Nano reef cycle

[RickvD]

Hello everyone,

 

My tank has been cycling for more then 2 weeks now and I’ve added life bacteria and some food once a week.

 

I’m starting to get some algea but nothing crazy. Now I was hoping to add some fish in a few days but my parameters still worry me.

 

If I do a big water change, will my tank be ready on Tuesday?

 

Nitrite: maximum which is 4

Nitrate: between maximum and 75

Ammonia: 0 or zo close to 0 it can’t be tested.

 

[seabass]

9 hours ago, RickvD said:

If I do a big water change, will my tank be ready on Tuesday?

More than likely yes.  But there is a lot that we don't know, like:

• Is your source water nitrate-free?
• Did you start with live rock or dry rock?
• How many and what type of fish?
• Do you plan to add fish one at a time or all at once?
• What brand of nitrifying bacteria did you use?
• What size tank is it?
• What are the plans for this tank (will this be a reef tank, or fish only w/ live rock)?
• Do you have any non-bacterial life in there already (like snails or crabs)?
• Also, a picture can provide a lot of information.

The presence of nitrate (if your tank started off free of nitrate) would indicate that ammonia has been broken down.  Ideally nitrite should be undetectable also; but nitrite isn't very toxic, so it's more of an indicator. A fully established cycle typically doesn't read any nitrite.

 

If nitrate is around 75 ppm, A 90% water change would drop nitrate to 7.5 ppm (which is a good level).  With rocks and sand in your tank, that would involve replacing all of your water.  Try removing any organic matter (like broken down food and algae) when you are changing the water.

 

With a bit of algae popping up, after the water change I'd probably add a cleanup crew before adding fish.  This also gives the rock more time underwater to mature before adding fish.  Then I'd probably wait another week before adding fish.  And if possible, I'd only add one fish at a time (ideally already quarantined for at least a month to help prevent the introduction of disease and/or parasites).  Introducing fish slowly allows the biofilter time to adjust to the new bio-load.

[RickvD]

12 minutes ago, seabass said:

• Is your source water nitrate-free?
• Did you start with live rock or dry rock?
• How many and what type of fish?
• Do you plan to add fish one at a time or all at once?
• What brand of nitrifying bacteria did you use?
• What size tank is it?
• What are the plans for this tank (will this be a reef tank, or fish only w/ live rock)?
• Do you have any non-bacterial life in there already (like snails or crabs)?
• Also, a picture can provide a lot of information.

I’m currently using salt water from the Dutch ocean. I bought a few jerrycans at my lfs. For water changes I’m using Rodi water with red sea blue bucket.

 

My stocking plans is a pair of clowns, a cuc and after a few months some corals, so nothing to crazy. The bacteria is a Dutch brand which I think is only availlable in the Netherlands. The tank is a Waterbox Peninsula 15. Also there is not nearly enough algea yet for a cuc. I’m currently on my phone so I don’t have a picture, but I have a journal where the tank can be seen. I was hoping I could get a pair of clowns on Tuesday as I will have a few days without work.

 

- Edit -

I made a few changes to the tank like a lid and a temperature controller so I will be updating the journal later today.

[seabass]

I see.  That's about as small of a tank as I'd go with a pair of Occellaris clownfish (and I probably wouldn't add any other fish).  If they are juveniles, make sure that one is notably larger than the other.  if one is an adult, the other should be a much smaller juvenile.

[RickvD]

18 minutes ago, seabass said:

I see.  That's about as small of a tank as I'd go with a pair of Occellaris clownfish (and I probably wouldn't add any other fish).  If they are juveniles, make sure that one is notably larger than the other.  if one is an adult, the other should be a much smaller juvenile.

Alright. I wasn’t really planning on adding more so thats good. But do you think I can add them on tuesday or is it best to wait longer.

[seabass]

There are a few variables, so there's no absolute.  But from what you've written, and if the nitrifying bacteria culture was good, then the bacteria has had time to establish on the hard surfaces in your tank (including the rock), and the presence of nitrate indicates there is a working biofilter.  The question being, is there enough bacteria to support the proposed new bio-load?  Like I said before, more than likely yes.  But I'd also change out all of the water beforehand to reduce nitrate (and nitrite, plus excess organics).

 

54 minutes ago, RickvD said:

there is not nearly enough algea yet for a cuc

That depends if they are carnivores (like nassarius snails), omnivores (like blue leg hermit crabs or cerith snails), or herbivores (like astraea snails).  I agree, you wouldn't want to add too many herbivores until they have a food source which can sustain them; however, it's not too early to have a cleanup crew.

[RickvD]

40 minutes ago, seabass said:

There are a few variables, so there's no absolute.  But from what you've written, and if the nitrifying bacteria culture was good, then the bacteria has had time to establish on the hard surfaces in your tank (including the rock), and the presence of nitrate indicates there is a working biofilter.  The question being, is there enough bacteria to support the proposed new bio-load?  Like I said before, more than likely yes.  But I'd also change out all of the water beforehand to reduce nitrate (and nitrite, plus excess organics).

 

That depends if they are carnivores (like nassarius snails), omnivores (like blue leg hermit crabs or cerith snails), or herbivores (like astraea snails).  I agree, you wouldn't want to add too many herbivores until they have a food source which can sustain them; however, it's not too early to have a cleanup crew.

 

Alright thanks. My original plan was add a pair of clownfish, wait 2 weeks and then add half of the cuc, then 2 weeks later the other half to make sure there is enough for them to do without letting the tank get too dirty. I still got a few jerrycans full of salt water so I can do an easy water change after work. Should I test right after, or wait a day before retesting the parameters?

 

If I do add some of a cuc a bit earlier, would I need to feed them extra? I got sinking pellets, but they are so small I'm not sure the cuc will be able to find it. My plan for a cuc was something in the lines of 2 hermit, 2 shrimp and 3 snails or something like that. 

 

[seabass]

1 hour ago, RickvD said:

Should I test right after, or wait a day before retesting the parameters?

The change in parameters should be pretty almost immediate.  Although I might wait an hour or so just to be on the safe side.

 

1 hour ago, RickvD said:

If I do add some of a cuc a bit earlier, would I need to feed them extra? I got sinking pellets, but they are so small I'm not sure the cuc will be able to find it. My plan for a cuc was something in the lines of 2 hermit, 2 shrimp and 3 snails or something like that.

Without fish in the tank, you should feed the carnivores and omnivores a little once each week.  With fish in the tank, they should be able to scavenge some leftover food; but don't intentionally overfeed your fish.  You could feed the cleanup crew a little once a week if you feel they aren't getting enough food.

 

Those pellets should be fine for the cleanup crew (feed sparingly).  You can keep a couple of shrimp if you wish.  They will eat fish food that lands on the sand and rocks, but I wouldn't consider them part of the cleanup crew.  Shrimp are typically more sensitive than fish and will add to the bio-load.

[RickvD]

19 minutes ago, seabass said:

The change in parameters should be pretty almost immediate.  Although I might wait an hour or so just to be on the safe side.

Alright thanks good to know.

 

I really appreciate all the help I just got 2 more questions.

 

1: For the bio load it's probably best to chose fish or cleanup crew, and not do them both at the same time right?

2: How big should my crew be? Like is there a guideline for a recommended size of how many cleaners I should have?

[seabass]

5 minutes ago, RickvD said:

For the bio load it's probably best to chose fish or cleanup crew, and not do them both at the same time right?

The cleanup crew won't add a lot to the bio-load; usually we just discount it.  So I wouldn't feel that you need to wait on adding a few smaller snails or crabs.

 

8 minutes ago, RickvD said:

How big should my crew be? Like is there a guideline for a recommended size of how many cleaners I should have?

That's a hard question to answer; recommendations are often all over the board.  Plus, it depends on how much you feed.  You'll add more herbivores (over time) as needed to control algae.  You don't want to intentionally starve any of your tank inhabitants, so don't go too crazy at first.  To determine the number of cleanup crew members for a typically stocked tank, you might take your tank size in gallons divided by two.

 

So for your 15 gallon tank, you (eventually) might get 7 critters.  I'd build up to that as needed.  Plus, there's nothing that magical about this number, so you might end up with less, or more as needed.

 

[RickvD]

4 minutes ago, seabass said:

The cleanup crew won't add a lot to the bio-load; usually we just discount it.  So I wouldn't feel that you need to wait on adding a few smaller snails or crabs.

Alright great. You have been an amazing help. For now it will be 2 clown, a turbo brunneus and a red hermit. I also want a snail that digs through the sand, but that is one that has to wait a little bit until the sand is dirty enough to clean.

[seabass]

31 minutes ago, RickvD said:

I also want a snail that digs through the sand, but that is one that has to wait a little bit until the sand is dirty enough to clean.

If it's a nassarius snail, it'll eat any food that lands on the sand bed.  Your clownfish typically won't eat anything off of the bottom.  You could certainly get one of those if you'd like.

[RickvD]

2 hours ago, seabass said:

If it's a nassarius snail, it'll eat any food that lands on the sand bed.  Your clownfish typically won't eat anything off of the bottom.  You could certainly get one of those if you'd like.

Great! Added that one to the list as well. Think this crew will work fine for a while.

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, RickvD said:

My original plan was add a pair of clownfish, wait 2 weeks and then add half of the cuc, then 2 weeks later the other half to make sure there is enough for them to do without letting the tank get too dirty.

Consider a different stocking order that doesn't create such a large surge in nutrients up front at the beginning.

 

Starting with CUC and/or corals is a better beginning.  But you have to be gradual.  

 

Just add a hermit crab to begin with.  If the rock is already TOO CLEAN, you can feed him a little.  Otherwise, he's VERY likely to find a meal on his own.  

 

After a week or two, add another CUC member or maybe a coral, depending on your confort level with them.  

 

Continue adding something new every week or two, but try to only add one thing at a time so you have a chance to see any impact to the system that might require any kind of adjustment from you.  

 

End with the fish, and I would add them one at a time with a week or two (at least) in between as well.

 

It should take several weeks for you to complete the whole routine, and the ammonia should never spike since you won't exceed the tank's carrying capacity at any time.

 

Without that big ammonia surge at the beginning, algae should never get an unfair head start on anything like it does in many new tanks.  

 

Creating that big ammonia surge before you have anything else growing on the rocks and before your CUC is in place is "normal"....but it's also one of the main reasons that folks get out of control algae blooms and other problems.  

 

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