Kalkwasser dosing rate estimate help

[CMuentener]

Can anyone help guide me with respect to kalkwasser dosing plan?
 

my current system:

50 gallon corner tank

40 gallon sump tank 

30 lbs rock in the display tank 

30+ lbs rock in the sump 

Sump has refugium, oct 150 skimmer, ATO and a DIY kalkwasser dripper.

 
Tank has been running for about 4-6 months after I upgraded from my original 20 gallon system . 
 

corals:

2x toadstool 

3x finger leather

2x pipe organ 

5 x zoa frags

1x paly gradis

2x acan

1x blaso

1x favia

3x leptastrea

1x maze coral

1x pocillapora

1x pavona 

 

Snails, urchin, pistol shrimp, peppermint shrimp and two clownfish. 

 

I use about 5 gallons of RoDi water weekly in the ATO and do a 10 gallon water change every other week. I’m a light feeder, broadcast every other day.
 

Only recently started to monitor Ca, Alk, pH.

 

Using 2 part ALK and Ca every other day was working fine but I wanted a more automated system.  Last time I checked my water it was the following:

ALK= 9.0

Ca=400

pH=8.2

 

Sorry for the long background story. Here’s my question.

 

I’m currently adding Kalkwasser solution to my tank, dosing at 15 drops every 30 seconds.

 

Can I get some feedback on my plan?

 

My plan is to test every day if my numbers look good No adjusting needed. If my numbers are low I’ll add more 2 part and increase kalkwasser drop rate. If the numbers are high I’ll dilute my kalkwasser with water and re test. Will do a water change if that will help.

Thank You 

[jservedio]

So, if you have your daily usage it's super easy to calculate: https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/KalkContribution.php

 

You can either dose it at 100% saturation using a doser and reactor or run it in your ATO at whatever percentage saturation you need to meet your daily usage. If you do it through the ATO, make sure you check your evaporation as the seasons change since it fluctuates between summer and winter. You can drip it if you want, but it's a pain - way easier through the ATO. If you do it through the ATO, after mixing it in put a lid on and do not touch it - it forms a skin that keeps it from reacting with the air and coming out of solution.

 

I ran my last nano on kalk alone for 6 out of the 10 years it ran and I never had a major issue dosing between .8 and 1.2 dkh/day through the ATO with lots of SPS. Be sure to keep your alkalinity on the low end to keep your pH under control and at reasonable levels once you get above like 0.5dkh/day.

 

My current 50 I've been doing 2-part with for about 2 years now and in switching back to kalk this Christmas for primary dosing since it boosts pH, is way cheaper, and doesn't mess with your salinity!

[CMuentener]

Thank you for the info. I’ll run the numbers through the website calculator. Currently I’m dripping  saturated kalkwasser from a separate container, not via my ATO.   I’m not intending to have a SPS dominated tank. Hopefully the simple kalkwasser drip will be sufficient. 
 

I’m trying to take a conservative approach. 

[jservedio]

My biggest issue when I was dripping it as a supplement to 2-part was controlling how much was being dripped - I never got consistency week over week. Getting a decent volume/drip calculation isn't hard with new tubing, but it changes a LOT over time as the tube and especially the valve starts clogging from the buildup. The amount being dosed drops off and you have to be constantly opening up the drip valve and cleaning it.

 

It's totally doable as a drip, don't get me wrong, but I had way better luck with consistency and far less maintenance over the long term from the ATO and a diaphragm pump to prevent clogging. Doser is the most accurate but most costly since its really high duty for a hobbyist doser so you wear out tubing pretty quickly.

 

Kalk is great and incredibly easy but it's really, really messy compared to two part. That's the biggest factor to plan around.

[mcarroll]

On 11/27/2022 at 6:26 PM, CMuentener said:

Using 2 part ALK and Ca every other day was working fine but I wanted a more automated system.

 

On 11/27/2022 at 8:21 PM, CMuentener said:

I’m trying to take a conservative approach. 

I have to admit I don't understand so far.  

 

What do you mean by automation?

 

How did adding kalkwasser fit in?

[CMuentener]

One if the most common theme I see is that “consistency” is the key for successful reef tanks. I use an ATO to control salinity.  I’m attempting to figure out a gravity drip system to deliver Kalkwasser to my system similar to my Fresh water ATO.    It’s taken a couple versions and some tinkering but I think I’m on track 

[mcarroll]

Kalk tends to clog things up since it's typically used as a REALLY saturated solution.  The chalk in limewater basically WANTS to come out of solution for any and all reasons....clogging valves is apparently a fun one. 😉 

 

Depending on your existing setup, I would consider buying/making/using a Nilsen-style kalk reactor where you pure ATO water gets pushed through a reactor "charged" with kalk powder.  That way it's just an add-on to your ATO and doesn't require any other mechanisms to work.  There is usually a check valve involved to prevent kalkwater from back flowing into the pump (another fun place for chalk to come out of solution) that that can sorta be considered disposable though.  In most setups the check valve still (eventually) gets exposed to kalkwasser and (eventually) clogs up.  (You might do better!)

 

I have used the Tunze 5074 with very good results in the past, BTW.   Excellent design – simpler than most.

 

One thing to know that most reactors don't account for is that stirring is not recommended after you've thoroughly mixed the limewater once.  The risk of stirring is that (more) air gets incorporated into the kalkwasser...which leads to more precipitation and clogging.  The 5074 doesn't really do excessive mixing, though the kalk does get moved around by the flow.

 

Another alternative, if you're willing to add another pump and take up a little extra space, is adding kalk from a so-called "still reservoir" – in some ways an ideal option:  The kalk only gets stirred once.  And the pump style used (peristaltic or similar) eliminates contact with the fluid being dosed....so the clogging problem is practically eliminated.

 

Mixing your kalk powder with vinegar first (kalk+vinegar) is another option that simplifies things.  The mixture is pH-neutral, so almost all of the "problems" associated with kalk are gone.  You're doing a little bit of carbon dosing while you add it, but not at a level that is typically a problem.

 

Links:

http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/

 

I recommend reading both of these thoroughly if you're going to continue using kalkwasser. (If you haven't already.). For more reading, look up anything written on the topic by Randy Holmes Farley or Craig Bingman.  

[jservedio]

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Another alternative, if you're willing to add another pump and take up a little extra space, is adding kalk from a so-called "still reservoir" – in some ways an ideal option:  The kalk only gets stirred once.  And the pump style used (peristaltic or similar) eliminates contact with the fluid being dosed....so the clogging problem is practically eliminated.

If you are doing a still reservoir, you can just do this using your entire ATO reservoir mixed to whatever saturation you need for your daily usage based on your evaporation rate. Using just a diaphragm pump after the reservoir you'll get at least 2-3 years before it needs to be cleaned out so long as you are saturating well under 100% and keep the pickup line about 1/4" off the bottom. Without using a dosing pump, that's probably the most precise and clean way to use Kalk over the long term. You essentially just replace your entire ATO with a still reservoir while being cleaner than a reactor. Obviously not an option if you have a water station or are using the reservoir for multiple tanks, but if you are using a 5g bucket or something, it's pretty much the perfect solution. Basically every time you fill up your ATO reservoir, you just mix in n teaspoons of kalk per your usage, put on the lid and just forget about it until it's empty.

 

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Mixing your kalk powder with vinegar first (kalk+vinegar) is another option that simplifies things.  The mixture is pH-neutral, so almost all of the "problems" associated with kalk are gone.  You're doing a little bit of carbon dosing while you add it, but not at a level that is typically a problem.

This works really well at low levels of dosing and you can get super concentrated calcium acetate that is extremely clean, but IME once your dosing starts getting up there the carbon dose becomes a lot and can make keeping your nutrients up pretty tough.