Brown colouration on hammer, start of BJD?

[4d-Rock]

Hey all,

I have a hammer which started from one head and has split into 4 after about 9 months or so.  I’ve noticed it being more retracted then normal which I thought may have been related to some rock scrubbing (see algae in pic, I’m low on inverts atm) and re-scaping and messed with the nutrients in the water.
 But this morning before the lights were on and the polyps were more retracted, I took a look at it and noticed brown colouration on some of the flesh.  Is this normal or the start of brown jelly disease?  The brown seems to be a colouration of the flesh and not a covering of anything.  I really hope it’s not but figured I’d ask around in case I should be taking action.

Ill also note that the hammer and frogspawn around it have been unaffected and totally normal. 

Thanks

 

Here’s a picture from almost a month ago when it was just starting to retract more, starting on the right polyps.  Originally I thought it had to do with lower flow from the montipora blocking flow from the return, but hasn’t been improving since modifying that.

[mcarroll]

Hard to say about that specifically, but can you post what your water tests are like?   Seems like something could be "off".

 

Any changes to the tank in the last month or so?

[4d-Rock]

Biggest change is that I removed the GSP arch and is now below the middle arch in the sand.  At the same time I took a scrubber to some of the rock to remove what algae I could.  I also scrubbed some of the GSP that made it to the center arch to kill it off, still some remaining.  here’s the before picture, I don’t have an after pic yet. I’ll take one later tonight.

 

Other than that my Alk has crept up a bit.  I believe you responded to a previous post I had regarding my algae growth and low nutrients.  Phosphates have come up since I’ve been feeding my corals more often, nitrates still undetectable.

Parameters I checked last weekend:

Salinity 35 ppt

Alk 9.2 (had been about 8.4), have reduced my All for reef dosing this week  by 1mL to bring down a bit slowly.  
Nitrate 0

Phosphate 0.089 (Hanna ULR phosphorous checker)

pH 7.8 

Calcium 400

Mag 1360

I plan to go to the nearby city end of next week and plan on picking up some more inverts, Neonitro, and corals.

[mcarroll]

22 minutes ago, 4d-Rock said:

Phosphate 0.089 (Hanna ULR phosphorous checker)

Looks good overall!   Just curious if this is PPB or PPM?

[mcarroll]

27 minutes ago, 4d-Rock said:

Other than that my Alk has crept up a bit.  I believe you responded to a previous post I had regarding my algae growth and low nutrients.  Phosphates have come up since I’ve been feeding my corals more often, nitrates still undetectable.

I may have. 😉  Low P can be a killer, literally....so hopefully you were able to be fairly quick in catching the issue.  👍

[4d-Rock]

It was actually 29ppb Phosphorous which converts to 0.089 ppm Phosphates.

 

My phosphorous hadn’t been 0 for extended periods of time.  But usually around 5-10 ppb. My nitrate I haven’t detected anything since cycling (almost a year ago now).  Im suspect of my Red Sea pro test though. When I go pick up that other stuff I’m also going to grab a Hanna HR Nitrate checker.

[4d-Rock]

Here’s what it looks like right now.  This is about as far as the polyps extend on that hammer for the past few weeks.  The gold hammer and frogspawn are nicely extended though (as far as I know). 
You can also see my hair algae issue is still around.  I haven’t done much manual cleanup lately because of life, but im going to try to do a good prune this weekend with my water change.  Then when im at the shop next week im going to look for a little urchin along with some additional snails.

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, 4d-Rock said:

It was actually 29ppb Phosphorous which converts to 0.089 ppm Phosphates.

No 0.09 is pretty decent as long as that's nice and steady – not returning to (near-)zero at all.

 

5 hours ago, 4d-Rock said:

My phosphorous hadn’t been 0 for extended periods of time.  But usually around 5-10 ppb.

That means PO4 was consistently under 0.03 ppm....which may actually have been zero ppm once margin of error is accounted for.

 

 

Flow has a direct role in nutrient uptake, so if flow was suffering AND PO4 levels were consistently low or near-zero, then this could have been a double-whammy for this coral.

 

I'm sure that if you improved flow it helped....but it could only help so much if PO4 was so restricted for so long.  It was more like you slowed the decline...rather than stopping it.

 

Unless PO4 is already stable close to 0.10 ppm, I would stop relying on food and start dosing phosphate so you can assure that it doesn't trend back to zero (or near-zero) again any time soon.

 

If it's stable around 0.10 ppm, then just maintain what you're doing...make sure everything stays nice, and just give the corals time to recover.

 

But also keep in mind that the effects of the damage from PO4-starvation can be delayed...so some corals might continue to decline due to damage that was already done before you made your corrections.

 

5 hours ago, 4d-Rock said:

My nitrate I haven’t detected anything since cycling (almost a year ago now).  Im suspect of my Red Sea pro test though. When I go pick up that other stuff I’m also going to grab a Hanna HR Nitrate checker.

No need for another kit IMO, unless yours is expired or you're doing it wrong, the results you are getting are accurate enough. 

 

Nitrates being really low is probably what kept things from sliding out of control toward bleaching, etc.  Actually a good thing at the time.

 

4 hours ago, 4d-Rock said:

I don't k now if the photo is tinted in some way, but the green corals all look slightly bleached to me....they seem too bright.  Is it this way in person at all?

 

BTW, was there much algae growing around that coral before you cleaned?

[4d-Rock]

13 hours ago, mcarroll said:

No 0.09 is pretty decent as long as that's nice and steady – not returning to (near-)zero at all.

Cool, I was shooting for around the 0.03-0.1 range and will keep that as a goal.

13 hours ago, mcarroll said:

That means PO4 was consistently under 0.03 ppm....which may actually have been zero ppm once margin of error is accounted for.

Ahh ya I see what you mean, well not much I can do about that now but keep trying to maintain good levels.

My flow I think is decent as well with the upgraded return pump and a Jebao MLW-5 at about 45%.   
Ill consider grabbing a Neophos when I pick up the NeoNitro.

 

My Red Sea Nitrate test kit is getting close to being out anyways so I’ll have to buy a new one in the near future regardless. So might as well upgrade at this point and double check with another brand at the same time.

 

13 hours ago, mcarroll said:

I don't k now if the photo is tinted in some way, but the green corals all look slightly bleached to me....they seem too bright.  Is it this way in person at all?

 

BTW, was there much algae growing around that coral before you cleaned?

I’m using a yellow filter in this picture so it does tint. I’m not experienced enough to really spot minor bleaching, but They don’t look it in person.  

And when I cleaned the algae I didn’t clean much around the hammers as there isn’t much room around them for my scrubber without potential damage. The algae was slightly less than what you see in that first picture.

 

I took some macro pictures last night to try and capture some of the tissue recession and noticed a couple black specks on the flesh. They are pretty small so it’s tough to say if they are a pest.  Though on the right side the the stalk there is something on there. It looks like it has a hard outside so don’t think flatworm?
wondering if I should take it out and give it a dip.  Kinda makes sense if it’s the only thing in the tank looking off

[mcarroll]

That does look a bit flatworm'ish.  Too late for a freshwater dip?  You can probably grab him with a siphon hose if not.  

 

The eggs are another problem.  Look for them and siphon them out too or otherwise take care of them.  I haven't researched much on it yet, but I suspect carnivorous and omnivorous scavengers like bumblebee snails and hermit crabs (and probably other crabs) might clean some of the eggs up as well.

 

On a positive note, those are some nice little Hammer buds growing in around the damage zone!

[mcarroll]

Some folks claim that even amphipods are likely to eat eggs of something like this.  

 

If your cleanup crew is just herbivores (which is usually perfect), you might consider some targeted additions to the team, including micro-cleanup-crew critters like amphipods.

 

👍

[4d-Rock]

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

That does look a bit flatworm'ish.  Too late for a freshwater dip?  You can probably grab him with a siphon hose if not.  

 

The eggs are another problem.  Look for them and siphon them out too or otherwise take care of them.  I haven't researched much on it yet, but I suspect carnivorous and omnivorous scavengers like bumblebee snails and hermit crabs (and probably other crabs) might clean some of the eggs up as well.

 

On a positive note, those are some nice little Hammer buds growing in around the damage zone!

Ya there are 4 buds, one on each side, that started growing a while ago though they seemed to stall out for a few months so I didn’t know if they were just going to die off, but still look like flesh around them so must just be really slow growing. 
 

So I did a decent clean of the tank last night.  Pinched out a good chunk of the long algae and scrubbed some of the rock of algae and the remaining GSP on the top.  Followed by a 25% water change.

While doing that the hammer was closed up and I noticed that thing on the side of it moved and close up.  Almost like a clam.  I pulled it out to dip and no pests fell off, but i pried the outside part of the hard shell off to kill whatever it was in case it has been irritating the hammer.  It is on the side that closes up worst so that’s what I’m hoping is the cause.
Now that it’s back, I’ll give it some time to recover and see how it goes. 
 

I do plan on picking up some pods on my (soon to be very expensive) trip to the LFS.  My CUC consists of 5 hermits, 4 nassarius snails, 2 astrea star snails, 1 tectus snail, a cleaner shrimp, and an emerald crab.  I had more snails but they had died off slowly so it’s time to get the numbers back up and maybe get an urchin if I can find a small one. 
 

Thanks for your time @mcarroll in helping me out, much appreciated

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, 4d-Rock said:

Ya there are 4 buds, one on each side, that started growing a while ago though they seemed to stall out for a few months so I didn’t know if they were just going to die off, but still look like flesh around them so must just be really slow growing. 

That slowdown is prolly because of the flatworm (and anything else "off")....reseources had to get shifted from reproduction and growth to defense and healing.

 

2 hours ago, 4d-Rock said:

I noticed that thing on the side of it moved and close up.  Almost like a clam.  I pulled it out to dip and no pests fell off, but i pried the outside part of the hard shell off to kill whatever it was in case it has been irritating the hammer.

It had a shell???

 

2 hours ago, 4d-Rock said:

My CUC consists of 5 hermits, 4 nassarius snails, 2 astrea star snails, 1 tectus snail, a cleaner shrimp, and an emerald crab.

That is 3 herbivores, 10 scavengers – and one cleaner shrimp who's not a cleanup crew member. 😉 

 

Seems to me you're overloaded on scavengers already....so no more crabs, etc.  

 

IMO, stick with pure herbivore snails for your crew update. 

[4d-Rock]

Ya, just imagine a mini clam with one side fused to the side of the hammer skeleton and the other can flap and open up freely.  
no idea what it was but it’s done now.

 

And ya, snails were the plan.  I used to have more but they’ve slowly reduced in numbers over the past few months and it’s been a while since I’ve been to the city to replenish.