Corals losing color and browning

[Thaney85]

First time post here but I am kind of at a loss. Tank has been running for about 10months and in the last month I have had a green hair algae outbreak and I noticed initially my green monti cap starting to brown and now it’s bleaching, also a zoa that has basically just disappeared . i have 2 clowns, and sandsifter goby, royal gramma, and a mandarin. Also have a healthy pod population, 4 snails, 4 blue legged hermits. My setup and parameters are here:

waterbox 25 penn

ai prime 16HD 

nero 3 

tunze skimmer

and using waterbox reef salt

 

parameters

Nitrate 6

Phosphate .16

calcium 350

mag1320

Kh 9.5

alk 8.1

temp 78

 
I have just recently got my nitrates down which is what I thought the original problem was for the browning. Then when I started seeing bleaching I thought maybe It was a lighting issue, which I cut back on( I was using a BRS type of lighting schedule) now I just don’t know. I guess I am just looking for suggestions on what might be the issue or what my next step should be 

 

[mcarroll]

4 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

First time post here but I am kind of at a loss. Tank has been running for about 10months and in the last month I have had a green hair algae outbreak

Is this the first algae growth you've had in the tank, or did it already go though its "ugly phase"?

 

4 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

and I noticed initially my green monti cap starting to brown and now it’s bleaching, also a zoa that has basically just disappeared . i have 2 clowns, and sandsifter goby, royal gramma, and a mandarin. Also have a healthy pod population, 4 snails, 4 blue legged hermits.

What are your snails?   Could be you have no herbivores....or too few.  Hermits are scavengers....so are some snails.

 

4 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

My setup and parameters are here:

waterbox 25 penn

ai prime 16HD 

nero 3 

tunze skimmer

and using waterbox reef salt

 

parameters

Nitrate 6

Phosphate .16

calcium 350

mag1320

Kh 9.5

alk 8.1

temp 78

How stable have those numbers been?   Any changes to the system in the last 10 months?

 

4 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

I have just recently got my nitrates down which is what I thought the original problem was for the browning.

What did you do to lower nitrates?

 

4 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

Then when I started seeing bleaching I thought maybe It was a lighting issue, which I cut back on( I was using a BRS type of lighting schedule)

What does "brs type of lighting schedule" mean??

 

Device settings and online references aren't that helpful in telling us (or you) how much light your corals are getting – do you have a light meter of any kind to take measurements?  Even a free lux meter app is better than nothing....a cheap handheld lux meter is only a few bucks though.

 

4 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

now I just don’t know. I guess I am just looking for suggestions on what might be the issue or what my next step should be 

 

Besides the questions above....is there anything in the tank that shouldn't be, like something metal or stray voltage?

[Thaney85]

So here is the BRS setting for the light, only difference is I brought the white light down to 10% makes the PAR around 60-70 at the sand bed and 150 to 250 mid through the top of the tank using the Photone app on my phone since my LFS doesn’t have a par meter I could rent. Also I used a combo of better mechanical filtration and nopox which got my nitrates down to 1. I couldn’t find any forms of stray voltage and all of the parameters stay very steady. I started adding a small amount of calcium to bring it up aiming for the 420 mark. Also have maybe 7-8 blue leg hermits and 5 astrea snails and a trochus snail

[Reefkid88]

The photone app is not a good form of measurement. I used the same to get a baseline and divided by 8.7 or 8.1 and that gave me an incredibly low par reading which is not even close to accurate. 

 

 With my nanobox retro and 2 t5's it was saying I had 100 par @ full blast 9" under the light. Not even close. 

[Thaney85]

Why divide by 8.7 or 8.1 when it has a PAR setting? I’m genuinely curious 

[Reefkid88]

The lux setting is "closer" and when using the lux vs par setting its about the same(ish). But you have to think how TERRIBLE it is to use our phone camera to even come close to a even remotely true par measurement. 

 

 Its not even worth using. 

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

So here is the BRS setting for the light, only difference is I brought the white light down to 10% makes the PAR around 60-70 at the sand bed and 150 to 250 mid through the top of the tank using the Photone app on my phone since my LFS doesn’t have a par meter I could rent.

Although I'm a fan of light measuring apps, even a low-end handheld lux meter is likely to give you better readings.  (Converting to PAR is not informative...only good for comparisons with other PAR numbers...which is minimally useful.  All you want to know is the intensity.....units do NOT matter.)

 

2 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

Also I used a combo of better mechanical filtration and nopox which got my nitrates down to 1.

Hm.   I would avoid doing that in the future.

 

2 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

I couldn’t find any forms of stray voltage and all of the parameters stay very steady. I started adding a small amount of calcium to bring it up aiming for the 420 mark. Also have maybe 7-8 blue leg hermits and 5 astrea snails and a trochus snail

Not bad then.

 

2 hours ago, Thaney85 said:

As long as the color looks roughly "20,000K" to you, then it should be OK.

 

Consider shutting down the red and green and violet vanity colors..."UV" is pretty optional as well.   The blues do all the "real work".  The whites are there to make the tank look good to YOU....they should be at the minimum intensity level that does that for you.

 

2 hours ago, Reefkid88 said:

The photone app is not a good form of measurement. I used the same to get a baseline and divided by 8.7 or 8.1 and that gave me an incredibly low par reading which is not even close to accurate. 

 

 With my nanobox retro and 2 t5's it was saying I had 100 par @ full blast 9" under the light. Not even close. 

What kind of meter are you using?

 

It would be interesting if you could post some "side by side" comparison readings....your method vs this app.

 

Are you doing the same measurement procedure (same time pod day, same tank location, same sensor angle, etc) on the app as well as whatever else you're using?  Any differences would make comparisons invalid.

 

One thing to consider is that variations in lighting color WILL impact PAR levels at least somewhat.  

 

Another thing is that numbers from two different types of measurements won't necessarily be all that comparable.  Differences don't mean either one is necessarily "right".

[Reefkid88]

Literally just the front camera of my Samsung S21 and the Photone app and PPFD Meter apps. 

 

 Even putting my phone under the light on my counter,put my DIY light 6" above it and 6x Luxeon Rebel royal's and 4 violets at 700mah I was getting 80 "par" which is so far off. But when I turned my white channel (1 ww,1 nw,1 blue,1 cyan,1 mint) it jumped up to 600 "par". So I instantly realized how using a camera which already does terrible with blue lighting and a app to measurement par frol 450 and below is way less than ideal. 

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, Reefkid88 said:

Literally just the front camera of my Samsung S21 and the Photone app and PPFD Meter apps. 

 

 Even putting my phone under the light on my counter,put my DIY light 6" above it and 6x Luxeon Rebel royal's and 4 violets at 700mah

Are you just saying those two apps give different results from each other?

...or are you comparing their results with the published specs on those LED's?

...or do you have a light meter you're comparing with?  

 

If you tell the app to use the other camera, do the results seem better or worse?  

 

Just trying to understand.  👍

 

[Reefkid88]

Roughly about 3-5% difference between apps. 

 

 Well the nanobox retro (duo) should be producing 500+ par and I only get that reading with the white channel. 

 

 I do not,I have been trying to use a par meter locally do I don't have to fork out a ton of money to rent one online and no dice. No,you can only use your front camera from my understanding. You'd think it would let you use the rear with a better camera but then you can't see the results lol I guess is the reasoning. 

[mcarroll]

10 minutes ago, Reefkid88 said:

Roughly about 3-5% difference between apps. 

 

 Well the nanobox retro (duo) should be producing 500+ par and I only get that reading with the white channel. 

That's NanoBox's advertised PAR level?

 

Any idea if they publish how they generate their number?  You'd have to use the same procedure.  Without knowing their procedure, we can at least say it's possible they got their 500 the same way you did.  That could mean the app numbers weren't too far off.

 

10 minutes ago, Reefkid88 said:

 I do not,I have been trying to use a par meter locally do I don't have to fork out a ton of money to rent one online and no dice. No,you can only use your front camera from my understanding. You'd think it would let you use the rear with a better camera but then you can't see the results lol I guess is the reasoning. 

IMO just get a handheld lux meter until you can afford something better.   For reference, I've been using my lux meter for a long time and have never needed a PAR meter so far.  

 

Simple conversions to PAR seem to work well when a comparison has been needed.  50 is the conversion factor for sunlight.   2000 PAR • 50 = 100,000 lux.  That's what you should get measuring a bright sunny day.

 

Reef lights seem to get conversion factors around 60-70, so you can use that if you want, but the mental-math is a little harder. 😉   12,000 lux ÷ 60 = 200 PAR.   12,000 lux ÷ 70 = 171 PAR.     But 12,000 lux ÷ 50 = 240...which is mentally much easier AND which I usually round down to the nearest 50 or 100....so I'd say "200" generically.....which as you can see from the numbers is a pretty reasonable estimation.  When you're setting up your own lights you don't need the conversion at all though.  I just work in lux.

 

You can get a lux meter like my LX-1010B for around $10-15.  ($20-30 on Amazon.ca....still pretty cheap!)

 

 

[Reefkid88]

From Nanobox's par map,he never stated if it was air or water in the tank. I may end up getting a lux meter. I have thought about it many times.

 

Do they mater waterproof ones ? 

[mcarroll]

Yes.  

 

Also, your phone (or lux meter) can be waterproofed via ziplock baggie....that seems to be how most folks do it.
 

Curiosity about it is one thing, but you can also not worry about underwater measurements....all our tanks are about the same +/- a foot or two...not much difference if you're a coral.

 

Where the big differences are (and where a light meter is almost indispensable, IMO) is in lighting setup above the water line.  

 

Some folks use one light.  Some folks use another.  Some folks like spotlights, some not.  Some folks like lights mounted up high, some prefer down low.  Etc.  There can be A LOT of variables above the waterline!!  All of those factors can have a huge impact on the quality of light that reaches the tank.

 

A meter can mostly be used to account for all those variables – which can be done by measuring your lights' output at the waterline, in air.

 

Once your light is correct above the water line, what happens BELOW the waterline is very predictable.  Well-lit looks well-lit.  Shaded is shaded.  Intensity levels at depths below the water line can even be predicted by formula if you want.  You don't need a meter to place individual corals if your light set up is good as described.  👍