my last for a while).

 

I've got a sandbed which is a tiny bit under an inch thick. I've got some debree here and there, but I read a lot of mixed opinions about cleaning the sand. I do have 2 snails and a hermit, and will get more snails in some time but i'm not sure if it will be enough to keep that clean white look, as it's currently changing in a more "algae" like color.

 

I do have a siphon vacuum which I use for water changes, and even though it is ment as a vacuum, it empty's 10% of my tank in a matter of 10-15 seconds, which wont be enough to clean the sand. I also have a cave like scape, meaning I can't reach under, and I don't think removing 2 big rocks every week is smart.

 

So what is the best option? Trust on my snails to do al the heavy work and just keep checking my parameters for the next few weeks?

 

[seabass]

43 minutes ago, RickvD said:

even though it is ment as a vacuum, it empty's 10% of my tank in a matter of 10-15 seconds

I ended up buying some smaller tubing at Home Depot.  You can siphon out the debris, then rinse out the sand that gets removed and return the cleaned sand.

 

You might also consider occasionally stirring the sand bed (usually before a water change, but you can also do this when you are running filter floss in your filter).

 

48 minutes ago, RickvD said:

I do have 2 snails and a hermit

I'm not sure how big your tank is.  That sounds about right for a 5 gallon tank.  If your tank is larger than that, I'd consider adding to your cleanup crew.

[RickvD]

4 minutes ago, seabass said:

I'm not sure how big your tank is.  That sounds about right for a 5 gallon tank.  If your tank is larger than that, I'd consider adding to your cleanup crew.

It's a 15 gal. Added my first livestock yesterday and didn't want to do it. However today I noticed I have a bit more algae then I thought.

 

4 minutes ago, seabass said:

I ended up buying some smaller tubing at Home Depot.

Was also thinking about this but smaller tubing doesn't fit my suction cup thing. Or do you mean just only use the tube and nothing attached to it?

 

5 minutes ago, seabass said:

You might also consider occasionally stirring the sand bed

I don't think I can reach the sand under my cave scape...

[Woodini]

I think you need more cleaners.  I will be running 3-4 snails (a blend of suckers and diggers), 5-6 hermits, probably a couple very small serpent stars and MAYBE a tiny cucumber. In my 7.5g

[GobyBryant]

21 minutes ago, seabass said:

You might also consider occasionally stirring the sand bed (usually before a water change, but you can also do this when you are running filter floss in your filter).

I have an IM15 and this is my approach to cleaning the sand. I find it very effective. No clean up crew in my tank. I find that snails aren’t super effective and hermits just get themselves into trouble. 

[RickvD]

10 minutes ago, Woodini said:

I think you need more cleaners.  I will be running 3-4 snails (a blend of suckers and diggers), 5-6 hermits, probably a couple very small serpent stars and MAYBE a tiny cucumber. In my 7.5g

 Wow, I was so afraid to over do it in a new tank. Will be going to the LFS (not really "local", the nearest fish store is an hour drive) to buy some more snails. They don't have any hermits available right now. But will definitely buy 4-5 more snails!

2 minutes ago, GobyBryant said:

I have an IM15 and this is my approach to cleaning the sand. I find it very effective. No clean up crew in my tank. I find that snails aren’t super effective and hermits just get themselves into trouble. 

Alright thanks for the tip!

 

 

[natalia_la_loca]

I prefer stirring the sand bed too. I decided to run a very thin sand bed in my Evo and it still amazes me how much detritus accumulates. I haven’t found any nano sized CUC that releases detritus anywhere near as well as stirring/siphoning. Pistol shrimps are good as long as you don’t have any coral on the sand, but even they just push sand around IME.

[GobyBryant]

Lol nothing like two polar opposite takes in regards to CUC in back to back comments 😂😂😂

 

If you’re looking for a snail specifically for sand bed cleaning, I’ve heard people vouch for fighting conchs. Nassarius snails in my previous tanks mostly ate any food that happened to fall to the sand bed. 

[RickvD]

3 minutes ago, GobyBryant said:

If you’re looking for a snail specifically for sand bed cleaning, I’ve heard people vouch for fighting conchs. Nassarius snails in my previous tanks mostly ate any food that happened to fall to the sand bed. 

Got one of those and it’s a real lazy asshole. Moves arround when he feels like it, but doens’t feel like cleaning at all 😂

[GobyBryant]

2 minutes ago, RickvD said:

Got one of those and it’s a real lazy asshole. Moves arround when he feels like it, but doens’t feel like cleaning at all 😂

This is why I stopped stocking a cuc altogether hahaha 

 

I think it’s better to add them to a well established tank more for entertainments sake than anything else. 

[RickvD]

1 hour ago, GobyBryant said:

This is why I stopped stocking a cuc altogether hahaha 

 

I think it’s better to add them to a well established tank more for entertainments sake than anything else. 

I’ll definitly keep hermits just because I think they are absolutely adorable. And some snails cause it won’t hurt, but I won’t rely on them.

[RickvD]

Sidenote, I just almost kicked over a rock when trying to check something. What is good glue that I can use to glue the rocks together while in the tank with livestock in it.

[Woodini]

I know they make reef safe epoxies

Link

 

im not clear on the process. 

[seabass]

2 hours ago, RickvD said:

Was also thinking about this but smaller tubing doesn't fit my suction cup thing. Or do you mean just only use the tube and nothing attached to it?

Yeah I meant just the tubing.

 

Your algae might just be diatoms.  If so, this stage will eventually pass.

[RickvD]

54 minutes ago, seabass said:

Yeah I meant just the tubing.

So make it vacuum, suck up sand, tighten the tube so the sand falls but not the debree and keep going like that? I got some AIO tubing but that may be a bit to small.

55 minutes ago, seabass said:

Your algae might just be diatoms.  If so, this stage will eventually pass.

Diatoms are red-ish right? My algae is dark green/light brown.

[mcarroll]

6 hours ago, RickvD said:

So what is the best option? Trust on my snails to do al the heavy work and just keep checking my parameters for the next few weeks?

The best approach is almost always to model what happens on wild reefs.  

 

That means cleanup crew.  

 

A few scavengers (eg hermits, nassarius snails) along with enough herbivore snails (eg turbo, trochus, astrea) to keep green algae in check.  

 

Plus YOU as the #1 CUC member to get all algae that grows too long and to remove "detritus buildup".

 

But even more significantly than CUC, wild reefs get LOTS of strong flow.

 

Especially in a reef tank, LOTS of strong flow is what prevents food and detritus from settling – which allows coral (or at least a filter) to eat it before the rocks and sand get it.  Detritus is the best coral food....but not if it's locked up in the rocks and on the sand. 😉 

 

So first, get your flow to be the best/strongest it can be.  This might mean you need bigger pumps or more pumps. It could just mean a different flow setup.  But the object is to cure this:

6 hours ago, RickvD said:

I've got some debree here and there

 

Once flow is properly doing its thing, then CUC scavengers will only be responsible for grabbing the incidental things that still make it down to the sand bed.  Should be less frequent, and should not result in "buildup".

 

 

Just some thoughts!

[seabass]

7 hours ago, RickvD said:

So make it vacuum, suck up sand, tighten the tube so the sand falls but not the debree and keep going like that? I got some AIO tubing but that may be a bit to small.

In my experience, playing that dance where the sand only gets sucked up partly, then falls back down, is too hard.  That's why they make those large tubes, to reduce the suction power within the vacuum chamber, allowing the substrate to fall back down versus getting suctioned out.  However, I personally find that works best with gravel or coarse crushed coral.  I've never really got the hang of that with sand.  I've even tried adding a ball valve to help dial in the flow, but the sand just clogged in the choke point.

 

No, I just use the tubing to siphon the debris off of the top of the bed.  Yes, some sand will inevitably come with it.  But whatever sand gets removed, you can just rinse it out and return it back to your tank.  In this case, you're not vacuuming all the way down to the bottom.  That's where stirring up the sand bed comes into play.  It releases the trapped organics (within the bed) to help feed the corals and be removed by your tank's mechanical filtration (filter floss).

 

7 hours ago, RickvD said:

Diatoms are red-ish right? My algae is dark green/light brown.

Diatoms are more brownish golden colored.  Normally the sand won't get green film algae on it; although it can grow on crushed coral.  I'm wondering, is it a sand or crushed coral substrate?  Crushed coral is easier to vacuum, but traps more detritus.  Normally we recommend using a finer grained sand (usually somewhere between 0.5 and 1.5mm like CaribSea Fiji Pink, or between 1 and 2mm like CaribSea Special Grade).

[seabass]

Note: When we discuss the stirring of sand beds, we are referring to stirring shallow sand beds (of about an inch or less, preventing anaerobic zones).  Deep sand beds, which haven't been regularly stirred, should not be disturbed.  Instead, these deep sand beds need good biodiversity living within them, as well as good flow and filtration.  Deep sand beds are not nearly as popular as they once were.

[RickvD]

41 minutes ago, seabass said:

However, I personally find that works best with gravel or coarse crushed coral.

I got coarse crushed 🙂 so that makes it easier then.

 

 

5 hours ago, mcarroll said:

This might mean you need bigger pumps or more pumps. It could just mean a different flow setup.

My pump is definitly strong enough. I’m using the same placement as someone I saw on youtube, not sure if it’s the best. 

[RickvD]

5 hours ago, mcarroll said:

But even more significantly than CUC, wild reefs get LOTS of strong flow.

On another topic someone told me to lower my clowns for flow, but after lowering it the debree started to settle more. 

[seabass]

4 hours ago, RickvD said:

I got coarse crushed 🙂 so that makes it easier then.

Not really.  But it does make it easier to use a standard gravel vac.  From the title I presumed you were dealing with sand.  Most of what you will read will be about sand beds.

 

With crushed coral, you'll need to clean the substrate like you would a freshwater aquarium with gravel.  Your substrate will trap detritus, and is too coarse for many critters to dig through.  It's certainly possible to have a crushed coral substrate; but most people either switch it out for sand, or remove their substrate entirely and leave the bottom bare.