Can I safely remove my bags of Sea Chem Matrix from established 20 gallon tank?

[RemoGaggi]

I've got a 20 gallon IM Fusion that I started nearly 4 years ago and it's running fine.  The live rock has been there from the beginning and it should be plenty for the tank.  Livestock - I have only has 2 clowns, a pistol shrimp, yellow watchman, a sifter star, and a couple of snails and all have been with me for a long time.  When I started the tank 4 yrs ago, I added 2 bags of Sea Chem Matrix to help with the bio filtration and I've just left them in the spare compartment in the back.  I rinse them out at each water change, but I'm thinking I really don't need the sea chem matrix anymore I believe the mesh bags they are in catch a lot of junk.  I think the matrix itself seems to catch a lot of crud too.  (If it matters, I also run filter floss and Chemi-pure Blue).  Since I'd be removing bio media, I'm thinking I don't remove it all at one time, but maybe a portion at a time at each water change until it's all out.  Does this sound ok?  Thanks.

[brandon429]

Yes you can because no reef display is lacking surface area necessitating that extra surface area in the first place. In our cycle control thread we could remove your entire filter and your sandbed all at once and you can add another fish and it still would not recycle

 

The extra surface area we pack in was by training that a reef display might lose ammonia control without it; that's false old cycling science. A set of rocks in the display was all you ever needed. 

[RemoGaggi]

44 minutes ago, brandon429 said:

Yes you can because no reef display is lacking surface area necessitating that extra surface area in the first place. In our cycle control thread we could remove your entire filter and your sandbed all at once and you can add another fish and it still would not recycle

 

The extra surface area we pack in was by training that a reef display might lose ammonia control without it; that's false old cycling science. A set of rocks in the display was all you ever needed. 

Thank you.  

[RemoGaggi]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:52 AM, brandon429 said:

Yes you can because no reef display is lacking surface area necessitating that extra surface area in the first place. In our cycle control thread we could remove your entire filter and your sandbed all at once and you can add another fish and it still would not recycle

 

The extra surface area we pack in was by training that a reef display might lose ammonia control without it; that's false old cycling science. A set of rocks in the display was all you ever needed. 

I removed the 2 bags of Seachem Matrix from the back of my tank yesterday and within a few minutes, the water seemed a LOT clearer.  After I removed the bags, I took the matrix out of the bags and rinsed the media bags and matrix out in a bucket and there was a ton of crud in it.  Previously, I'd rinse out the bags with the media still in it with the old water during a water change, but they sure did still hold a ton of crud.  Thanks again for the info and now it's out of my tank. 

[TheKleinReef]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:52 AM, brandon429 said:

false old cycling science.

wat

 

would love to learn more about this.

 

[brandon429]

It wouldn't do any good for me to type it out it would sound made up

 

So we can use huge links that use other people's tanks as the proof= it's not possible to luck into this much tank control. Poor science would have some deaths reported...100% success means good science in my opinion. 

 

Updated cycling science, to the complete opposite of old cycling science is this thread. Testless reef tank cycling, we use # of days underwater as the meter for completion OR seneye ammonia tests where possible, but we never ever believe anything red sea or api has to say about a cycle. This is me telling any poster the exact date they can add fish vs the old ways of open ended wait + api testing for 30+ days to be ready:

 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-unstick-any-seemingly-stuck-cycle.742202/

 

=reef tank cycles do not stall, that's a sales gimmick from old cycling science to sell us more bacteria tied to the copious use of api and red sea kits

 

once I can build up nano-reef.com examples that fast I'll use resources from here as proof. 

[brandon429]

 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/

Here's the thread that handles reef tank surface area removal without cycling without any testing without any losses. *we are removing entire sandbeds here all at once, plus filter material, and even some of the main rocks if they want... rule = per new cycling science no reef tanks run with too little surface area. I've seen your posts before Kleinreef you have a strong chemistry command we appreciate your feedback on any aspect of changing ways and means in reefing 🙂

 

 

That thread above is fifty pages of the exact same move among tanks: none differ 

 

We are rinsing sandbeds in tap water for all jobs

 

The outcome is completely perfect tank transfers upgrades and a very high degree of invasion fixes. Making sure to not upwell detritus is how we did all that work never testing for ammonia at all. Old cycling science, if polled would 100% in unison agree you can't rinse out a ten thousand dollar sps tank sandbed with tap water, but there it is for pages~

[Tired]

I don't know that I've ever seen much recommendation of filter media as bacterial real estate for reef tanks. Only freshwater tanks, which may or may not benefit from it. The consensus on here sure seems to be "all you need is the live rock".

[TheKleinReef]

is there a page in that thread that says using more is detrimental or is all about it not being necessary to have to much?

[TheKleinReef]

18 minutes ago, Tired said:

I don't know that I've ever seen much recommendation of filter media as bacterial real estate for reef tanks. Only freshwater tanks, which may or may not benefit from it. The consensus on here sure seems to be "all you need is the live rock".

 

I've always wondered if the media trend only took off because of the rise in popularity of minimalist aquascapes, but that's just a anecdotal. I've always used a bag of seachem in my tanks. never had too many issues with it (until this tank, but this isn't cause of seachem)

[brandon429]

No problem in using excess media, the double edged sword is that extra surface area is catchment for waste and must be cleaned and that also fits in here with the opening post. Everyone always uses too much surface area which is why that's secretly a very easy thread to run, whatever they want to remove we can, we're just careful to plan what detritus will do during the job

 

Exposure to clouding waste can kill tanks, but never lack of bacteria 

 

This is my collective opinion based on results and predictability for the jobs in progress

 

 

on last page of sand rinse thread, that guys reef we're transferring is worth probably 3$K or more and we're not going to test anything before or after. I'm doing my best to infer the rules live time off the patterns and outcomes. Only old cycling science has published material; new stuff is wild west unwritten/ but we write it in web posts for sure!

[brandon429]

I fully believe the practice of using biomedia is a carry over from freshwater habits

[TheKleinReef]

could be, but "not having a benefit" isn't the same problem as "having an adverse effect."

personally don't see an issue of media use, unless there's some evidence that shows you can over use/do it like lighting, dosing, GFO, feeding, stocking etc.

[brandon429]

Agreed no harm in using extra media and equally no harm in removing it just the same. It isn't harmful to run 20 bio bricks in any reef tank and it's not harmful to remove them

[brandon429]

Why spend money though on neutral impact surface area becomes the next question

[TheKleinReef]

money seems like an unnecessary rational for arguing against its use . like if too much isn't bad, who cares what people spend money on.

just a weird dynamic, especially since 500mL is like $8 and live rock for an adequate aquascape is.... significantly more than 8 dollars. granted surface area for bacteria isn't the same issue as aquascape design for fish and coral health, the price issue is just lowest on the todem poll when it comes to LR vs media use for purely bacterial colonization.

[brandon429]

Just thought of one time it becomes harmful

 

During power outages 

 

The extra bacteria housed is an extra oxygen tax and waste acid tax/ what aerobes do/ and this collective tax on the system competes against fish (chemical and biological oxygen demands)

 

Given normal running though agreed no harm. Any tank in a power outage prone region will live longer under stress with no sandbed and no extra filtration surface area beyond what's needed. 

 

If colonial aerobes die and then water movement is restored without staunch cleaning irritants get circulated around the system: lysed bacterial cell components.