2.5 issues

[Morpheus77]

So started a 2.5 gallon nano back Jan 2021. Currently have about a 1 lb of LR, and about one inch of LS. Tank did pretty good for the first 5-6 months, added a GSP, and some other type of soft coral, have no idea what it is, sorta forgot. Went through a divorce, and the tank wasn't kept up with like it should, had other priorities at the time. Anyway, I would do WC's but not enough, and I hardly ever checked parameters, maybe salinity. It went through a bit of cyno earlier this year, however I brought down the whites, and it started dying off, but my sand bed still had that decayed layer on top. The other day I checked params and ammonia was .25, and nitrates were 160. So I did about a 90% WC yesterday, and still getting 25 on ammonia this morning and 40 on nitrates. Did another 6 cup WC earlier, but haven't checked parameters yet, want to do another 6 cup change tomorrow and check then. I am running a 30 watt Nicrew LED setup, mostly run blues, with the whites on the lowest setting, and running a small power head for water movement, I have it facing mostly up. I did pull some of the old sand out yesterday and replace it with new sand. So question is, could it be I don't have enough LR maybe? I did install a small 3 gallon HOB filter yesterday, and running activated carbon, not really big enough to squeeze a sponge or purigen in there, so what are yall's thoughts on the ammonia and high nitrates? More WC's? Maybe a bigger HOB filter and run chemical and biological filtration to help clean it up temporarily? I have had success with bigger reefs in the past, but got out of it for about 10 years. I appreciate any input.

[aclman88]

Do you have any fish? What are you using to test ammonia and nitrate?

[Morpheus77]

API. Used the drops and test strips, and both show the same. 

No fish, sorry. Two blue legged crabs, both small, and one cerinth.

[Morpheus77]

Didn't mean to post so many times. Kept refreshing and thought it didn't post. My apologies.

[DevilDuck]

I think the water changes will put you back on track. API test kit in most cases shows .25 ppm ammonia as a false positive. Keep up the small water changes until your nitrates are in below 10 ppm.

 

[Morpheus77]

Was thinking the same. Could the dead cyno and greenish/reddish bacteria that I had on the back glass be causing the high nitrates? I removed the algae when I did the big WC. That's usually a by product of high nitrates though, If I remember correctly. Just trying to get to the root cause.

[seabass]

11 hours ago, Morpheus77 said:

Went through a divorce

Sorry to hear that.  Hope you are in a better head space now.

 

10 hours ago, Morpheus77 said:

The other day I checked params and ammonia was .25, and nitrates were 160.

Nitrates can be exported with water changes (using RO/DI or distilled water).  If you are using tap water, that can be a significant source of nitrate (even if doing water changes).

 

Personally, I don't feel that API's ammonia test kits (reagent drops) give false positives.  I think that it's showing actual low levels of ammonia.  Although, I wouldn't consider these low non-negative results as being a critical problem.  Instead, (for a mature tank) it's usually an alert to a potential issue.  Maybe in your case, a build up of organics due to lack of maintenance.

 

11 hours ago, Morpheus77 said:

So I did about a 90% WC yesterday, and still getting 25 on ammonia this morning and 40 on nitrates.

It's not widely known, but newly mixed saltwater often contains low levels of ammonia due to contaminants in the mix.  So even a large water change might not show the reduction in ammonia that you were expecting.  However, you did see a substantial drop in nitrate.  I'd like to see nitrate below 20 ppm; and water changes are probably the easiest way to achieve this goal.

 

However, going forward, I might stick to 25% volume (or less) water changes to help limit the parameter swings.  Stability is often more important than the actual numbers.

 

11 hours ago, Morpheus77 said:

added a GSP, and some other type of soft coral, have no idea what it is, sorta forgot

There's a good chance that this other soft coral is a leather.  Leather corals are known for their chemical warfare (a way to compete with other corals).  Activated carbon is usually recommended to mitigate these chemicals.

 

11 hours ago, Morpheus77 said:

my sand bed still had that decayed layer on top

Over time, sand beds can become a real problem.  We've been told not to disturb sand beds (largely for keeping deep sand beds which contain anaerobic layers).  Although, for our shallow 1" sand beds, we are often better off keeping it clean.  This can be done by stirring up the bed prior to a water change.  But note, for neglected sand beds, you run the risk of releasing large amounts of organics (which can cause nutrient spikes, including ammonia spikes).

 

6 minutes ago, Morpheus77 said:

Could the dead cyno and greenish/reddish bacteria that I had on the back glass be causing the high nitrates? I removed the algae when I did the big WC. That's usually a by product of high nitrates though, If I remember correctly. Just trying to get to the root cause.

The cyano was probably actually utilizing the nutrients in your tank.  Although, organics tends to be the root cause of cyano, not high nutrients.

 

My Recommendation:

This is just a 2.5 gallon tank.  So it's fairly easy to do a total reset.  Here's how I might accomplish that:

• Unplug your heater so that the temperature comes down closer to room temperature.
• Have three 5 gallon buckets on hand (could be smaller, but 5 gallon buckets are easy to come by and are very convenient).
• Mix up two gallons of new saltwater (matching salinity) in one of the buckets (for temporarily holding your livestock).  Mix up two more gallons of new saltwater to have on hand (we'll discuss this water later).
• Siphon out as much water as you can without disturbing the substrate into the third bucket.  You'll use this water when refilling your tank.  The reasoning behind this is that you don't want to bottom out your nutrient levels, and this will also help reduce the sudden parameter swings.
• Top off the saved tank water with some new saltwater from one of the buckets.  You should have enough water to refill your tank (a bit more than 2 gallons).  Put this aside until you are ready to refill your tank.
• Now transfer all of your livestock (but no sand) into a 5 gallon bucket of newly mixed saltwater.  This will disturb the substrate left in your tank, so you will end up discarding all of the remaining (fouled) tank water.
• Mix up the substrate in your tank to release the organics into the remaining tank water.  Siphon out the remaining (fouled) water, leaving just the sand in your tank.
• Now transfer the sand into the bucket of new saltwater which doesn't contain your livestock.  And clean out your tank and equipment.
• Thoroughly mix up the sand in the bucket to further rinse the sand.  And pour out the cloudy water.
• Now you should have 1) a clean tank, 2) a bucket with your livestock in it, 3) a bucket of rinsed sand, and 4) a bucket of saltwater (part old tank water, and part new saltwater) to refill your tank with.
• Then transfer everything back into your tank.

[Morpheus77]

Wow. You think that's still necessary after the 90% WC Friday, and changing out half the sand bed? Wish I would have done this Friday. But just checked params, and no WC today yet, and it looks like the nitrates are headed in the right direction, however ammonia spiked a bit.

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Morpheus77 said:

Wow. You think that's still necessary

Necessary? Probably not.  But given what you shared with us, that might be what I'd do.  However, we have no pictures to go off of, and we don't really know how well things have been going.  IDK, maybe you're good to go as is, or maybe your tank could benefit from a reboot.

 

It's not the parameters so much as the report of neglect that I was going off of.

[Morpheus77]

No I get it, I appreciate the info. The way you described was better than my idea. Stirring the sand bed and sucking out the particulates, great idea. The other coral isn't a leather, I bought it out of a store in Houston as a frag, just wish I could remember what it was. It's starting to open up a tad, maybe when the water quality gets better, and he gets happier, he will open up and I can get an ID again. You think it would benefit to start dosing calcium and MG once it's right? I remember calcium was a definite when I had a clam back in the day, but do soft corals benefit from this as well?

 

Got a 20 gallon long planned for the near future, looking forward to that project, but I don't feel right moving forward with it, till my nano is happy and going well. The 2.5 has been definitely a challenge, just wish I would have stayed the course and gave it the attention it needed, no telling where it could be by now.

 

On a side note, I think the small HOB filter has helped for sure, its pulled some organics from the water, changed filter today, however, it's just carbon. I went ahead and bit the bullet and bought an azoo palm hob filter, should be in Tues. Plan is to run filter floss, foam pad and maybe a tad of purigen, just to see if it helps. I think I don't have enough LR for a good bio filter, there is one piece I want to sorta make a shelf in between the two, and just haven't found the right piece yet. Only option is to drive an hr and a half to Houston and find that one piece, but it's hard getting what I am looking for, considering the size of tank. So in the mean time, use a good filtration filter until then. What's your thoughts? I posted pics on the other thread, accidentally posted twice. I Will post those pics here as well.

[seabass]

13 minutes ago, Morpheus77 said:

I think I don't have enough LR

Without fish, it's fine.  But if you want more rock, just cycle it in another container before you add it to your tank.

 

15 minutes ago, Morpheus77 said:

when the water quality gets better, and he gets happier, he will open up and I can get an ID again

Maybe a palythoa.

 

16 minutes ago, Morpheus77 said:

You think it would benefit to start dosing calcium and MG once it's right?

Soft corals don't consume a lot of alkalinity, calcium, or magnesium.  Water changes are often enough to replenish what's consumed.  Only dose to replenish, not to elevate.

[seabass]

On 6/4/2022 at 11:24 PM, DevilDuck said:

API test kit in most cases shows .25 ppm ammonia as a false positive.

I'd like to clean this up a little.  The only false positive I've seen from API's ammonia test kit has been from an expired kit.  While a reading of 0.25 ppm isn't necessarily something to worry about, the kit is showing actual total ammonia.  API tends to be a little more sensitive to these lower levels than other like kits.

 

I did a test today on a 40 gallon reef tank which is overfed and houses a breeding pair of clownfish.  This is what I'd expect from a healthy mature reef tank: