New here, back after 12 years… have an old 8g cad aio

[Jimbob2]

Hey all, nice to meet you. I’ve been out of the hobby for the past 12-13 years. I don’t have any tanks set up ATM, but I have an 8g starfire cad laying around. It’s the one with the slide out compartment in the back to hide the heater, Refugium, etc. I can post a picture of it to give an idea of what I’m talking about. No space for a skimmer Idt. I did have an auto top off for it, but can’t remember which brand, it’s collecting dust somewhere. I got out of reefing for a while and have been keeping chameleons(panthers and parsons if anyone’s familiar) and plants. I was originally thinking of turning this 8g tank into a paludarium for vampire crabs, but thought it might be better suited as a little invert marine tank. I have toddlers that’d appreciate it(under supervision), but I’m not sure if I could make it low maintenance and lowISH cost… at least upfront, I’d put $ into it overtime as I bought corals and whatever. I’d want it to be as nice as possible too, I wouldn’t want to cheaply throw it together and have a dull looking tank.

 

For livestock, I’d have to research more, but I was thinking some nice zoas and other softies at first and maybe later on get into the more advanced lps or sps, maybe a clam? I’m not totally sure what these would need outside of great lighting and stable parameters or if they could all cohabitate in a tank of this size. I don’t think I’d keep any fish since I probably won’t have room for a skimmer. Was thinking some sort of cool inverts like shrimp, hermit crabs, maybe any other types of crabs that’d make interesting reef additions? Really open to any suggestions, I love unique looking critters! 
 

After reading a little here, it seems things have changed a bit since I was last in the hobby? I see people don’t want nitrates at 0 now and using chaeto may not be good anymore? 

 

Some of my maintenance concerns are water changes(would need an rodi unit plus a SW reservoir that matches temp/ph for changes right?) and testing parameters(I had a digital ph   monitor, but the rest I think I used salifert… are there any other reliable digital monitors these days for other readings?)
 

Any other major changes to the hobby in the past 10-15 years? Anything I should take into consideration that I may have forgotten? Would love to hear any input/suggestions!

[The Rainy Day Aquarium]

Hanna Checkers are a good, digital way to check parameters (Salifert/Red Sea test kits are still staples in the hobby too though). There has been a lot more development in coral nutrition and types of foods (which is related to not bottoming out nitrates and phosphates) so I’d look into that. Oh, and LED lights are all the rage now. 
 

Welcome back! 

[debbeach13]

Welcome to NR. Yes, we would love to see a picture of the tank. Infact you can also post picture of plants, pets or any other hobby. The members here are extremely helpful and will help you set up the tank every step of the way. Step 1 find the tank. LOL

[Jimbob2]

thank you!

Those Hannah checkers are interesting, didn’t have anything like that back then… are they accurate and easy to use? Seems the calcium one had mixed reviews.

 

So here’s the tank I have, please excuse the junk in it

[Jimbob2]

And for fun as an introduction these are some of my other critters… a few pics of our carnivorous plants, two cats, and a couple chameleons didn’t load, but I think you all get the idea heh.

[debbeach13]

Nice pictures, so colorful. How many chameleons do you have?

[Jimbob2]

2 hours ago, debbeach13 said:

Nice pictures, so colorful. How many chameleons do you have?

Thank you. I’ve had 6, had to rehome the panthers to a friend when we bought a house(smaller home, don’t have space for all of their large enclosures now, plus with toddlers it got to be a little overwhelming at times). My parsons(largest species in the world) lives on a free range of trees in our little office room. 
 

went from knowing nothing about plants and little about insects, to having a pretty good deal of experience with both now. Amazing reptiles and setting up a bio active enclosure has many similarities to a reef IMO.

[Jimbob2]

Any thoughts on the tank? 🙂

[debbeach13]

The tank looks like a sweet little AIO. You can make a media basket to go in chamber one with those pieces of egg crate. I think the comments from the 1st post are a good plan. Starting with softies and zoanthids, some cool inverts and see how it goes. Eventually if you want a small goby or two, they can be very entertaining. 

 I try not to make too many suggestions these days because personally I have cut back on ordering online while shipping is still often delayed resulting in livestock being DOA. Do you know of any local stores that carry saltwater livestock? Another option is to connect with a local reefing club. The members sell coral at a fraction of stores and online vendors. 

[Jimbob2]

Good idea, thank you. We have a few stores that are pretty nice here, I think we have reef clubs too(I’m in Pittsburgh pa). Back when I had this tank set up I had a pistol shrimp and goby among a few other things, but this time around I really want to be careful with the bio load and just focus on some nice corals. 
 

Are refractometers still the best/easiest way to measure salinity? I don’t want water changes/salt mixing to be a huge hassle. Also testing parameters I’d prefer to spend a little more if there is a fast way to do it these days(like those Hannah checkers that were recommended). For water changes, I’d need an rodi system im guessing… I have an old, but nice one from back in the day, but I’m sure I’d have to replace a lot of the stuff on it since it’s been sitting in the basement for years. I also have an undresink drinking water system with multiple stages, but it remineralizes the water so I’m not sure if this would be a good option for mixing salt?

 

If I want to get into more advanced corals down the road, would I need some sort of dosing system? Anything else?

 

if I were to add any fish, would there be a way to support the bio load on a tank this small? It doesn’t look like a skimmer would be an option.
 

 

[A.m.P]

8 gallons is fine with nano gobies, dosing is only needed if you cannot keep up -within reason- through manual dosing or waterchanges (plenty of folks here run impressive jars and nano's off large waterchanges and nothing else), there are small skimmers which could work in that tank or you could make one out of a glass/plastic bottle, sticking with LPS - zoas- softies you'll probably only ever have to worry about dosing nitrate, refractometers work best you'll just need to calibrate them first.
Beautiful chameleons.

[mcarroll]

On 3/3/2022 at 8:35 PM, Jimbob2 said:

For livestock, I’d have to research more, but I was thinking some nice zoas and other softies at first and maybe later on get into the more advanced lps or sps, maybe a clam?

Corals can be fragged at will almost, so they are strangely kinda suited to a small tank.

 

But clams and other stuff I dunno.....consider having a look around at how many other folks are successfully keeping clams in 8 gallon tanks.  Make note of their experience level.  See if you can tell WHY they have been successful....ask them if it's not clear.  (They may not be able to give a reason, or reasons....in which case it's luck.)

 

On 3/3/2022 at 8:35 PM, Jimbob2 said:

I see people don’t want nitrates at 0 now and using chaeto may not be good anymore? 

The idea that you can starve algae has been pretty thoroughly debunked. So most of the things we used to do in that vein may best be avoided.  

 

However, if you just want to grow chaeto because you like chaeto, then that's fine.....but consider that you're growing a plant in a reef that doesn't like plants – you're going to have to direct care toward both of them.  (Algae and coral compete for most of the same space and resources in the wild.)

 

Further, photosynthesis is a little better understood too....and has a strict requirement for phosphates, among other things.  Without it, the photosynthetic machinery breaks down....possibly with mortal results for the coral, depending on other factors.   You'll notice that "more is better" lighting philosophy is long-dead as well.....corals generally need VERY little light to do their thing.....enough light to satisfy their so-called "compensation point" (where they are making enough energy to subsist) is the minimum....around 5000 lux or 100 PAR.....more or less based on the amount of food intake the coral is getting (which is VERY hard to judge from coral to coral).

 

Nitrates, like phosphates, are also essential nutrients....somehow they got into the category of "waste" back in the day.  👍

 

On 3/3/2022 at 8:35 PM, Jimbob2 said:

Some of my maintenance concerns are water changes(would need an rodi unit plus a SW reservoir that matches temp/ph for changes right?) and testing parameters(I had a digital ph   monitor, but the rest I think I used salifert… are there any other reliable digital monitors these days for other readings?)
 

Salifert is still my go-to because of simplicity.   Checkers were nice when we were all gunning for ZEROS since nothing else can test as low....but my phosphates and nitrates have both been literally pegging the meter for the last 2-3 years...2.5ppm+ on PO4 and 50ppm+ on NO3.

 

If you have any colorblindness, they can also make a lot of sense since many of the colors and color transitions can be hard or impossible to read in that circumstance.

 

If you're running that 8 gallon tank, you could easily get by on water from the LFS if setting up an RO system (and all that entails) is too much.  55 gallons is my "cut off" where I say local RO is necessary.

 

On 3/3/2022 at 8:35 PM, Jimbob2 said:

Any other major changes to the hobby in the past 10-15 years? Anything I should take into consideration that I may have forgotten? Would love to hear any input/suggestions!

We've learned an awful lot about fish and fish disease in the last decade or so....it's not all about medicating anymore!!  We're aware of stress from shipping and handling, etc.  I'd suggest taking a look at the Fish section on my blog where I've gathered a number of scientific journal articles on the subject.  They have been an excellent resource!

 

Not all is roses tho....the demise of live rock and advent of what I like to call fear-based reefing are also big factors in lots of new tanks these days.  Folks sell dead base rock as live rock on the regular these days....there's a real cognitive dissonance around it....which would be bad enough for the hobby, but...

 

...dead rock's popularity also helped to usher Dinoflagellates into the hobby as potentially the #1 pest (<- 11,000+ posts and still going strong) of reef tanks these days...many a tank have been ruined.

 

It's an ironic state of things since you can't read any marketing about dead rock without reading about how it's "Safe and pest free".  🙄  Marketing horse**** to sell you dead bio-media in place of live rock.

 

If you got out before LED's came on the scene, then there's that too. 😎. 2 blue LED's per 1 cool white LED was the magic ratio discovered to hit roughly 20,000K color temperature....other color combinations you see are derivative or extra/unneeded.  I do miss seeing my 2x150w Coralife/Radium setup...but I do not miss the running costs.  I discovered I can DIY a whole LED fixture (think I have old threads on that here or on r2r) for around the cost of a new set of bulbs for the same tank....big cost difference.  Most LED emitters have something like a 10 year rated lifespan....vs something like 5000 hours for most high-power light bulbs.  NICE!!!

 

On 3/4/2022 at 3:58 PM, Jimbob2 said:

Those Hannah checkers are interesting, didn’t have anything like that back then… are they accurate and easy to use?

All are accurate...some are actually more precise(≠accuracy) than you can get with Salifert.  (Worth noting that Salifert is obviously very adequate to begin with.)

 

Calcium Checker in particular is complicated IMO to run....many steps, including making one of your own reagents if memory serves.  (I was a beta tester.)   But with practice I found that I got the same result as Salifert and Hach titration-style test kits.

 

The others are easier than the Ca test, but not nearly as easy as Salifert's.....which I think have to be the epitome of simple excellence.  In general I wouldn't call the Checkers "easy to use" relative to the other options....but not impossible to use....and most aren't that hard.  One of the biggest rubs with me is handling the glassware but not getting fingerprints or lint involved with the test reading....it can always be done, but it's always fiddly.

 

On 3/4/2022 at 8:08 PM, Jimbob2 said:

went from knowing nothing about plants and little about insects, to having a pretty good deal of experience with both now. Amazing reptiles and setting up a bio active enclosure has many similarities to a reef IMO.

I inherited a several-year-old Iguana many years ago when the internet was just getting popular and tried to do a similar enclosure for him...but the dearth of information in books and on the internet back then combined with his advanced age/decrepit state limited the amount of success I think.   Any links or other pointers to a good starter resources (eg books) on this front?

 

3 hours ago, Jimbob2 said:

Any thoughts on the tank? 🙂

Nothing wrong with it if the size is still right.

 

I still favor the idea of using the largest tank that you can practically and financially afford – there are many reasons to take this approach.  

 

But if that adds up to 8 gallons for your situation, then it looks like a good tank.  👍

 

I would point out that I don't think Tunze had their nano Reefpacks for sale when you got out...

...with one you can easily make an "all in one" tank out of any plain aquarium AND gain a little bit of display space in the process vs using an "old fashioned" false-wall setup like you have now.  

 

They make them for tanks from 8 gallons ($195) up to about 100+ gallons ($730).

 

I use the big model on my 125 Gallon.  The little one would be right for a little tank like your 8 gallon.

 

Honestly if budget were a bigger concern....I think the filter component is kinda of extra in a reef....I still have my filter component in the tank, but I run it empty all the time.  Mostly I think the skimmer (and ATO on mine) are the best/most useful parts.   Your mileage may vary of course.  😉 "FYI"

 

1 hour ago, Jimbob2 said:

this time around I really want to be careful with the bio load and just focus on some nice corals. 

Some of my (10+ year old) reef's best times have been totally fishless......I've had BOMB coral growth and color then....you'll like it I think.  

 

It's very simple to keep if you're fluent with the dosing for your corals.  If you aren't, then I recommend starting off manually dosing your tank and testing as often as you can to maximize what you can learn about how dosing works and how it impacts the tank.  E.g. testing before and after your dosing; testing water change water AND the tank before and after water changes....etc.

 

If you do add any major bio-load like a fish, I'd suggest something smaller than what you had before...and to wait until the corals are in to add it.  (Corals almost count as negative bio load in my book.)

 

1 hour ago, Jimbob2 said:

Are refractometers still the best/easiest way to measure salinity?

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, Jimbob2 said:

I don’t want water changes/salt mixing to be a huge hassle.

With a tank that small, I'd let the LFS do all your water – easy peasy.

 

If you want to do it yourself, it's worth pointing out that there are lots of half-a**ed-but-popular ways to mix saltwater....like throwing a pump and heater in the bottom of a bucket.  👎  (Airstones in the bottom of a bucket were the only way I tested that was worse.)

 

Instead, do it one of these ways for the best results.....quick mixing, no precipitation, etc.  (More replies below the vids...)

 

1 hour ago, Jimbob2 said:

I have an old, but nice one from back in the day, but I’m sure I’d have to replace a lot of the stuff on it since it’s been sitting in the basement for years.

Clean and disinfect it, replace the filter modules and flow restrictor and it should be almost as good as new. 

 

1 hour ago, Jimbob2 said:

I also have an undresink drinking water system with multiple stages, but it remineralizes the water so I’m not sure if this would be a good option for mixing salt?

I'd run a separate system for the tank IMO....since you have it.   But you should be able to Tee off of the RO water outlet (add a valve too) and run it through a DI chamber for the tank (instead of remineralizing for drinking).   You can usually get an extra canister for $20-$50 or so.

 

1 hour ago, Jimbob2 said:

If I want to get into more advanced corals down the road, would I need some sort of dosing system? Anything else?

Nice, but not necessary.   Jebao is a very inexpensive option that has been working well for years for me if you decide to.

 

Dosing manually is totally doable too though if that seems like a better fit to your situation.  I manually dosed my system for years before I ever got a doser....grew some massive bad--- corals too.

 

Take your choice.

 

1 hour ago, Jimbob2 said:

if I were to add any fish, would there be a way to support the bio load on a tank this small? It doesn’t look like a skimmer would be an option.

Already addressed the fish question earlier....I'd suggest doing without (#1 choice), or doing something smaller than last time.  I don't think you have room for a skimmer....but can you measure those back chamber fairly precisely and post your results?

 

 

[Jimbob2]

Thank you so much! I think the dosing and testing is something I’ll have to get used to. Having toddlers I just don’t want my tank to become a chore over the long term, but I also want to put the work in for it to be nice.

 

That’s disappointing about the live rock issue, back when I was in it there was plenty. Are there still places now to buy some? I’d hate to have to deal with the Dinos issue.

 

Is the premixed saltwater good quality? I’d love to just do that(setting up an rodi for such a small tank seems like overkill), but people used to be concerned that the salinity wasn’t right or that the water used had high tds?

 

id love to go with a larger tank, but since I’m trying to save money and I have this ATM it’s my only option. If I got a larger tank down the road it’d probably be for cephalopods of some sort or a mantis shrimp…. Maybe seahorses even lol.

 

if chaeto isn’t necessary, I wonder if I could grow a mangrove in the back there just for the looks? 
 

So would my tank do well without a skimmer or should I make that a priority to fit in somewhere? Oh and btw when I’m home I’ll measure the dimensions in the back.

 

Also is coral feeding time consuming/expensive? From what I remember, there wasn’t as much of an emphasis on feeding most corals back when I was in the hobby. A lot seems to have changed for these hobbies in a short time. Same thing happened in chameleon keeping, went from heavy misting to mild misting and fogging at night(chameleons obtain hydration primarily through their lungs in the cool humid nights), among many other changes in a short time. It’s cool to see how much we’re learning about all of these creatures.

 

lastly, if you were asking for pointers on setting up a bio active enclosure for a reptile, I could definitely help with that. I like the bio activity book by John Courtney smith from Arcadia. The substrate mix will generally depend on the plants, watering frequency, and the needs of the animal, but in most cases even for large reptiles you can get a cleaner crew to break down waste very fast once established. The aerobic bacteria in the soil also plays a big role in breaking down waste(reminding me of fish tanks). 

[mcarroll]

11 hours ago, Jimbob2 said:

Is the premixed saltwater good quality? I’d love to just do that(setting up an rodi for such a small tank seems like overkill), but people used to be concerned that the salinity wasn’t right or that the water used had high tds?

I'd still have and use ye olde refractometer as well as a portable TDS meter – whether you make your own RODI water/seawater or use someone else's.  👍

 

11 hours ago, Jimbob2 said:

if chaeto isn’t necessary, I wonder if I could grow a mangrove in the back there just for the looks? 

Same caveat applies....you're then taking care of a reef AND a mangrove tree.  Lots of folks do not have luck with them...I haven't really messed with them.  There are folks out there (Julian Sprung most famously) who've hit home runs with mangrove tanks though....so depends on your dedication level I'd guess.  🙂 

 

11 hours ago, Jimbob2 said:

Also is coral feeding time consuming/expensive?

It's something you'll want to minimize if you're aiming for ease and simplicity.  Corals can be primarily photosynthetic, and can be very creative in feeding off of tank leftovers of all kinds....so no regular direct feeding would be suggested in your case, unless you opt for a coral that requires it, such as Sun Coral...which is non-photosynthetic.

 

11 hours ago, Jimbob2 said:

The aerobic bacteria in the soil also plays a big role in breaking down waste(reminding me of fish tanks). 

Definitely!!