Another QT tank question…

[azureus]

So I have a 5 gallon for my quarantine tank filled with 4 gallons.. have an air stone instead of a power head because I don’t know of a better option for such a small tank. The bubbles from the air stone are hitting the plexiglass top and collecting at the top as droplets.

 

Mainly wondering if this is a concern? Will the salinity drop / copper ppm decrease from the water hitting the top and potentially drying out? Is this no big deal? Also don’t mind the temp I used warm water to fill tank.
 

Plan for quarantine in case I’m missing something 

1. Add fish to Qt tank predosed at 1ppm 

2. Gradual increase to 2.25-2.5ppm over 7 days 

3. Keep at 2.5ppm for 14 days

4. Transfer to Observation tank for 14 more days 

5. Add to display tank if showing good signs?

Let me know if I’m missing something, and thanks for any tips/ input 

[seabass]

That air stone will make a mess.  Salt creep will be everywhere.  It certainly could affect salinity, and even copper levels.  There are some controllable pumps which can be dialled back enough.  Otherwise, you can even get a small fountain pump instead.

[azureus]

5 hours ago, seabass said:

That air stone will make a mess.  Salt creep will be everywhere.  It certainly could affect salinity, and even copper levels.  There are some controllable pumps which can be dialled back enough.  Otherwise, you can even get a small fountain pump instead.

Okay I will try to find something today at the store 

 

One more thing, when I buy these fish for QT, how should I acclimate ? If it’s predosed at 1.0ppm copper, should I drip acclimate or just float for 20-30 then drop em in?

[seabass]

Here's a very good resource which you should read through:

https://humble.fish/community/index.php?information/

 

As far as the air stone, an open air line makes less of a mess if you want to use air for flow.  People often use sponge filters in these observation tanks (for flow, filtration, bio-media):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ARE98/

[azureus]

3 hours ago, seabass said:

Here's a very good resource which you should read through:

https://humble.fish/community/index.php?information/

 

As far as the air stone, an open air line makes less of a mess if you want to use air for flow.  People often use sponge filters in these observation tanks (for flow, filtration, bio-media):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ARE98/

Can’t believe I didn’t think of just unhooking the air stone lol. Way better that way. Have a Aquaclear 30 power filter otw hopefully that’s a good alternative to the sponge. Thanks for all your help ! 

[mcarroll]

 

On 2/9/2023 at 6:50 PM, azureus said:

So I have a 5 gallon for my quarantine tank

Tank is too small for most saltwater fish.  What are your target fish?

 

On 2/9/2023 at 6:50 PM, azureus said:

A setup this spartan is going to cause stress, even if it were big enough.  

 

I wouldn't keep fish in there for more than a few hours TOPS.

 

A chunk or two of live rock and some fake plants would make a difference.

 

On 2/9/2023 at 6:50 PM, azureus said:

Plan for quarantine in case I’m missing something 

1. Add fish to Qt tank predosed at 1ppm 

2. Gradual increase to 2.25-2.5ppm over 7 days 

3. Keep at 2.5ppm for 14 days

4. Transfer to Observation tank for 14 more days 

5. Add to display tank if showing good signs?

Let me know if I’m missing something, and thanks for any tips/ input 

IMO, unless you have experience doing this before, this method of handling new fish is at least as likely to CAUSE problems as it is to solve any.

 

On 2/10/2023 at 6:22 AM, azureus said:

One more thing, when I buy these fish for QT, how should I acclimate ? If it’s predosed at 1.0ppm copper, should I drip acclimate or just float for 20-30 then drop em in?

If you're buying your fish locally (which you are, from the sound of it), and you have a good supplier, then I don't recommend using the above approach at all.  Just make sure they aren't keeping their fish in copper before the sale.  They need to be in regular, unmedicated seawater if you're going to be interested.  The store needs to use some other way of dealing with disease.  (There are other ways.  Just can't be this one.)

 

Exclude >90% of diseases just by buying really-healthy fish and treating them really well after the sale.  This is virtually bulletproof.  The main downside is that you have to be so picky that sometimes you get no fish when you wanted to get one.   Difficult.  But you can do it!

 

Selecting really healthy fish takes some skill. (What doesn't?)  But nothing superhuman.

 

Here's a list of things to consider when selecting fish, in no particular order:

• Avoid fish with any physical abnormality, such as cloudy eyes* or any other noticeable problem.  These things will probably jump out at you once you spend a little time looking at fish.  Trust your gut.  (*There are a few fish that naturally have cloudy eyes....that was just one example.  Ask the LFS personnel or Google while you're shopping if there are specific questions.)
• Try not to buy any fish that's been in the shop less than a week.
• After two weeks, any fish in the shop that's still looking really good should be a safe bet.
• I really like to be able to watch the fish at the LFS for a week or so before I decide – I stop by as often as I can.  Doesn't always happen that way, but that's my personal preference.
• Ask if the LFS will feed them for you OR if you can stop by during feeding time, in case they feed at a specific time of day.

When you get a fish through your personal screening process and take him home:

• prepare freshwater bath of dechlorinated tap water at a temperature close to tank temperature...a little lower temp. is OK because the LFS bag water is probably a little less.
• move fish from LFS bag to freshwater bath.  Ideally do the moves without netting or removing he fish from water.   If the bath is big enough, it's OK if a little of the LFS's bag water goes into the bath.
• Once the fish has been in the bath for 1-5 minutes, move them to the display tank....again, without a net and without removing them from the water, if possible.

Run a UV and/or micron filter on the display for extra insurance while you're still adding livestock.

 

That's a rough plan, but a good one.

 

Ask if any of the steps raise questions.   👍

[azureus]

5 hours ago, mcarroll said:

 

Tank is too small for most saltwater fish.  What are your target fish?

 

A setup this spartan is going to cause stress, even if it were big enough.  

 

I wouldn't keep fish in there for more than a few hours TOPS.

 

A chunk or two of live rock and some fake plants would make a difference.

 

IMO, unless you have experience doing this before, this method of handling new fish is at least as likely to CAUSE problems as it is to solve any.

 

If you're buying your fish locally (which you are, from the sound of it), and you have a good supplier, then I don't recommend using the above approach at all.  Just make sure they aren't keeping their fish in copper before the sale.  They need to be in regular, unmedicated seawater if you're going to be interested.  The store needs to use some other way of dealing with disease.  (There are other ways.  Just can't be this one.)

 

Exclude >90% of diseases just by buying really-healthy fish and treating them really well after the sale.  This is virtually bulletproof.  The main downside is that you have to be so picky that sometimes you get no fish when you wanted to get one.   Difficult.  But you can do it!

 

Selecting really healthy fish takes some skill. (What doesn't?)  But nothing superhuman.

 

Here's a list of things to consider when selecting fish, in no particular order:

• Avoid fish with any physical abnormality, such as cloudy eyes* or any other noticeable problem.  These things will probably jump out at you once you spend a little time looking at fish.  Trust your gut.  (*There are a few fish that naturally have cloudy eyes....that was just one example.  Ask the LFS personnel or Google while you're shopping if there are specific questions.)
• Try not to buy any fish that's been in the shop less than a week.
• After two weeks, any fish in the shop that's still looking really good should be a safe bet.
• I really like to be able to watch the fish at the LFS for a week or so before I decide – I stop by as often as I can.  Doesn't always happen that way, but that's my personal preference.
• Ask if the LFS will feed them for you OR if you can stop by during feeding time, in case they feed at a specific time of day.

When you get a fish through your personal screening process and take him home:

• prepare freshwater bath of dechlorinated tap water at a temperature close to tank temperature...a little lower temp. is OK because the LFS bag water is probably a little less.
• move fish from LFS bag to freshwater bath.  Ideally do the moves without netting or removing he fish from water.   If the bath is big enough, it's OK if a little of the LFS's bag water goes into the bath.
• Once the fish has been in the bath for 1-5 minutes, move them to the display tank....again, without a net and without removing them from the water, if possible.

Run a UV and/or micron filter on the display for extra insurance while you're still adding livestock.

 

That's a rough plan, but a good one.

 

Ask if any of the steps raise questions.   👍

Hey man…. Yes I’ve tried the freshwater baths and all of that without qt before…. Ended up losing two pairs of clowns because of brookynella… so I decided to QT a pair this time in hopes I was doing it right. But I’ve been having so many problems with Hanna checkers and controlling ammonia it’s just been a disaster.. No one will help me on forums either it really just makes me want to give up…

 

If I put a piece of floss from my display tank would that help with ammonia? My badge is reading “alert” at the moment and I’m wondering if an established piece of floss from the main tank would help seed the qt…

 

I’m super discouraged man I really want these guys to live but I’ve added bottle bac and have bioballs in my power filter and ammonia is still spiking since it’s such a small tank. I just don’t have the money for a bigger tank and new equipment as I’ve already spent so much on meds and equipment already… also need a observation tank for after Qt which I still haven’t bought… how many gallons should that be ? 
 

Please help 

[azureus]

Basically just wondering if I kept them In this setup for 13 more days max, doing water changes predosing with copper, do you think I’d have a chance? I could set up a 10 gallon for observation and get that running while they stay in qt for the remainder of time. 

[seabass]

11 hours ago, azureus said:

If I put a piece of floss from my display tank would that help with ammonia? My badge is reading “alert” at the moment and I’m wondering if an established piece of floss from the main tank would help seed the qt…

Maybe a little depending on how long it's been in use.  Eventually, filter media will colonize bacteria, but it might not be enough surface area to process ammonia from a sizable fish.  You might need more surface area than what's currently available (maybe like that sponge filter which I referenced earlier).

 

Which nitrifying bacteria culture did you use?  Some seem to be more effective than others (like Fritz-Zyme TurboStart 900).  After about five days, the dosed bacteria should colonize on the sponge and other hard surfaces (preventing water changes from removing this bacteria).

 

https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/copper-treatment.17/

 

What fish (and size) do you have in this tank.  If all you have room for is a ten gallon tank, then that would obviously be better.  If you have room for two tanks, you might even  consider using the Tank Transfer Method.

 

https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/tank-transfer-method-all-versions.6800/

[azureus]

6 hours ago, seabass said:

Maybe a little depending on how long it's been in use.  Eventually, filter media will colonize bacteria, but it might not be enough surface area to process ammonia from a sizable fish.  You might need more surface area than what's currently available (maybe like that sponge filter which I referenced earlier).

 

Which nitrifying bacteria culture did you use?  Some seem to be more effective than others (like Fritz-Zyme TurboStart 900).  After about five days, the dosed bacteria should colonize on the sponge and other hard surfaces (preventing water changes from removing this bacteria).

 

https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/copper-treatment.17/

 

What fish (and size) do you have in this tank.  If all you have room for is a ten gallon tank, then that would obviously be better.  If you have room for two tanks, you might even  consider using the Tank Transfer Method.

 

https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/tank-transfer-method-all-versions.6800/

Good to know about floss. I added a medium sized piece last night hoping it would help.

 

I used api QuickStart for the bottle bac, I could get my hands on biospira today if it’s any better..

 

Im quarantining two small clowns. In a perfect world they stay in here no later than the 27th.. then I would move them to a 10 gallon for two more weeks for observation..Is that a crazy wish? 

I’m usually not, but I’m really nervous about water changes in this setup.. I’ve had so many issues with my Hanna checker and I think my new ones working so I’ll play around with it later today. As long as I can get the newly mixed saltwater to 2.5ppm~, I should be good correct? 

[seabass]

I typically hesitate to recommend buying more bottled bacteria; but in this case (where your Ammonia Alert is reporting NH3) it might not be a bad idea.  It's possible that the other bottle was compromised (like by freezing or overheating).

 

With an established biofilter in all three tanks, that's not a crazy wish.  But it seems that your quarantine tank didn't have an adequate biofilter yet.  Clownfish are hardy, so they will likely be alright if the ammonia level doesn't go up any higher.

 

Keep in mind that copper treatments are poisonous.  But fish can usually tolerate higher levels than parasites (that's how copper works).  Also, free ammonia is toxic to fish in high levels.  So this might be a relatively stressful time for these fish.

[mcarroll]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:50 PM, azureus said:

Hey man…. Yes I’ve tried the freshwater baths and all of that without qt before…. Ended up losing two pairs of clowns because of brookynella…

I think I understand, but for the record (as I originally posted) it isn't as simple as "bath instead of QT". 😉 

 

And to the extent possible, you should pick apart what went wrong in that case.  And "what went wrong" can't be "the fish had a disease".  It's never that simple....which is why I disfavor the cookie cutter approach to medicating in QT.  (It's not a bad approach if you're buying fish online where you, as a buyer, are at a total and complete disadvantage in the selection process and where the fish are on the other side of a package delivery service from you.)

 

If you're gonna QT outside your display tank, it should be in a full-fledged fish-only tank – one with simple decorations and a little live rock, and of the correct size for the fish in question.  And it should be for at least a couple weeks, and WITH the help of a UV filter and/or micron filter (eg Marineland's Polisher and Magnum filters).  Same setup works quite well on the display if you have any confidence in the source fish.  Meds should be involved only if you see a fish declining in health....and the med should match the symptom.  There ARE reef safe meds you can get to boost the total efficiency of UV and micron filtration, like those from Ruby Reef.  99% of the time if you have the fish in QT eating well, it will NEVER have a problem....because their immune system gets back up to speed quickly.

 

[geekreef_05]

Dude, 

 

It sounds like you've had a rough start to this hobby. I think help starts with being able to learn more about your history in the hobby and your current tank specs as well as hobby goals. 

 

How long have you been reefing? 

 

What are the specs on your tank? 

- aquarium age, approx dimensions

- water source and salt mix used

- water volume, rock volume 

- filteration

- flow 

- lights

- inhabitants

- any parameters you can tell us about: salinity, temp, ammonia, nitrite, nirtate, calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, phosphate 

- feeding and maintenance cycle. 

 

And what steps did you take when you introduced the clownfish? What were tank parameters at the time? 

 

Providing us this info will allow us to give you more informed and specific answers to your situation. 

 

Hope that helps